https://strawpoll.com/polls/jVyGJaER1Z760% that want RDF on launch on 5k5 votes, it's the vocal minority that doesn't want it.share on twitter and facebook guys, we need more votes.
I just dont get it, people DONT talk at all these days, its just a waste of time spaming the chat to look for a group.These days people join, do the dungeon and move on, no interaction at all.Was hyped about LFG because its just a better way to do things.As always, #$%^ changes.make class changes so you see new stuff, make content harder, maybe make servers bigger and remove Horde / Alli restrictions so we can play with more people.Its 2022...jesus
Bad change. I have been reading the forums all day and people seem really upset about this and they want the LFD in game. Right know in TBCC we just stare at a bulletin addon which just sucks.I feel like the TBCC LFD "system" right now is so cumbersome. And also I feel like its a choice if you want to be social in a dungeon or not. Does not matter if you press a button and wait for dungeon pop or typing "inv" to the group leader. You choose to be social in game.
LFG being cross realm hurt community aspect. Not LFG. Using the LFG tool for leveling dungeons should be available. Using it for heroic dungeons, nah. There is nothing more frustrating than trying to put together a group for a simple leveling dungeon and getting spammed off the chat in 60 seconds. Having the LFG tool for leveling dungeons (same realm only, cross realm optional when the specified dungeon range is unavailable same realm) is better for all players in that those looking for a group for the more difficult content will find it easier to use the chat systems provided and those looking to just gain some XP in a normal dungeon don't have to deal with the chat spam either.
Are you kidding me? It took us all this time for classic to come out for us to realize we actually need the dungeon finder now and now you remove it. You are completely clueless to what we want.I hated the dungeon finder back in the day, now? Way older and its like the one thing i was looking forward to. I feel like skipping wotlk all together now. This may have been the final nail in the coffin for wow for me.Im finally free.
I would like to formally address this as somebody who will not be utilizing the dungeon finder that much only when my community is sleeping. Over the course of TBC i have been extremely involved in my community and I wouldn't change it for the world. in Vanilla i guild hopped from dying guild to dying guild and an LFG tool would have helped me tremendously. The reality of this situation is that the OVERWHELMING majority of players do not have access to such a community and removing this part of the game is going to impact it negatively no matter which way you look at it. The players that are attempting to convince the blizzard team that this is a good change are either completely delusional or they simply had bad experiences in the past with dungeon finder, and that is going to happen regardless you will never avoid the chance that you get a Chinese person in your dungeon that does not know a damn thing or speak your language for that matter. To put things into simple terms- the people saying this is good for the game are merely speculating that this should FORCE people to be social instead. Dungeon finder does not negatively affect the social aspect of the game whatsoever and i would implore anybody to prove to me that their social community was brought down by dungeon finder, it's actually ridiculous to ponder that thought and what's worse is that blizzard with no knowledge or experience on the subject is taking advice from players who also have no knowledge or experience on the subject. Food for thought: not everybody plays this game for the social aspect in fact there are many players who prefer to be anti-social as is their prerogative. please pay close attention to the emboldened words and read them with optimism please. I expect everybody on this forum claiming this is good for the game to challenge my opinion.
