I still don't understand why the paladin talentree gives LoH/Freedom/Bop instead of buffing them, it's sad to play without one of those thingsIt's like the shaman spirit form is a talent or the DH double jump
You neglected to point out that our capstone are all abilities you can play together in SL and will not be able to play in DF. FR, ES, Ashes to Ashes, DT and DR, Virtuous, and Final Verdict are all available to be played together as legos, tier set, conduits, and covenant ability currently, but in DF you will have to lose at least 2 of these abilities since they are all locked as final talents. I wouldn't be as concerned about this fact except that every other class tree so far has specs gaining abilities while Ret is just losing some.
Outlaw gets an almost guaranteed spot in raid with new, very nice CDR reduction, ret continues to have nothing unique to bring to raid that is already brought by the mandatory Holy paladin, should just give Aura mastery to the whole class, maybe switch it out for LoH on the class tree and make that base line, (we cant use LoH in ranked PvP anyway, so its a dead talent in 1/3 of the endgame anyway)
Nothing about Divine Steed being a waste of four talent points, when it should be consolidated down to two. The multiple points that have to go into AW. Way to many two and three point nodes in both the class and spec tree.Without an unique raid buff, or some other external utility, not only are we competing with other DPS, we are also competing with Holy and Protection for a raid spot.Blizzard realy needs to do a lot of work over this dumpster fire of a talent tree. Warlocks, Shamans, Warriors, Hunters, and Rogues are all leagues better.
The tooltip on the talent tree for Mad Paragon mentions AW getting extended by HOW, but the text of the article links to Judgement. Is it Judgement or HoW? I assume HoW, as that is how it behaved in Shadowlands.
Make Wings a default 2 mins on one node. Replace current second Wings node with AW: Might. Scratch that. Just make Wings one node, 20% dmg, heal, & crit. Nonsense that we should have to buy back our base CD in multiple point spends. Replace the second AW node in the class tree with Divine Toll. Add Ringing Clarity as a choice in the node with Divine Resonance, to sit where the Seal of Might node currently sits. (see below)Replace AW: Might with Light's Decree as the choice pair with Crusader. Give Prot the choice of Light's Decree or Sentinel, give Holy choice of Avenging Crusader or LD as well, just that it does healing splashing from themselves and their primary Beacon instead of damage.Horse should be 2 points, max. Not 4. Make the duration 6 seconds baseline.The choice node of Repentance/Blinding Light should be moved to be optionable and off the main progression path. Swap it with Judgement of Light.Move Holy Aegis to Cleanse's spot. Drop Cleanse one row (mirroring Turn Evil). Move Seal of Might to Holy Aegis's old spot and make it a 2 point node.Delete Obduracy and put the DivPurp/Holy Avenger choice node in its place. Swap the Afterimage node and the Judgment debuff node.Get rid of Improved BoP, make the Spellwarding choice node a simple choice between it and BoP. PUT DIVINE PROTECTION IN BoP's PLACE.Stop trying to make Consecration a thing unless you're going to make it move *with* the Paladin. It's going to be useless in M+ (which is likely where they think it will shine) because the melee group especially is constantly having to move. It's never felt good to press and, even with its many buffs here, still has no meaningful synergy with the class outside of exorcism. Even if it does high damage, it's not damage that the player is actively engaged with. It's just a maintenance buff.Give Ret a talent that makes them useful in a raid beyond what Prot/Holy already bring better. Improved Ret Aura - anytime Ret aura is triggered, cause raid members to gain X% crit for equal duration to Ret aura's effect. Place it where Holy Crusader sits in the Ret tree. Delete Holy Crusader.JV and Eye for an Eye are a wasted node that will never be taken by anyone who remotely knows what they are doing in pve outside of extremely niche situations (for Eye only). In pvp, Eye has some usefulness but will still be a rare choice. Why are we *still* dealing with the corpse of JV in our tree six years later? At the very least make this node a choice between a personal phys dam reduction (Eye) and a magic dam reduction CD. Or maybe make Divine Protection in the class tree have a 2 min CD, reducible to 1 min in this node?Also, give Long Arm back, you can keep the horse Blizz. Or at least make Long Arm a choice node with Hindrance. If we want to go down the left side of the tree for an Execution build, we're forced to either take a useless snare or equally useless consecrate "utility". The point of utility abilities is that they are both a) optionable and b) actually useful. Literally the only node on this row that meets muster and grants access to the end of the tree is the Healing Hands/Selfless Healer node.
uh this article is way to positive for the 2nd worst talent tree in DFNo mention of divine steed, at all in the whole articleNo mention of how it doesn't matter what path you take, you'll be getting divine storm, consecration and holy AOE talentsNo mention of how Bolas chosen single target build uses an AOE capstoneNo mention of how it's got the most passive stat talents behind Warrior (All of these 2% talents need to go, they are lazy bad placeholders at best)Is Blizzard paying for these articles? Not an insult, this is an honest and serious question. Kinda feels like we didn't want to bite the hand that feeds here.
