In the survey Blizzard sent out, wasn't a single question about the RDF. This is just false information spread by the vocal minority.I started to play on Warmane a few days ago and it proves all the points people keep making for the RDF and disproves every argument against the RDF.Even with the RDF people use the LFG Chat a lot and look for groups to spam random Dungeons or even for walk ins. So you can in fact still play the game completely without the RDF if you wish to. Also most people are nice and I've talked more in the group chat in those few days while doing RDF dungeons, than I did in the last months of TBC Classic. Of course you have an occasional toxic player, but I've also had toxic players in TBC Classic. With the RDF the group can at least choose to kick the player and you get an replacement fast.I've never been the leveling in Dungeons guy, but with the RDF it's so much more enjoyable to level in Dungeons, than just doing quests with horrific drop rates in the old world.If Blizzard won't add the RDF to WotLK, I will just stay at Warmane. If it's a better experience, and even free, why should I pay to spam macros half of my playtime?Greetings friend! Thank you. I absolutely 💯% agree :). However, I take you were part of the folks who got a chance to take the survey? Would explain alot and even render a vast majority of people's opinions/arguments on this thread alone useless lol.
Blizzard could fix this whole thing by just providing one of each server type, PvE, RP-PvP and PvP fresh at pre patch launch - barred from paid boosts and incoming/outgoing transfers indefinitely - and just leave stuff like Dungeon Finder out of those servers specifically.Blizzard has cultivated a userbase that is used to ease of access in WoW.There are people who play WoW with lives that just want to raid log and RMT their gold, use their vacation time for a new expansion launch to grind level cap, etc.There are people who want old school legitimate WoW, although a lot fewer than there were before the boost was announced in TBCC.There are still enough players to fill 3 servers that are void of the microtransactions and more casual raid logging crowd.I personally think paid boosts and paid server transfers are the root of the problem that creates a need for something like LFD, if faction balance and server community weren't constantly being displaced by those factors the overall connections between players on a server would be a lot healthier.A good number of players would roll fresh and do 1 - 80 on brand new servers if they were given a more accurate old school experience, no layers, no boosts, no paid transfers, etc. and there are already plenty of well established servers that are perfectly suitable to more casual players or those attached to their current toons.Just give the vocal minority a place to play and they'll shut up about it and play.
This action destroys the finished game.
Add me to the list of people who was really looking forward to the LFD tool. TBH, it was one of the changes I was most excited about. (Yes, I know it came later in the xpac, but I was kind of hoping it would arrive earlier in Wrath Classic.)Obviously I can't speak for anyone else's experience but my own playing WoW for 15+ years (retail, classic, and even a little bit on third-party servers to get my old-WoW jam on). For what it's worth, here's my background. I tend to have a lot of alts and usually have them spread across several guilds. I also often have an un-guilded alt for those times when I just want some peace and quiet, lol. I've done progression raiding. I've taken a pause in some xpacs that left me playing catch-up and out of sync with the vast majority of other players. I've been in guild leadership and I've been a quiet lurker. I've made friends online, but none that transitioned to real life. I've also brought real world friends to Azeroth. All of this has also been spread across several accounts and multiple realms/servers.I've seen my share of toxicity over the years. Sometimes that's varied by realm a little, but largely it's just part of playing with other, largely anonymous players.(1) I'm of the mind that in games, like life, there will always be some small percentage of toxic folks. Sadly, they have an outsize influence on our experience.(2) I'm not sure I can point to any one game feature that has increased or reduced toxicity a great deal over the years, LFD included. (3) I think, in general, I see a lot less toxicity these days then 10+ years ago. I think we're an older player base (not necessarily older in absolute terms, although that too) and the level of maturity is just a bit higher. There's a lot of gaming nostalgia here and my sense is that the overall toxicity is much, much less than "back in the day."