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Comentario de 4966

Does anyone know if the threat amount is still applied if the target is immune to bleed effects? i.e. Undead and Mechanical.

Comentario de Solander

Lacerate seems to effectively be the druid equivalent of sunder, and with the recent "nurf" to bear form threat this move seems like an incredibly useful tool for keeping all the hits on you. Lacerate is also the only bear form move that benefits from the mangle bleed debuff.
Too bad you have to wait till level 66.

Comentario de peeweesweden

At this moment and to my knowledge, the only way to decrease the rage cost of this talent is by having the feral talent Shredding Attacks (requires 15 points in feral combat). 2 points reduce the cost by 2 rage.

But then again, I've only browsed through the relics so far. Are there any trinkets that have that effect?

Comentario de 34715

Does anyone have a figure on what amount of threat this power causes? I am under the impression that bear threat is generated as a multiplier of their damage. Is that the same with this? How does that figure with targets who are immune to bleed effects.

Basically I just like to know what "high amount of threat" means, exactly.

Comentario de 38374

As of 2.0.10 this ability has been changed to add a small amount of normal damage when used, in addition to the bleed damage.

The extra threat is applied to this front end damage in order to make it useful for tanking bleed immune mobs.

It was a much needed change and now it is completely viable for tanking bleed immune mobs.

Its threat output is comparable to that of a warriors sunder.

Keep in mind that the debuff still will not appear on bleed immune mobs so there isn't really any way for your party to keep track of how many "Lacerates" are on the target like they can with sunder.

Comentario de Xokati

What way to build aggro ist the best?

1) Maul + mangle
2) maul + lacerate(spam if we have enough rage to use maul)
3) lacerate spam
4) maul + lacerate ( keep 5 stacks and refresh) + mangle

I was testing lacerate with ktm 19.16 and ktm show small amout of threat...(300-400threatps) It shows wrong?

Comentario de Shuror

How to tank on a single target:
1st priority: Mangle. Always use when the cooldown is up.
2nd priority: Lacerate. When Mangle is on CD and you have rage for it, use it.
3rd priority: Maul. Use it when you have excessive rage which can't be consumed with the two already mentioned abilities.

Comentario de 63715

I just want to know if initial attack of Lacerate can scale with Attack Power. Because even a 10% scaling would make this a little more efficient. Bear tanks are supposed to deal more damage than warriors, so I would expect this to grow a little more.

Maybe have a projected 1/5th of Maul's attack power, considering the rage cost and the lack of rage reduction (2 rage is definitely not worth the talent points, given the feral trees already powerful talents).

Comentario de 817

I've noticed that Lacerate triggers a 1.5 sec GCD, whereas other bear abilities (Mangle, Feral Charge, Faerie Fire, Bash...) trigger a 1 sec GCD. It does seem a bit odd, as I assumed that melee specials triggered the 1 sec GCD but spells the 1.5 sec GCD.

Can anyone confirm this?

Comentario de 17636

The Initial Damage seems to be affected by the disease Effect of https://www.wowhead.com/mop-classic/item=9088

Making Gift of Arthas one of the top Guardian Elixir for the Feral Tank

Comentario de Norrec

With 2.4 patch, lacerate will now scales with AP.

Source

Basically 20 AP adds 1 damage per stack.

Comentario de 203974

over 1500 base damage? looks great to me

Comentario de 82875

Sexytool, how did you test this? There is no way to know the current threat of a target, how do you know the threat you are building after you have a full stack? How to know if the initial 285 is still applied or not? As you have tested it with your druid, could you please explain the full procedure you took to validate your theory?

Most people seem to think that it does build the extra threat.

And btw, warriors spam Devastate (noone uses Sunder Armor any more) even after they have a full stack. They also spammed Sunder Armor before Devastate existed, even after a full stack. So your comment saying

like a warriors' sunder, you only want to refresh a lacerate stack.

is pretty confusing.

Thanks!

Comentario de 225471

Lacerate does, in fact, cause extra threat.

Threat = 285 + (dmg * 0.2)

http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t10203-lacerate_threat_finally_measured/#post299471

Please note that this is for Lacerate (rank 1) and will not necessarily hold true for ranks 2 and 3.

Comentario de 196098

Is it true bears no longer use this that much to keep aggro on bosses?

Comentario de 178827

Yes, 1600 base bleed damage, however, 75 rage cost. Best used for tanking, for the extra threat.

Comentario de 162006

Is it just me, or does Blizzard like to give all tanking classes some kind of 5-stackable debuff?

Death Knights get Rune of Razorice. (Though, I think there are better runes to use for tanking.
Druids get Lacerate.
Paladins get Seal of Vengenace/Corruption.
Warriors get Sunder Armor and Devastate.