Removed bubble from gcd. Reduce our threat to allow us to DPS to our strength/niche. Extra defensive would be lovely and something to help ret be picked in raid for those push top 500. Please.
Way too positive....Why do we have to take Divine Storm to access ST abilities? move it further down the list or allow it to be bypassed at least...being forced to take Divine storm for ST ....smhThere needs to be more connections between nodes to customize setups and all the wasted Divine Steed points...come on blizzard....get rid of the consecration bull&*!@, forcing utility options to take good abilities.....please have someone who actually plays a Paladin design these trees....Empyrean Empowerment as a capstone ability ?
So once again, Ret seems underwhelming so far? Bruh I'm convinced blizzard hates Ret pallies and only give love to Hy and protection.Ret brings nothing to the table that a prot or Hy pally can't bring, on top of that ret damage complete dog#$%^. Why bring in Ret when you have DK, rogues, warriors, windwalker that can pretty much do what Ret can but better when it comes to Damage in sine Target and AoE? (Mainly single target)Come on blizzard, give Ret more love here so they can compete better
I've played paladin for 17 years, since April of 2005. It's very apparent to me that whoever designed this talent tree has certainly not been familiar with paladin talents and spells, let alone retribution, for even half of that time. This is my feedback: there is far too much piecemealing of baseline paladin abilities that we've had for years, or in some cases the entire life of the class. You cannot treat paladin like very many other classes because their entire identity revolves around baseline utility. Things like Sac, BoP, Hand of Hindrance, should all be baseline class abilities as they have been for years. In the case of Blessing of Sacrifice, this is the first time in 18 years that it has not been a baseline ability. This to me is an excuse to push these new talent trees without actually innovating or improving on anything at all and to fool people into believing that there is any semblance of beneficial choice here with a shiny new coat of paint--when in fact it is a choice of how badly you'd like to hamstring your class. The luster will wear off very quickly as soon as players realize what all they've lost.Oddly enough, in many cases, talent choices are being made between two completely different areas of the class. If you're going to make paladins choose between damage throughputs, healing throughputs, mobility utility, immunity utility, etc--then they need to match up in the same area of choice. For example, why is hand of hindrance a talent choice against something that is completely removed from anything resembling mobility--healing hands? Why wouldn't hand of hindrance, if it must be a talent choice, be pitted against the choice of something resembling a pve version of unbound freedom, instead of a healing throughput? What if I want both, which is exactly how I'm able to play on live, and exactly the spec I would run for pvp? Perhaps, to pvers who may rarely use their utility in casual content they may find no issue with losing sac, hindrance, or any other number of abilities being scammed off as choices. But for PvP, high end raiding and high M+, you absolutely need this utility to make up for the fact that paladins are rarely ever anywhere near the top of the DPS charts.At this point, there is a load of talent configs that ret will be losing going into Dragonflight from Shadowlands. This is not a win and I am not excited for these "talent trees". This is closer to trying to play paladin on hardmode with half your abilities removed from play.
“My only concern with the capstones is that Sanctified Wrath and The Mad Paragon may have too much synergy between them, since they both extend Avenging Wrath, benefit from further extensions, and incentivize you to cast Judgment as frequently as possible.”This information is incorrect, Mad Paragon extends wings by using Hammer of Wrath not Judgment. Your single target build should be including 2/2 Vanguard’s Momentum to get 4 additional charges of HoW to vastly extend the duration of AW during single target.
Bring Back Divine Hammers from Legion, or make zeal cleave again...turn consecration into an Aura or something...spit balling
This author has clearly never played ret. Better than we were in SL, is that a joke?We lose mobility compared to SL, we lose utility too. We won't be able to take freedom sac and loh, so anyway you break it down we lose a utility or two.Zero blessings, no good aura, no defensives, no mobility improvements either. Not a single new and fun thing was added. If ret goes live like this it will be the 4th expansion in a row (over 7 years!) where ret has been dead weight.
Where is the proper negative feedback to accompany this? Yeah there's some good stuff, but we're also losing access to some utility, there's talent bloat (4 talents for a worse Divine Steed? Seal of Mercy's existence? boring 2% haste/crit/mastery talents?) and PVP is clearly the main focus of whoever is designing the tree, because Long Arm of the Law was removed for no good reason, and Divine Steed was nerfed overall.