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Comment by dragonplet

Holy Power?
Ain't Paladins Undead?

Comment by crusader666

Finally a high damage melee attack for retri, this is crusaderstrike x2+. Judgement of vengeance is the highest singletarget attack for retri in tbc/wotlk with like 13-20k crits. If we look at a hunter's kill shot that does 200% weapon dmg + (RAP * 0.40 + 362 * 2) which is fearly op. If the 25% make up for the (RAP * 0.40 + 362 * 2) (which i doubt tho :/) this will be just as good and u can use it anytime u got 3x holypower while killshot is below 20% hp.

Comment by crusader666

rofl u posted 3 sec b4 me, was going to be first ><

Comment by redfive

how do you get holy power?

Comment by frenchesssss

I presume you gain holy power stacks through Melee AutoAttacks from Divine Purpose.
Also from Zealotry, you gain 3 stacks per crusader for the next 30 seconds but only after using 3 stacks initially.

Comment by Duckzorz

In the next beta build (12604), this ability will be replacing Divine Storm as the Retribution signature ability, meaning we will have access to Templar's Verdict at level 10. Divine Storm has been made into a Ret tier 3 talent.

Comment by Orthis

Incorrect. It clearly states level 20
And you get divine storm at level 10.

See here for the new build and it clearly doesn't show any Templar's verdict.

Spoke too soon. Duckzorz is right. It is the new signature ability for pallies.

Comment by forgetthesword

Holy power can be generated by using certain abilities, like Holy Shock. There are others, just none coming to the top of my head right now...

Comment by theawseome1

OP? naw can't be, it's a ret pally attack, just look at lay on hands and all the forums

Comment by Keelerak

see my comment for complete list
http://cata.wowhead.com/spell=85247#comments

Comment by sonicknight

Seems abit OP? 225% weapon damage is alot of burst

Comment by Derichian

Oh yea of course, because a Move that takes 10-12 secs to actually use at full effectiveness, is REALLY bursty......Amirite

Comment by Derichian

considering the fact, that Zealotry itself costs 3 holy power to cast, that means we have to get 3 holy power, zealotry, then crusader strike, templars verdict, wait a few secs for CS to come off CD, and this is all assuming the enemy stands perfectly still so we can actually hit them. so before retards start saying OMFG BURST. just think in that time a warrior or rogue a has already done twice as many damaging moves that easily outweigh 225% weapon damage in total, so read into the goddamn talents first, bunch of retards.

/Rant

Comment by Maccabius

Concerning Ret Pallies and burst in Cata... I've had similar PvP concerns. The 225% weapon damage from the new Templar's Verdict is only a small part of the problem.

With the new Seal of Truth (basically looks the exact same as Seal of Vengeance/Corruption in game now, with the exception that it seems to be taking over the new Seal of Righteousness as the go-to seal for PvPers - and our current SoR becoming the Ret's new Seal of Command with the new Seals of Command talent), and the 'Holy Power' mechanic they're adding, it's true that in PvP Ret Pallies are going to need a good 10+ seconds on a foe to 'Charge Up.' If they can ever get to that point though, it looks pretty much like game over.

5 stacks of Seal of Truth + 3 (full) Holy Power = Pop wings & zealotry + chain Rebuke (our new 'Kick'), Hammer of Justice, and Repentance, all the while Judging & Full-Powered Templar's Verdicts & pretty much auto-critting with Hammer of Wrath (now that we can HoW as much as we like as long as our wings are up with our new Sanctified Wrath talent) the entire time. Seems like you pair a Ret Pally in a team that can allow your Pally to stay alive and keep his trinket and get in enough hits to charge up and you've got a pretty OP arena team...

I really see no problems yet in terms of PvE DPS though. Rets have been a slow build into a steady, high DPS with bursts in damage revolving around our wings cooldown. Zealotry is either going to make that burst bigger or give us a second burst to play with. Either way, it seems our dps role in raids is going to stay essentially the same with a few new fun mechanics to manage.