(4) I appreciate that some folks think the current classic system of spamming for groups encourages social interactions, but that has never been my experience. Players look for other players, group up, do the thing, and go on their ways. We are not going to each other's weddings, sharing recipes, and meeting up in Discord. I see about as much "social bonding" in groups as I do toxicity, if I'm being honest. Sure, occasionally I'm in a group with 2-3 RL friends or in-game guildies. They have a preexisting connection and can be a hoot. That said, they're fun to listen to, but they're not looping me into their fun, I'm just at the same party. (5) I alternate between being obsessed with the game (spending too many hours/day playing) and "cutting back" (sneaking in a few hours here and there). (I know, I know... I need therapy.) Even when I'm in an active guild and camped in it all day, there are seldom enough people doing the same thing at the same time to form full groups. Sure, a few groups come together quickly for the current end-game heroics, but otherwise it's hit or miss.(6) There have been periods where I friended lots of folks in-game and tried to manage all that, but it's a chore. And, let's be honest, most of that list was just a tool to speed up finding groups. I knew next to nothing about these people other than knowing they knew their class and weren't jerks. Occasionally someone and I would be "in sync" in the game for a few weeks and we'd do stuff, but then life happens and one or the other of us would fall out of sync. (7) Looking for groups is a CHORE and one I do not relish. All the spamming. All the rushed whispers when someone else is forming a group and hoping you replied before all the other DPS. The waiting, the staring at the chat window. The checking the add-on. Kill a mob. Check the bulletin board. Kill another mob. Stare at trade chat. Get attacked by a pat. QUICKLY REPLY TO GROUP FOR THAT DUNGEON YOU'VE BEEN WAITING FOR. Oh, too late... repeat, repeat, repeat.(8) If you are out-of-sync for any reason--time of day, server pop, leveling, progression, etc.--finding groups is really, really hard. In summary, I think folks against the LFD tool have an exaggerated sense of the social aspects that "might" be ruined and are forgetting how frustrating finding groups can be for many, many people for a variety of reasons. Further, I think with an older player base, the LFD tool is more important than ever. When I think about it, finding groups has consistently been the single biggest pain point in WoW over the years.I've heard some interesting suggestions for some tweaks, but I'm 100% in favor of a robust LFD tool. You don't have to use it, but I will.PS As I wrote that last bit, it occurs to me that the LFD tool pushes all the other options aside, doesn't it? One could argue that makes the point for having it. If there were competitive alternatives, they'd continue to be used. I always check in-guild before jumping in LFD, but then I do and the magic happens.
Found the Wrath baby.Dungeon finder won't make boosting go away, boosting will continue to be much faster than the finder. Even more so if you are lvling a DPS and have to wait in the queue for 30 min a dungeon. And the world would be just as much dead if not more with it since people will just grind out dungeons. But I know you only been exposed to the classic versions of the game so here is some other reasons why its better this way.- Accountability. For example, 4 people cant Queue up and have a pug then Ninja your loot or kick you out. Because if they did on your server then you can hold them accountable but in DF you can't. But that is one of MANY situations.- Friends, I made a lot of friends as a result and there is more incentive to make friends and socialize because you can call on them to help with raids or other content. DF you can't.- "B-but my server is dead!". If your server is dead DF is not gonna make the world any more active, its not gonna make spots in a raiding guild for you or make a new one pop up. It's a band aid for a problem that can only be solved by merging the server or transferring off. - You are able to get a feel for the group with no repercussions. If you see that a tank is in all greens about to tank a heroic then you can dip. Or if they are making bad mistakes when pulling or giving off other signs they do not know what they are doing then you can leave before you get saved. If you leave in DF you are screwed for 30 min. I can go on if you want. I am happy to help you understand the state of the game before you started playing.Greetings!