Holy Paladin Hero Talent Showdown in The War Within - Herald of the Sun vs. Lightsmith

Posted 2024/08/13 at 2:37 PM by HolyClarius

Not sure what Hero Talents to play for your spec in The War Within? Check out all the released articles in the 'Hero Talent Showdown' series:
Hero Talent Showdowns in The War Within
Blood DK
Frost DK
Unholy DK
Havoc DH
Vengeance DH
Balance Druid

Feral Druid
Guardian Druid
Restoration Druid
Augmentation Evoker
Devastation Evoker
Preservation Evoker
Beast Mastery Hunter
Marksmanship Hunter
Survival Hunter
Arcane Mage
Fire Mage
Frost Mage
Brewmaster Monk
Mistweaver Monk
Windwalker Monk
Holy Paladin
Protection Paladin
Retribution Paladin
Discipline Priest
Holy Priest
Shadow Priest
Assassination Rogue
Outlaw Rogue
Subtlety Rogue
Elemental Shaman
Enhancement Shaman
Restoration Shaman
Affliction Warlock
Demonology Warlock
Destruction Warlock
Arms Warrior
Fury Warrior
Protection Warrior

For more information on Hero Talents coming in the War Within, check out our Hero Talents Overview.

The War Within Hero Talents Overview

Holy Paladin in the War WithinHoly InfusionHero Talent Showdown: Herald of the Sun vs. LightsmithDawnlightEternal FlameAvenging WrathSun's AvatarDawnlightHoly BulwarkSacred WeaponSacred Weapon Herald of the Sun

Strengths

Weaknesses

Avenging WrathAwakeningSun's AvatarDawnlightHoly PrismAvenging Wrath Lightsmith

Strengths

Weaknesses

Sacred WeaponWhat's Changed?Herald of the Sunfirst previewSun's AvatarEternal Flamesatisfactory

Firstly, I am very happy to see that the addition of the many HoT effects (Eternal Flame, Dawnlight, and Sun Sear) does not come with a reduction in our direct spot healing. Most importantly, Eternal Flames upfront healing, is equal to the healing of Word of Glory, and the HoT effect is just a nice little bonus.

Secondly, the functionality of Sun's Avatar is now clear and sensible. To prevent imbalance between Avenging Wrath and Avenging Crusader, casting Avenging Crusader only applies two Dawnlight instead of the normal four you get with Avenging Wrath.
Another important clarification regards what happens when you have a Dawnlight active on yourself during Avenging Wrath, since you obviously cant connect a beam to yourself. This has been sorted by simply making Dawnlights on yourself radiate Sun's Avatar healing and damage in a 5 yard radius around you. I think this is a very reasonable compromise and solution to this problem.

We also had some concerns that Sun's Avatar would be too strong with Awakening, so to tone this down a bit, Awakening only applies a single Dawnlight to a random target. This still keeps Awakening strong and impactful but it relies more on Dawnlight applied by your own Holy Power spenders after casting Holy Prism.

Lightsmitha preview

The first change is to how Holy Bulwark and Sacred Weapon are applied to players. At first they were spells you would put down on the ground for people to run over and pick up, but they have been changed to simply be spells you cast on specific players, which is much better, more intuitive, and puts the agency of who gets them, in the hands of the Paladin.

The second important change is to Valiance. Initially, this would increase the duration of all active Holy Bulwark and Sacred Weapon when consuming Infusion of Light, but this has been changed to instead reduce the cooldown. This is much better as it also eliminates the concern we had in regard to the possibility of indefinitely extending Armaments on people.

Fear No EvilExcoriationFear No EvilRite of SanctificationRite of AdjurationAlgari Mana OilAnd the Winner Is...

Class Fantasy & Visuals: Herald of the Sun (Winner)
Herald of the Sun wins this category hands down. Calling upon the powers of the sun and creating visually impactful beams with Sun's Avatar, is significantly more interesting than anything Lightsmith brings to the table.

I think the initial design of Lightsmith, where Holy Bulwark and Sacred Weapon were spells you placed on the ground, would have looked significantly cooler, but that was obviously changed due to gameplay concerns.