With this statement, you completely invalidated your entire argument. Do you really think that Blizzard sent out surveys, got a response by the "vast majority" to include LDF and decided to go with removing it anyways? If you think so, then you really have no clue how companies work.Regardless, you will likely find that the majority that wanted the LFD removed also want boosting, for money or to gold farmers/bots, stopped. Blizzard made a good step against the AFK booster groups already.The pro-LFD people have the same tired responses. "No one talks in groups anyways"...Well, that includes you. If you're not talking in the group, then you can partially blame yourselves.My argument against LFD was clear, it was toxic and the toxicity only increased as time went on. It wasn't "immersion" or the "social" aspect, it was the loot ninjas and overall tools that frequented it. I played through WoLK originally and remember how bad it got.Like I said in a previous post, how about petitioning Blizzard to combine low pop servers instead of demanding they include something the actual majority found toxic?Greetings friend! Thank you for offering feedback on my post. Suffice to say, the fact that you try to insinuate that I, alone, rendered my own statement invalid is quite silly. In fact, I got a great chuckle from that. Your missing the entire point obviously, since you wish to nitpick at one particular part of my entire post, rather than validating the remainder that provided an extensive amount of detail. I explained myself as precise as one could. To perpetuate the idea that I, as I stated before, merely ignored both parties opinions in favor of one is shameful to assume in the least. As stated, per reminder on your part, that I took my time (hours) or so, reading through the comments posted for both parties. I merely concluded my information based on the "majority." Which both have been hilarious in arguing who was the minority of the group. Let me remind you as well as others, that it was (blizzard's) choice and was not entirely reflected on the community overall. The surveys acted as an outside source, third party decision, to determine which route they wanted to take. They decided for themselves, what they believed to be an alternative route to derive from the course of repetition. Yet, as stated once again, they already repeated their actions the moment (paid-boosts) were introduced as an option when TBC-Classic launched. Also, as per your statement of being exhausted about the same tiring response *coughs.* It would seem both sides are at odds with that point then. However, your only breaching one particular 'response' versus the overall responses, which by comparison, have not been a broken-record theme. Whether you choose to acknowledge that fact, that's on you. Though it comes to no surprise that you would hold your opinions on a pedastal versus acknowledging anyone else's. It's their choice no matter where they choose to spend their past-time or who they remotely communicate with, not for you to decide for them. Do you have anything else you can bring to the table, dear? Because your falling rather flat on your own contradicting statements. It doesn't surprise me that people like you try to invalidate another's opinion by saying the following: "Your opinion is invalid." Then proceed to explain why you and others should devalue that particular opinion. Good try 👍 not buying that act, never have, never will. I want to touch on the subject of toxicity increasing as time went on. Again, that's a personal opinion and everyone has their own take on what is or is not considered 'toxic.' A particular feature is not what caused the toxicity. Do not insinuate the idea that the feature is to blame when it's not. The feature and even the company itself cannot control each and every person's actions/personal opinions. They are merely doing what they can to mitigate the situation in hopes to make everyone or at least as much people they possibly can... happy. Even though we know for a fact that you can't please everyone and nor should they. That's their choice to take those steps, not anyone else to decide for them.Now, from what I can gather about your post. Everyone, either pro or against, can agree that they want to abolish boosts, bots/gold farmers and elitism? Ah, I approached this subject once before about the Gold Farmers, which mind you, existed long before Dungeon Finder was introduced. I, too, have played through the original WoTLK expansion. However, it was never introduced early game (which most of us were hoping), no... it was introduced late-game. You didn't play the entire WoTLK expansion, prior to current release, the entire time with the feature considering how late it was introduced. Yet again, personal opinion. "Ninja looters" another wash, rinse and repeat statement in defense against the feature. Even without the feature you had Ninja-looters. They existed since the beginning of OG Vanilla and they haven't stopped since. Also, who is to say that a person reserving items and getting to pick and choose who gets what (especially out of favoritism or profit), that alone is not considered Ninja-looting/Ninja-prioritizing, hmm? If you think so 👍The mechanics they added in the Dungeon Finder feature was designed to make it fair for others to get a chance to have loot. Not always did people care to listen of course and choose their greed over other's actual needs, but again... a very easy trick you can pick up on and demolish before it gets out of hand. Just a matter of paying attention. You are right about one thing... that both parties are at fault should they choose to engage or not. If they don't want to talk, they shouldn't have to be forced to do so. If they do, they will have their reasons. That's the only thing you were accurate about in your post. You need to try a bit harder if you want to prove a point. Every subject that you chose to nitpick on was easily dismantled. Got anything else to add? I'd love to hear an actual defense that makes sense. Afterall, all I could truly take from that entire post is that you merely added into the giant pot of narcissism and ignorance. *Shakes head with disappointment.* Additional clarification-- I'm the type of person who holds favor to seeing the picture from all angles, not just one-side. I truly want to agree with those who have their take on why the DF feature shouldn't exist. However, none of them provided any defendable/reasonable/respectable case to the table. Each one who has provided a defensive case was easily dismantled/debunked, just like your own. Sorry, but the reality of the truth in this scenario is that people are #Pro-DungeonFinder versus those who are #Anti-DungeonFinder. Numbers speak for themselves. Nevertheless, I wish you best of luck and take care! ^_^
some ididot noob, asking for remove thats why lol, this is the best change ever in wotlk need from start lol not remove what a pathetic decision is?