Comment by mickezi

Dude, seriously... at 8 seconds elemental shaman would have killed enyone... and seal of truth is total crab for pvp... as there is tons of new talents that increase the damage and crit change of judgements... and sela of righteousness have alot of stronger judgements than truth... if not stacked to 5 of course... and what comes to PvE i think paladins are screwd... they will be alot like warlocks... in long period of time they make insane dmg... but thye dont have eny threat reducing talents... if they dont add that talent that reduces threat by 30% then they will pull the mobs very often... and at boss fights seal of truth does insane dmg and will make tank some problems with threat...

Comment by Maccabius

Yea, no way that can be bursty... http://cata.wowhead.com/search?q=crusader+strike#abilities crusader strike with a 4 sec cd (3 if talented) then zealotry (making crusader strike proc 3 holy powers instead of 1)

Wonder what will happen the next 15 sec. Getting a 225% wpn dmg strike every 3 sec.. (in addition to the normal CS/DS/Judge damage)
I see your point, no way that could be bursty at all....

With a 3 sec cd on CS and no cd on Templar's Verdict, a paladin's optimal rotation during Zealotry would seem to be CS -> TV -> CS -> TV, etc. There doesn't seem to be any room for any other abilities... even judgements. What I'm chomping at the bit to find out is how much of a DPS boost this would be versus a Paladin's regular rotation. This would affect whether you'd be better off (in PvE) to pop wings along with Zealotry, or if it'd be better to use wings separately to take advantage of the Sanctified Wrath talent and get in up to 3 (or 6 if they keep Glyph of Avenging Wrath in Cata) Hammer of Wrath's along with a couple Judgements and a couple TV's in there.

Comment by Derichian

extra damage % is not additive.

Comment by Zaan3

So basically Blizzard's giving us paladins a paly-viscerate huh?

Comment by theakismaniac

paladin's eviserate is probably the best way to put it since as ret there are 3 main uses for holy power, just like rogues have many ways to use combo points

templar's verdict - physical damage based on weapon damage (close to 300% talented)
word of glory - healing (also looks like it was meant to replace Art of War heals)
inquistion - damage modifier for limited time (like rogue's slice and dice or druid's savage roar)
divine storm - AoE finisher, no longer a regular attack with splash damage, it also not longer has a target limit... this also seems to be unique to paladin's as rogues and druids dont have a finisher that is aoe damage

like a rogue's eviserate there is also a comparable envenom in protection, shield of the righteous is a finisher now dealing up to 120% AP in holy damage at max power (so ret uses the physical finisher while prot uses the armor ignoring one for damage)... the only ridiculous thing is Vengeance and how much AP it gives easily making SotR a the better finisher in terms of damage

also some interesting things so far with power generation you should expect as ret

-haste affects crusader strike's cooldown if you take the talent meaning haste may be the way to go as ret (especially since all the crit talent are gone, and there are many proc based talents in cata)
-pursuit of justice gives holy power when hit by a snare, which means that you can throw heals or if in melee range, dish out far more TV's in pvp
-divine purpose give holy power 40% of the time on many attacks including some finishers, which can allow chain casting at times, or bursty/dry streaks at times
-the mastery is kind of a clearcasting type talent where it allows your next holy power ability to be free and act as if it used 3 power, so you may get large spikes in damage or healing as ret, more often the more mastery you have

been reading and ideally aim for a 2 holy power, 1 point is too weak and sitting at 3 may lead to wasting HP, im thinking of it as rogue's mutilate where they have bulky combo generation (they use finishers at 4 so they dont waste CP)... too many procs that could lead to either free finishers or extra holy power

Comment by Sacrosterion

O.O Damage is amazing! If talented correctly and glyphed, this thing can do ~410% Weapon Damage! PvP Players, you best look out... CAUSE YOU GONNA GET HIT BY A TRUCK! >:D

EDIT: Not including selfless healer

Comment by 45ak3n

imagine this thing doing a crit strike.............oh god.....u guys better stay away from retadins for a while.......