Fun & Rewarding Gameplay: Herald of the Sun (Winner)

Herald of the Sun is more rewarding to play as you need to correctly optimize your Dawnlight spread for your Sun's Avatar windows. To do this you need to make sure you use your Holy Prism with every single one of your Avenging Wrath casts and your Awakening procs, which feels great when you learn to get it right.

Lightsmith is, in my opinion, quite boring to play and using your Holy Bulwark and Sacred Weapon simply feels unrewarding and unimpactful, and I really think they should at least give a Holy Power when cast.

Difficulty (Easiest): Lightsmith (Winner)
As alluded to above, Herald of the Sun has a higher skill ceiling than Lightsmith. Maximizing your Dawnlights, and making sure you can get an Awakening proc for every significant damage event is a little difficult at first.

Lightsmith is significantly more straight forward to play. Who you apply Holy Bulwark and Sacred Weapon to, has little impact on your overall performance, especially as Sacred Weapon is a standardized proc chance and a flat damage proc. While that might sound boring, I still think it is better than the alternative. Holy Bulwark will of course absorb more when using it on higher max health targets, but other than choosing to use it on tanks or not, it is an insignificant difference who you cast it on.

Defensiveness & Utility: Herald of the Sun & Lightsmith (Tie)

For personal defensiveness, both Hero Talents provide a lot of self healing. Holy Bulwark for Lightsmith adds up to a ton of absorb shield on yourself, while the self healing from Herald of the Sun's Sun's Avatar will help immensely with clearing the healing absorb from Light of the Martyr and staying alive during heavy raid damage.
For group defensiveness, Holy Bulwark and Shared Resolve for Lightsmith provides more upfront survivability than Herald of the Sun does, but Herald makes up for that by providing extremely strong on demand burst healing that Lightsmith simply cannot compete with.

Utility wise, neither Hero Talent have a lot to write home about. Herald of the Sun can give some movement speed increase with Illumine, but it is in no way something that would impact who you put Dawnlight on. Lightsmith doesn't bring any utility worth talking about as Fear No Evil and Excoriation are practically worthless.

Leveling: Herald of the Sun & Lightsmith (Tie)
Questing as a Holy Paladin, will never be as fast as questing as Retribution, but if you choose to quest as Holy regardless, then either Hero Talent will perform just fine. Lightsmith might feel better until you can get your hands on Sun's Avatar.

For leveling via dungeons you can also choose to use either Hero Talent, and it could be a good idea to swap back and forth to get a good feel for both of them over the course of your leveling session. Just as for questing, I expect Lightsmith to feel better in dungeons until you can get Sun's Avatar.

Mythic+: Herald of the Sun (Winner)

This might be a little controversial, but I believe that Herald of the Sun will be the better all-round Hero Talent for most players in Mythic+. With Sun's Avatar it provides a strong and simple way to carry AoE healing, which Lightsmith sorely lacks. Lightsmith might see more play in high keys where the extra damage output and better up front defensiveness can make the difference, but for the majority of players the extra on demand healing provided by Herald of the Sun is just going to be more impactful, especially since dungeons in The War Within generally feel like they require more healing throughput.

If tank survivability ends up being a major concern in Mythic+, then Holy Bulwark from Lightsmith will add a lot of extra tank healing and could also potentially be a reason people choose to play Lightsmith in high keys.

Raid: Herald of the Sun (Winner)

For raiding, Herald of the Sun is the winner in my book, largely for the same reasons that make it the winner in Mythic+. Herald of the Sun provides extremely strong raid wide burst healing, especially when the raid can be stacked up. Herald is also just more fun to min-max in raid, and it will have a higher impact on whether your raid can live a certain mechanic or not.

Lightsmith is absolutely still viable though, especially if we end up playing Avenging Crusader. Lightsmith scales a little better with Avenging Crusader than Herald due to Blessed Assurance. Herald of the Sun also falls off quite heavily on fights where your raid can't be stacked for the big damage events, which also is a mark in favour of Lightsmith on such fights.

Best Overall: Herald of the Sun (Winner)
Herald of the Sun is the overall winner. It feels more complete and well rounded, and it complements our base toolkit very well. It grants us strong raid wide burst healing capabilities without taking anything away from our strong spot healing. It has better visuals, and it is more fun to optimize.