I just cant imagine going into this comment section and seeing "this was the only thing I was looking forward to in wrath classic. The one thing that I wont see till the last raid tier!" This makes me think you actually didnt play the game and was just afk in the entire time "while in que" which btw you're more than likely going to spend at least 10-20 minutes in que. "Oh but I can do dailies and other *!@# while Im que" Guess what... you can do the very same thing with just a copy paste message in LFG. Also even IF they decided to keep DF in the game... *you wouldnt get it till the last RAID TIER* So why does it matter that you arent getting it in general? By then DF didnt do much other than it was convenient. If thats the only reason you're wanting to revisit wrath, then you dont actually want to play the game.
Bring back the dungeon finder... Was the only reason I was even going to bother with classic at all. Who's idea was this? Based on the comments here this was so out of touch with what players actually wanted.
+ add retail dungeon tool, where people can queue for your instance and you can just inv them with one click+ realise low pop server will have problems independend of wether rdf is in the game, its a seperate problem+ you won't spam instances from 70-80 anyways because if they add rdf they will for sure not add the bonus at the end of the instance+ twink leveling (below lvl 70) is not as important in phase 1, possibly add rdf in later patch+ add high exp penalty when a high level player is in a low level grp (stop boosting)There was always a bigger part of the wow population for ease of ingame mechanics and making the game more casual, see retail where it got us.Just because 60% of people want it, does not mean its good for the game overall.
"If anything, what truly led to the downfall isn't the feature itself, but the community across the board"But if the community was the problem, don't you think these features were added for this community?RDF was introduced in the ICC Patch around one year before cataclysm. I think the developers also share the sediment (right now), that it might should have never been added, which i don't by the way."It's also extremely rude to presume that most people only spammed the DF feature for the bonus loot.", Why is it rude to assume a point you can't fully deny (or prove) and why are you answering as we, can you answer for all people who presumably want dungeon finder? Do you think dungeon finder will get used to that extend in twinking if you remove the bonus exp at the end? But i think its fair, that the bonus does not matter as much on farming badges."The high (exp) penalty you wish to enforce would definitely apply outside of the features mechanics." Would it really? Lets say you would apply a gradient exp loss per distance to instance level / group level average, that applies only after a specific level distance (you mentioned 3, it could be changed to a higher value). Thats of course assumes, that it is not possible that a player can boost on same level (i think of mages). Also this is only distantly connected to dungeon finder, it was just a personal wish for better global chat readability and the devaluation of normal leveling."Low pop servers are going to suffer". Low pop will suffer on other ends too. For example raids, open world events, auction house availability, wintergrasp faction balance, dungeon finder alone won't fix these problems.Also Blizzard might solve this issue together with faction balance, although i think they don't want to merge servers for server identity reasons (brian said something in an interview)"Also, for those who think the LFG Bulletin Board addon proves a point. It does not". I never mentioned LFG Bulletin Board. Take a look at the retail dungeon tool, you create your group and players can queue with one click. You get their request and can accept it (by one click) and they get invited. Is it more anti social than bulletin board? yes, but it fits the spot in the middle.Heroics are super easy, i feel like invite toxicity also increases with incremental difficulty (obviously on average). There will be more toxicity by anonymous players (from another server) at this point. On private servers groups would just kick you before bosses or if you did not speak their language lol. This could obviously be solved if the devs would be as active with banning toxic behaviour in dungeons as they do with inactivty in bgs. But bots in open world farming teaches us they only might care."Also, if your adamantly against the feature, your welcome to try other mmo's or single player games" kekw as if you have the authority, what will be in and who can play your game.On a more serious note: i don't think the dungeon finder per se is bad, but it should come in a later patch. Many of the problems you list are problems that need to be solved outside of dungeon finder. The ease of access and comfortability of the dungeon finder is undeniable and i get it, that it is super easy to just click a button and farm instances with your twink for exp or with your main for badges, but it does not provide a sufficient solution to low pop / faction balance problems in my opinion and it helps the anonymization of the game, to the point where all the players gang up in dala and just queue there and don't even leave the city (see private servers).