Comment by mechanus

Yo dawgs,

we heard you like to hammer, so when we were designing the thumbnail of this kickass skill, we decided to put a hammer on your hammer so you can hammer while you hammer.

Also, in a future patch we intend to introduce orc paladins, for the hammerin and awesomeness to increase exponentially.

Comment by kragathore

TV is physical damage? or holy.....

Comment by detination

i have to admit, i was expecting yet another nerf on all of us pallys, but when i got to the dummy at org and started workin out a combo, i did about 100k damage in about 5-7 seconds, alot more then i could ever imagine being able to do without being in a vehicle :L

Comment by Dreverda

If you proc Zeal/Avenging Wrath at the same time and make your rotation
CS > TV > HoW > CS >TV > Exo(AoW)/J > CS >TV > HoW > CS > TV
You could easily get 20k burst dps

Comment by Rollingbrill

At 3 Holy Power, the tooltip says 225% weapon damage. Take into account all the damage increases to TV ONLY.

+30% - 292% = Crusade
+15% - 336% = Glyph
+10% - 370% = T11 Set bonus (cata)

It does much more damage than people think.

Comment by StaticLgtBrngr

Does this spell with the new holy power system remind anyone else of classic pally? (at least where ret is concerned)

In days of yore you would hit with crusader strike which left a stacking debuff on the target which increased the holy damage it took, then once at 3 stacks holy strike would hit like a mack truck.

This new ret feels very similar in that regard except now you stack 3 charges of holy power on yourself by hitting with crusader strike and then unleash hell with templars verdict, the new holy strike.

As for pvp I think ret has good potential now despite needing holy power charges due to the way mastery rating works, with enough of it you can get a lot of procs which allow you to cast this spell as if you are at 100% holy power and not consume any holy power regardless of how much you have, this is very handy along side the new spell which causes crusader strike to generate 3 charges of holy power per hit (I forget the name) along with avenging wrath which now allows hammer of wrath to be used every cd while avenging wrath is active regardless of the targets health state.

Using your cooldowns properly and or with a bit of luck you can now dish out an enormous amount of single target burst damage as ret thanks to this spell.

Oh and to those asking, yes, templars verdict causes physical damage, not holy.

Comment by godnoble

What is that icon supposed to be?

Comment by loik

Basicly, it's a hammer with a pally version. Instead of having blood, it has holy magic.

Comment by loik

235% weapon damage as holy damage, a little overpowered -.-

Comment by Maccabius

Haste only helps with global cooldowns of 'spell abilities' - not melee abilities. For Ret this means that your Exorcism, Holy Wrath, and Consecration will be affected by haste. Your Crusader Strike, Templar's Verdict, Judgement, and Hammer of Wrath will always have a global cooldown of 1.5 seconds though.

Ret Pallies seem to be up in the air at the moment. Haste seems like a definite top secondary stat, but sounds like it is sooo eclipsed by Strength that it makes gemming for haste not viable (elitist jerks mentioned a ratio of 3:1 in favor of strength).

The shame is that it seems like Blizz has an AWESOME and very fun dps class set up in Ret Pallies, but the numbers are just messing us up (of course this is my opinion). I loved Ret when the patch 4.0 first hit. Everything was about getting holy power to use Templar's Verdict. Every other ability you had was basically only there for the chance of getting the Holy Power to charge your next TV up. Haste 1) reduced the cooldown of Crusader Strike (our biggest Holy Power generator), 2) helped our Art of War procs - giving a 40% chance of a holy power and helping to fill out a rotation that would otherwise have holes in it 3) worked in tandem with our Mastery to give a free TV and another 40% shot at generating another holy power and fill even more holes 4) sped up our Seal of Truth DoTs (more trivial to how the class PLAYS, but still a notable source of DPS). When Cata dropped I was expecting to have a new buff to manage (Inquisition) and another cooldown to play with (Gaurdian of the Ancient Kings) and that's it...