Where your target selection with Lightsmith's Holy Bulwark and Sacred Weapon is largely irrelevant for your overall performance, who you apply Dawnlight to and how you position yourself for the Sun's Avatar beams, actually matters a lot, and will be a major skill differentiator. Lightsmith will likely be stronger when your group is spread out and you can't get good value out of Sun's Avatar.

In overall throughput, the Hero Talents are both close enough that you can play either.

Hero Talent Feedback Herald of the SunAwakeningSun's AvatarAwakeningDawnlightAvenging WrathAwakeningAvenging WrathTier SetAvenging WrathveryAvenging WrathSun's AvatarAvenging WrathAvenging Wraththe recent nerfs LightsmithHoly BulwarkSacred WeaponSacred WeaponFear No EvilExcoriationHoly BulwarkSacred WeaponFear No EvilExcoriationHoly BulwarkSacred WeaponBase Holy Paladin FeedbackGlimmer of LightTyr's DeliveranceHoly ShockWord of GloryHoly InfusioninterestingAvenging Crusaderheavy handed nerfsseveral bugsLight of the Martyrentirely Holy ShockWord of GloryLight of the MartyrLight of the MartyrHoly ShockPower of the Silver HandBlessing of An'shealwaysHoly ShockHoly ShockBestow LightBestow LightShould You Play Holy Paladin in the War Within?Hero Talent Guides for the War Within Launch

Comment by Necrolyrdoesn't matter, I will still play lightsmith even if it does negative healing and damage. I want to be a support blizzard!Comment by TastelikelemonGood thing Blizz managed to balance the class properly , its not normal and it should never happen for DR healer to have higher HPS than the highest HPS healer classes without DR. The spec is still strong , especialy good in M+ with all the instant casts and decent hots even after the nerfs , just more balanced to the point where you will not get massive advantage or pick rate over others.Comment by belgaerGood thing Blizz managed to balance the class properly , its not normal and it should never happen for DR healer to have higher HPS than the highest HPS healer classes without DR. The spec is still strong , especialy good in M+ with all the instant casts and decent hots even after the nerfs , just more balanced to the point where you will not get massive advantage or pick rate over others.keep nerfingComment by KestevavildGood thing Blizz managed to balance the class properly , its not normal and it should never happen for DR healer to have higher HPS than the highest HPS healer classes without DR. The spec is still strong , especialy good in M+ with all the instant casts and decent hots even after the nerfs , just more balanced to the point where you will not get massive advantage or pick rate over others.niceComment by KYZ123I was originally fairly excited for Lightsmith, since I enjoy support playstyles, but it's no longer a support hero spec in any form. The hero spec fantasy also falls a little flat as a result - you're arming your group with swords and shields, but the sword doesn't actually increase people's damage!

Changing the RPPM damage proc to trigger from the buffed player again wouldn't fix most of the underlying issues, but it would rectify the hero spec fantasy issue - you give someone a holy sword, they do more damage. Both Details and Logs would be able to reattribute this to the Paladin with no issue, so this cannot be used as an excuse, nor does it reduce the Paladin's agency over their damage/healing.Comment by BravejohnAs someone who play M+ with pugs, I think I will go Lightsmith because almost always in pugs group is not stacked and everyone choses his favorite corner of the map and enjoy the sight...Comment by PeacemoonIt is great to have more nods towards the Sunwalker subclass, for Tauren Paladins who call upon the power of the Sun.

Blessing of An'she: An'she is one of the eyes of the Earth Mother. An'she being the Sun, and Mu'sha being the Moon :)Comment by flyingtoastrMoP Holy was the absolute worst the spec has ever felt to play, and whomever was pushing for stuff like Eternal Flame to return should feel ashamed of themselves. HoTs are antithetical to Holy Paladins.Comment by RaburiCriticising that Lightsmith felt too "supporty" and reliant on who you place the weapon on, and then complaining that being able to place it on anyone is dull, is so funny to me. Negative feedback monkey paw'd this into existence instead of accepting that a support playstyle could exist as an option for players who want it.