🚨 Classic Andy 🚨 Based on your entire post represented towards one particular individual. You have missed what most posts on this thread have even stated. Do you have to read every response? Nope! You do you of course. However, don't just target one individual in an attempt to solicit an argument in your favor. Do you want to pick on someone more your level? *Cracks knuckles with a cocky grin* "Try me." You are more than welcome to go back a few pages and read my posts alone, feel free to try and poke holes. Though... *chuckles warmly* I doubt in your attempt you will succeed. In fact. Why not save you the trouble and effort of clicking a few pages, shall we? 1: "It's only a band-aid solution." Once again a wash, rinse and repeat/broken-record theme defense against the feature. Do you have anything else you can provide? The measly take-away here is that, YOU, alone think everyone else is ignorant to the fact that it won't fix every issue. Gee, like we don't already know! However, it was already stated MANY times the types of solutions they could implement to fix those problems, which they already have to an extent. Like, merging servers or providing free character transfers across the board 👍Oof-- are you that afraid of 30min difference compared to now? That's rather confusing considering the length it takes dps now to still find a proper group, with or without the feature. Clearly your not paying attention, but that's ok. Comes to no surprise when you only hold favor upon yourself versus taking into account other people's time. Also, within that time frame, you could do multitude of things to pass the time! And not always does the pass time have to consist being inside the game. For me, personally, there were times I'd do a combination of things (as a dps) inside the game and other days I'd tab out, watch a quick flick or catchup on news and then tab back in when the que popped. Of course, everyone else had their take on what they did to pass the time until the que finally popped. Also, if you are tired of dps que times being too lengthy due to your inability to have a shred of patience (I would peg you the type of guy who would leave if the group wiped once lol), you are welcome to join the tanking/healing crowd :)2: "Ninja-looting/accountability" Dang! How many redflags are you going to present in your case? Mind you, each case you've presented thus far has been dismantled/debunked already, so you need to come up with new material to convince the masses. We already covered the fact that Ninja-looters have existed since OG Vanilla and won't slow down, with or without the feature. I will agree that it is hard to hold accountability if the person comes from another server. However, many have already stated that all they had to do to improve the feature and fix those problems is by 'canceling cross-play'. If they merged servers or even let folks transfer over and cut down the amount of servers they have available, it would definitely make the community as a whole tightnit even with the feature. Even if they did not invest on the idea, they still have ways to make it where the person, across server or not, can take accountability for their actions should they choose to be a toxic Ninja. Try again 👍3: "Making friends." <--- Another opinion. Yes, you can make friends without the feature, but there are folks who would agree that they didn't make friends unless they met them in a dungeon. Everyone has made a friend or two in different ways, not necessarily on their own server or manually gathering a group either. Do not base your entire personal experience as what should be considered the overall experience in comparison. People also have friends and a life outside of the game and they have brought them in that way too. Again, friends can be made from all angles, but if you want to be the type to deprive a person the chance to make a quality friend that they may not necessarily meet on their server. Then you are definitely manipulative in an attempt to deprive someone else, not just yourself, the grand opportunity. Yikes...4: "Dead servers.." Alright, now we are just walking in circles again, so I won't repeat myself on this statement.5: "Leaving the group screws you in 30min wait time." ROFL! Goodness, you act like that's the best/only defense against the feature. Please tell me you are joking right? Without the feature, should you choose to leave, you may have to wait HOURS or even days (for some) to even get another group together to complete the run (in the off chance you are even successful enough to complete it to begin with). What is a measly 30min wait time and then re-que? You act like there aren't other methods to pass the time until the restriction is lifted LOL. Maybe take a mental break, watch some funny animal videos, perhaps brush up on procrastinated projects? Become an innovative entrepreneur! Go wash your teeth or spend 5min watching a video on how to better groom yourself. No matter how you look at it, a 30min wait restriction amounts to nothing! Lmao. (I, personally, would not be opposed to the idea of them bumping down the restriction time to 10-15min). Also, in response towards the 'leaving a bad group' bit, that choice reflects entirely on you. Yes, you are bound to que into a crappy group, but even with a decent group (depending on the length of the dungeon) it can still take an extensive amount of time. So no matter what, suffering a penalty until you can find something better is not anything new. Also, have you ever done heroics... like ever? The DF feature still provided requirements that needed to be met before you could even jump into a heroic (like gearscore!).Nevertheless, I've said my peace. You are welcome to take it how you will. I wish you the best of luck and take care! ^_^