What ended up happening though was Templar's Verdict was rivaled on the damage sheets by AoW Exorcism as our 'biggest nuke.' I couldn't tell if they nerfed Templar's Verdict at all in the process - I wasn't following the changes that carefully and I may have missed it, but I don't think it has been nerfed. It certainly feels as if it has though. They certainly buffed Exorcism though. It's still going to be only around 10-12% of a Ret's damage while Templar's Verdict will probably be at about 18-20% in most fights, but simply the fact that its damage is the same as a fully charged TV takes some of the fun out of the class in my opinion. There's something very... pleasing? about storing up that holy power to release a killer blow. Having a proc off a weapon swing that hits as hard cheapens it for me. Plus, it messes with the priority system.

Blizz, if you're listening, please for my sake, nerf exorcism into the ground. Put it down on the charts next to Holy Wrath where it belongs! If you want to make it an important part of Ret, then change the 100% damage buff from Art of War to a 100% chance to generate Holy power, and make my Templar's Verdicts sacred again! Exorcism down to 5-7% and Templar's Verdict up to 25-30% of our damage table would be lovely! thanks.

Comment by FleabagF7

A hammer with holy...things around it, I assume.

Comment by lolwatomg

wow 235% wepon dmg and no cd , so OP -.-

Comment by Thikian

Nobody mentioned yet, but it's worth noting that this attack has one of the more awesome sounds the WoW can offer these days.

When I first heard it, I was like: "Huh, what was that AWESOME channg-chiinnng sound? Now I've GOT to go play that class."

Comment by OldWolf

The tooltip on this page says:

1 Holy Power: (33 * 1.15)% Weapon Damage
2 Holy Power: (33 * 1.15)% Weapon Damage
3 Holy Power: (99 * 1.15)% Weapon Damage

which differs from the in-game tooltip. Can someone clarify?

Comment by Mi777

I think this spell has a new animation. Saw it on my female blood elf, looked little like a dance move :)

Comment by Nikecow

For anyone wondering, the "Final Verdict" talent replaces Templar's Verdict.

Comment by heartlessnobody

Templar's Verdict
3 Holy Power Melee Range
Instant cast
Requires Paladin (Retribution)
Requires level 10
A powerful weapon strike that deals 485% Holy damage.

almost double from 259% and oh whats that? it does Holy damage now heh
kinda nuky now yyyeeesss

Comment by rodalpho

The devs told us exactly how Ret abilities work in PvP at the link(s) below.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/20747314610#2

I'm pasting it here as they typically delete the beta forums after release.

Execution Sentence deals 60% damage in PvP
Templar's Verdict deals 70% damage in PvP
Justicar's Vengeance heals for 60% of damage done

Comment by TheSephiroth

Is it AoE damage?

Comment by Trollokdamus

As of 8.1, you're now getting the Avenging Wrath wings visual effect while performing this ability. Pretty neat.

Add to list...Links WeakAuras Export

Templar's Verdict

Templar's Verdict

3 Holy Power	Melee Range

Instant cast

Unleashes a powerful weapon strike that deals [(194% of Attack power)% * ((max(0, min(Level - 10, 10)) * 11 + 290) / 400)] Holy damage to an enemy target.

Spell Details

Duration

n/a

School

Holy

Mechanic

n/a

Dispel type

n/a

GCD category

Normal

Cost

3 Holy Power

Range

5 yards (Combat)

Cast time

Instant

Cooldown

n/a

GCD

1.5 seconds

Effect #1

Dummy
Server-side script

Effect #2

Dummy
Server-side script

Flags

Cannot be used while shapeshifted

Guides

Legion Paladin Class Changes Paladin Leveling Guide & Best Leveling Spec 1-120 Retribution Artifact Guide Retribution Paladin Guide Retribution Talents Guide Retribution Paladin PvP Guide - Battle for Azeroth 8.3 Retribution Rotation Guide

Templar's Verdict

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