I’m personally against an auto dungeon finder addOn, but only for the instant dungeon teleport, and cross realm play. Everything else is either something that we already have in the current iteration of dungeon finder / LFG addOns, or is an enhancement of them, which is great! If blizzard could implement everything in the Wrath dungeon finder minus the X-realm play & teleport, I think it would solve most issues. The pro-dungeon finder group will be ecstatic to be able to easily and quickly form a dungeon group, eliminating the tediousness of spamming Trade or LFG chat, where the bots and boosters thrive. This change alone will save up to an hour of waiting, so the 30 year old group (myself included), who don’t have the endless time to play the game when we were in our teens, can more easily squeeze in a dungeon to our already dwindling free time! Additionally, having the extra customization of roles, dungeon difficulty, and a built-in reward skips a step of flying around your major city to pick up a daily. There’s not really any social interaction to flying around Shattrath today, it’s not world pvp, no monsters… so that should be okay! On the other hand, the anti-DF crowd gets the real thing they want: Single realm play, and travel time to the dungeon. While this does increase logistics and traveling time, which can hurt the dads out there who only have a few hours at a time, it does encourage certain aspects of the game that players enjoy, namely travel adventures. Things such as random monster encounters, helping that lost party member, engaging in a surprise world PvP ambush, fighting at the summoning stone, etc. This clearly isn’t fun for some, of course, who see it as just tedious, annoying, unnecessary, or all of the above. Still, it is a current aspect of classic so far, and with many, many people who love world PvP finding it more and more difficult, this is a nice bonus to them, and I still meet people leveling in zones / dungeons who are having an absolute blast, chatting, role playing, killing horde… it’s very refreshing vs an all business attitude. As for the cross realm play, that definitely would help speed up joining group times, but then it kinda ruins the social aspect. Like, even if you did talk to these players, you likely won’t ever see them again, so the concept of forming a social bonds and playing together is moot - albeit, could maybe make a battle.net friend! =) The real issue here with dropping cross realm play is the low pop servers, as they will probably spend just as much time in a DF queue as they would spamming trade chat, so cross realm play actually benefits them. However, this is more on blizzard for not balancing servers than a DF tool inclusion or exclusion issue imo. If blizzard balanced, there would be plenty looking to party up! All in all, I think a blend of both ideologies can be had. Keep the DF tool in game, just remove the cross realm and instant dungeon teleport features. Let people wander to the dungeon, have their mini adventures, socialize, whatever, but let them be able to easily queue and find a party with the DF tool so they don’t have to spam chats in a major city instead of questing. I see it as a win-win. It’s not perfect, but you can’t really fully appease both sides. Just find a nice balance!