Yes, by taking a stance that the pro-LFD group is/was a majority has no basis in fact. Blizzard would not risk losing a majority over something like this. Fact is that companies thrive by catering to the majority. However, I will agree, you are in the majority on this thread.I do not give more examples of those "tired" arguments because, if you have read this far, you already know them. I do not need to waste time repeating them all. Also, I am not trying to invalidate others opinions, I am reacting to their stating those opinions as if they are facts from, as they have asserted, "the majority". If they want to state their opinion, that is fine, but everyone should remember that it's just that, their opinion. I do not try to speak for others, I remember how it was FOR ME, and I like this change. The LFD started out fine, but it quickly devolved. The problems stemmed, and I thought this was clear, from the lack of accountability. When someone can act any way they want and not worry about repercussions, the worst players among us go into a free for all. Same with ninja looting, yes that has been going on for a while, but the worst ones were held accountable by the community. Ninja looting an item or two isn't usually worth never being able to get into a group again. But with LFD, who cares, odds are you'll never see these people again. Again, TOXIC. The LFD tool enabled bad behavior by lack of accountability.I understand that some want LFD and that is fine, but they should remember that there, apparently, were a lot more that didn't want it. Why should the opinions of those against it be invalidated? It's a 2-way street. Best of luck.Greetings!Hello and welcome to my Cinamasins Knock-off. In this segment we are going to cover the extensive amount of SINS we can gather in this post. Shall we count down? What do you predict the punishment to be! Lets dive in!It's rather presumptious of you to think I'm deliberately taking a personal biased stance along-side those Pro-LFG versus those Anti-LFG (Sin 1). It's also bold to presume that Blizzard or any company in general wouldn't intentionally lose its base income on the ultimate of their decisions (Sin 2). You could be right, but let's not forget the Microsoft transaction still taking place and that their ideal strategy could be (how can we screw this up so Microsoft has to get stuck with a broken game and go through the arduous task of picking up the pieces)... oh wait... you have (Sin 3). Presuming you haven't forgotten the deal between Microsoft and ActivisionBlizzard, you have yet to provide a shred of evidence inciting their true intentions of their overall gameplan to cater to the entire community, siding with the neutrality and anticipation of "what may be" when the game launches (Sin 4). Presuming that, I, alone was deliberately invalidating another's opinion (Sin 5), when it's just that 'an opinion' <--- your own words (Sin 6). Targeting one individual because they've had the strongest stance to continuously post on this thread alone and likely saw multiple responses towards other's opinions just to validate your own (Sin 7). Presuming that, I, alone are speaking on behalf of the masses (Sin 8). To reiterate, I'm doing nothing but stating my opinion precise, clear and respectfully applying my response towards those who responded towards my post. I've stated a strong-case, which is undeniable, should you choose to agree or not, that's your opinion/choice and I am not going to go above and beyond to convince you otherwise. Also, on this basis... presuming that someone states their opinions loud and clear, coupled with the multiple posts you've likely seen upon this thread done of my own accord, that you'd think I'm siding entirely against those who are Anti-LFG (Sin 9 + 10). "LFG started fine, but quickly devolved." Can you provide any valid proof of what caused the feature in particular to devolve? Proof that is not a personally biased opinion? No? I didn't think so, especially since you admitted to why you won't provide, even the broken-record theme defensive cases (Sin 11 + 12). I will give you credit for admitting why you wouldn't present the same cases, but the fact that you can't even come up with an new case defense is even more proof that you aren't invested in your own argument (Sin 13). "Lack of accountability." That's not the base problem of the feature and it's already been stated MANY times, from a vast majority, the solutions they could implement to fix that problem. Didn't you just say you weren't going to provide a repeated defense? Stating 'accountability' is a repeated defense (Sin 14). Repetition of toxicity and ninja-looting-- repeated defense against the feature (Sin 15 + 16). You just said you weren't going to repeat, but did so anyway multiple times (Sin 17). Stating that the vast majority should remember there are a decent chunk who didn't want it, is also presuming the vast majority who are Pro-LFG are ignorant against those who are Anti-LFG? (Sin 18) Presuming that those representing Pro-LFG, myself included, is invalidating those against the feature (Sin 19). Can't prove the vast percentage of those who didn't want LFG opposed to those who do, especially admitting to the fact, that on this thread alone, I was apart of the 'majority.' (Sin 20 + 21). You just told someone to not base their opinion, as the opinions they are, on what they perceive as the 'majority voice' and yet continued to imply that those opposed the feature made up the majority (Sin 22). In your own words now-- "Some want LFD, but they should remember that there, apparently, were a lot more that didn't want it." Not only can you not prove that point, you stated this with your own opinion, trying to insinuate it as a genuine fact coupled with the fact that you blatantly stated those Pro-LFG are ignorant about those who are Anti-LFG (Sin 23 + 24 + 25). "I understand and that's fine" You not only admit you had some comprehension for those Pro-LFG but you tried to play it off as 'fine' when it's obvious, from your post alone, it's not fine at all (Sin 26 + 27). 'Apparently' loose term applied, which means you, yourself, are not convinced on the true majority here, otherwise that term wouldn't be needed in that sentence as well as contradicting your previous statements not once but twice! (Sin 28 + 29). It's a two-way street, wish I could agree but actually, when they make a survey it's a three-way street (Sin 30). In your own opinion, you are presuming that, my post alone, is invalidating others simply because I can combat their opinions rather effectively (Sin 31). But I shouldn't take your own opinion, as the opinion, as fact? (Sin 32). In the entire post all you did was make presumptions and insinuated them as incriminating facts (Sin 33). 'Presumptions, repeated defenses and contradictions the entire post!' (Sin 34)Countdown: 34 Sins.Punishment: Vanilla-Classic 2.0 but with DF introduced at the beginning. I've said my peace, we can keep going all day long. I'd love to countdown more sins! Nevertheless, wish you best of luck and hope you had fun!👍
Fantastic decision! Finally a good change!
All of the polls that I can find online show overwhelming support for including dungeon finder in Wrath at some point - by a large margin.MMO-champion https://www.mmo-champion.com/poll.php?pollid=53429&do=showresultsStrawpoll.com has four separate polls created with one having almost 7000 responses.strawpoll.com/polls/jVyGJaER1Z7/resultsstrawpoll.com/polls/40ZmdLQDmga/resultsstrawpoll.com/polls/2ayLWe2JqZ4/resultsstrawpoll.com/polls/xVg7dLePKZr/results
Wow, you got me, I never considered that the Blizzard employees were looking to commit career suicide to make a pointless speed bump for Microsoft...Brilliant retort...Companies operate to make money, employees work there to make money. Employees that sabotage a product, become ex-employees. So I say again, the odds that Blizzard is willing to risk losing the majority over this is slim to none. But hey, there is at 1% that wants it and might do as you suggest to burn the game down in effigy.I did say I wasn't going to repeat my defense, I said I wasn't going to repeat the tired, haggard tropes of the pro-LFD people. I also added further detail into my argument, you can say that my assertions are false, but my assertions are of my memories, (which I stated) unless you can read my memories, this is blatant ignorance.You seem so intent of refuting what I say, yet you are guilty of what you accuse me of. Where is your proof that LFD was a great feature Since it's inception, the sub counts have steadily dropped, it's not the only factor, but it is one of many. Yes, I assume you are for it because your "arguments" all fall in favor of it, especially the ones that will fall in above THIS post. I especially enjoyed your reply completely agreeing with someone that states a false fact about the survey and is apparently ignorant of the fact that there was more than one. And yes, I got the one