1: But if the community was the problem, don't you think these features were added for this community? No, not necessarily. The community as a whole can pose problems that even a collective source can't always resolve. The feature was not added for the community, it was added per-development of their game. Most MMORPG's tend to have a dungeon finding system. They were merely adding to the course, primarily on their decisions alone (not because of the overall community they cater to). Regardless of what they choose to add, take away or fix, the feedback can be positive or negative. It's their choice if they wish to mitigate the situation by any means. In this case, with the removal of the DF feature, they are speculating this to be a massive draw or hindrance towards their personal decision (which again can be positive or negative). What do most companies listen to the most? Normally... when their pockets take a hit, but I digress.2: Why is it rude to assume a point you can't fully deny (or prove) and why are you answering as we, can you answer for all people who presumably want dungeon finder? While I cannot fully deny or prove, nor am I answering for every individual on the planet, what I can say is this-- it's rude to presume that the main reason most utilized the feature was because of the reward they implemented. Again, that's not necessarily the case. It's a catch 22 situation as there are many who can agree the bonus would be the reason and many, like me, who didn't do it for the bonus, but rather the journey and how fun it was! Just like you have people who specifically play because they enjoy Raiding or Pvping, there are those who also like doing nothing but Dungeon crawl. You can take it how you will :)3: "The high (exp) penalty you wish to enforce would definitely apply outside of the features mechanics." Would it really? While I certainly see the point your trying to get across. The fact of the matter is that it really is only something that can be an outside source situation. The DF feature had it set up when you hit a certain level, you had a level range in which the amount of times you could keep running that dungeon before you out-level it. It would make zero sense to add penalty towards those who run the specified dungeon in the level-range they established to complete it. Which was generally a 5 to 10 level difference. Now! Should they form the group manually and a level 70 or so brings in a level 30 to boost. Yes, right there would be a prime example to utilize the high (exp) penalty, since the sheer level gap makes that prominent. That way the need for paid mage/pally boosts would be completely eradicated (for the most part). It would at least mitigate (even if not completely abolish) the need to pay for general boosting. I personally want to know why most aren't taking into consideration friends taking in lower-level friends in for free boost runs, idk why every presumes it's always a paid situation, when it's not. (Of course that would only anger those who do such a thing even more). 4: "Low pop servers are going to suffer". Low pop will suffer on other ends too. For example raids, open world events, auction house availability, wintergrasp faction balance, dungeon finder alone won't fix these problems. Thank you for providing unnecessary examples that most low-pop individuals already know. However, those who suffer those examples regardless of a specified feature can easily be corrected should they choose to merge servers or at least give low-pop players the chance to move characters to a higher populated server for free. But of course they don't want to fully invest on the idea because that means it cuts into the profitized server transfers they offer. 5: "Also, for those who think the LFG Bulletin Board addon proves a point. It does not". I never mentioned LFG Bulletin Board. Take a look at the retail dungeon tool, you create your group and players can queue with one click. You get their request and can accept it (by one click) and they get invited. Is it more anti social than bulletin board? yes, but it fits the spot in the middle. Yes, I'm well aware that you did not mention the addon. I never said you did. I was touching on the subject because people felt the need to validate the addon's functions in comparison to the DF features functions. Both serve almost a similar purpose, but if you truly believe spamming "LFM 1 tank + 1 heal + 2 dps (this random loot on reserve)." Is socializing? Well, that's clearly an opinion. The DF feature was less social about that, no denying, but the whole point was to be (maybe) social inside the dungeon. Again, it's wrong to try to force people to socialize if they don't want to. Yes, that can be a personal choice, but everyone has the right to engage how they want and play how they want-- "As if you have the authority, what will be in and who can play your game." Not only do your own words apply in this scenario, the sheer hypocrisy to presume the entire game would be better without certain aspects/features is this circle of ideology. Idk why you want to keep walking in circles, but to each own of course 👍6: Heroics are super easy, i feel like invite toxicity also increases with incremental difficulty (obviously on average). There will be more toxicity by anonymous players (from another server) at this point. On private servers groups would just kick you before bosses or if you did not speak their language lol. This could obviously be solved if the devs would be as active with banning toxic behaviour in dungeons as they do with inactivty in bgs. But bots in open world farming teaches us they only might care. Ah, the subject of toxicity once again. My dear, if you really are against dealing with any type of toxicity (found across the entire internet alone). You may as well stop being on the internet or playing any MMO in general. Even FF14 has its share of toxicity, the difference is how well-rounded its community is in comparison to WoW's community as a whole. I played FF14 and was hilarious to point out typical toxic behavior that was sourced from WoW. The toxicity isn't going to vanish just because you take away certain aspects of the game, its a pipe dream sadly. Toxic is toxic no matter where the source. Also, no... you can't always account for other players actions/opinions, but rather than being salty/butt-hurt, you learn to brush it off the shoulder and move on. Of course if you want to spend most of your life being miserable, that's a personal choice that has zero reflection on others :) Nevertheless, I've said my peace. Take it how you wish. I wish you the best and take care!