that asked for demographic information AND asked about features, additions, etc. They asked point blank about the LFD tool, and adding a Wrath specific mount, among other things. Facts about majority vs minority are shown via actions. Blizzard (except maybe the few that want to make everyone lose their jobs) will not sabotage the game and will cater to the majority. I'm sorry that disappoints you and your apparent large ego, but short of Blizzard saying "yeah, we listened to the minority because we wanted to burn the game down"...you are parGreetings!Proof? Did you completely skip the poll-count? Every video I've legit come across talking about DF has, for the most part, admitted to doing a poll for their subscribers. Heck, one of the guys above this post showed even more polls. Each and every one of those polls has showed a significant amount of numbers agreeing they want the feature, opposed to those who didn't. Of course you want to try to push blame onto me for being, as you said... guilty? Guilty of what exactly? For stating my opinions precise and clear? Yup! Guilty for sure then 👍the poll count is irrefutable proof if you ask me, but of course you don't want to ask me because I can point out the flaws in your statements. Nobody likes when they get corrected, that's just human nature (only for those who are egotistical/narcissistic/ignorant). Of course, I, in particular are not a hypocrite. I was the type to grow up with 'owning my faults and admitting when I was wrong.' Seems like the shoe doesn't quite fit in your case *shrugs*"I'm not wrong! Your wrong! Your wrong for trying to tell me I'm wrong!" <-- What a vicious cycle this has become, eh? Yes, my argumentative opinions can seem like I am Pro-LFG (which I am), it was stated multiple times, BUT I can see the points being made by the Anti-LFG crowd. It's annoying for those, such as yourself, opposed to the feature to presume that those, such as myself, for the feature are ignorant to their values. Actually, we understand more than we really want to, at least I do, since I don't speak for the masses. I, personally, would like the best of both worlds, because afterall, creating an MMO (or games in general) can be rather complicated and their player-base feedbacks can only add to the complication all the more. I'd love to see them introduce the game, set up in such a way, where both the Pro-LFG and Anti-LFG get what they want (like making seperate servers for that very purpose). Kill two birds with one stone as they say! This way both sides are happy :)Also, don't presume I was ignorant that there were not more than one survey or more than one who got the survey. It's pretty obvious they sent out a select amount of surveys. If you got to take one of the two surveys and got asked those questions, good for you (I call BS). Still doesn't mean that those who got the survey make up the 'majority' lol. It seems like you want to ignore the fact that the survey questions got leaked... of course you do if it means adding onto your delusional tirade (not surprised). If everyone got a survey and the chance to voice their opinion about the Dungeon Finder feature, then the topics of discussion on this thread would be way different, likely chance that this thread wouldn't even exist. *Shrugs* take it how you will, that's your choice of course :)*Chuckles warmly* I never knew I even had a large ego, funny how those who are stuck with an egotistical/narcissistic mind-set are the type that will push the ideology/guilty conscious on another. "I don't have the ego, you do!" "I'm not the problem, you are!" *Gently pats* if you say so. PS: I'm truly sorry you think that way. Unlike you, I'm not going around saying to every person "Your wrong." It's what you wish to make of it. However, memories can be rather faulty as you age, unless you have near photographic memory. So if your basing experience from past-memories, all the more reason those, myself included, will question it. Also, what amused me the most about your post is the comment about being able to 'read memories.' If that were the case, this topic of discussion would have gone very differently lol! Would you have believed me if I did happen to tell you what your own memories consisted of? Doubtful.Additional: I like how you are demanding people Pro-LFG to provide proof (which they have), but you in support of Anti-LFG can't even provide a shred of it yourself. Where is your proof? Oh wait... you have none. Shocker! (Fake survey claims and reliance on memory is not proof btw-- try again 👍)Nevertheless, I've stated my points as clear as I could. I have my opinions as do you. Wish you the best and have fun :)
who did they ask? i wont be spamming LFG for 2h, i rather dont do dungeons. And the only social thing you will be reading is; 123, buff, rdy, mana, ty for party.