Comentario de 321041

Anyone know the AP modifier formula?

Comentario de 220854

Lacerate+Rend and Tear+This+Maul = Happy Bear =)
Im doing crazy dmg with this setup, maul hits BIG and is mana-efficient.

Comentario de 120295

After months of tanking end-game and being frustrated about my low threat, and always attributing it to choosing better survivability over threat generation, I realized tonight that..

.. Lacerate generates A LOT of threat, even after 5 stacks. In the past I have always stacked 5 (while also mauling), then I would just mangle, maul and swipe when rage allowed, while making sure to keep up my lacerate stacks. This method netted around 3k threat, which isn't bad for low 80 raiding and heroics, but just doesn't cut it when you are tanking for 5-7k dps.

Tonight, purely by accident, I kept lacerating and mauling even after 5 stacks and noticed on Omen that my threat had shot up to 5k, peaking at 7k on one single target pull.

So, moral of this long winded comment, on single pulls, keep spamming lacerate and maul despite the stacks. Save swipe for your aoe pulls. Enjoy.

Comentario de SamuraiJakkass86

The icon looks like a bear got punched in the face.

Comentario de 385742

I want this without the threat in cat form! :o

Comentario de Vanros

I don't know if this was the correct way of tanking when the OP posted his comment, but it is not the correct way of tanking now!

".. Lacerate generates A LOT of threat, even after 5 stacks. In the past I have always stacked 5 (while also mauling)"

The first key ingredient that is missing is Faerie Fire (Feral), which produces a high amount of threat (even when it is being re-applied) and costs no range. This should be the first thing you apply and you should should continue using it every time it comes off cooldown until the end of the fight. Also note: It has a 30 yard range so you can cast it while still running up to your target.

Further note: Mangle (Bear) produces more threat, however, since you can use this ability at 30 yards and there is no delay in the action itself (there is a small delay in using Mangle (Bear)) it makes sense to use Faerie Fire (Feral) first.

You may, however, not want to use this ability when a pull involving ranged/caster monsters goes wrong, as this can be a very useful ability to help you hold threat off the healer at long range.

Secondly, Mangle (Bear) should be used every time it comes off cooldown. It provides much more threat per second than lacerate at the same rage cost. If you are having serious threat problems (which shouldn't really be happening) your first port of call should be getting some talents in Improved Mangle (lowering the cooldown of Mangle (Bear) by 0.5s for every talent point, up to a maximum of three).

When both Faerie Fire (Feral) and Mangle (Bear) are on cooldown you should then think about getting Lacerate
to five stacks. The great thing about Lacerate is that, even though its threat per second is only mediocre, it is a very rage-efficient means of producing threat once it reaches five stacks. You should therefore get it to five stacks and refresh it every 12 seconds or so (as it is about to run out).

After you have finished getting your five stacks of Lacerate it is then time to consider Maul. When you have 45 or more rage you should start Mauling. Using Maul with less than 45 rage is ill advised because you might delay refreshing your Lacerate (which is a significant loss in threat per second if you lose your five stacks) or you might delay the cooldown on Mangle (Bear) (also bad for your threat per second) due to rage starvation.

Lastly, if you are producing very large amounts of rage (consistently around 60ish) you should consider using Swipe (Bear) in addition to your Mauls for maximum threat production as well as maximum procs of Savage Defense (a bear's shield-like mitigation ability).

Please note: This post only refers to tanking a single monster. There is a different set of priorities for tanking more than one monster!

Comentario de Deevan

Based on initial testing on the training dummies and old world raids, Glyph of Lacerate does affect the initial application hit of lacerate as well as the periodic damage.

The lacerates will "pop" every time you hit Pulverize, but it's a solid choice for bear tanks in 4.0.1. The only other two prime bear glyphs are Mangle and Berserk, of which both also fit in very nicely for cat off-dps. It seems this is the only dedicated "prime" bear glyph.

As of now, there are no more dedicated bear glyphs slated to be released in Cataclysm.

Comentario de 341063

The amount of damage the DoT Does is ... Amusing. It does lower than what it did in TBC. I Understand it's for Pulverize, that's fine. But why does the Feral T11 Bonus give 10% Damage to the Already 600 crit of the DoT (1k-2k Vengence)... That's beyond me.

Comentario de 854701

This is the only Glyph to positvely affect Bear Form survivability.

The "mastery" system for Bears depends on a chain of three procs - first, you hit the enemy, secondly the hit is a crit (DoT crits do not count, as of now, although the initial application of Lacerate and Thrash does) and third, a random 50/50 chance of a Savage Defense proc.

With an increased crit chance, this means Lacerate is more likely to "pass" the second proc in the chain and get you to the third.

Stacking three Lacerates and consuming them with Pulverize makes ALL your abilities more likely to proc Savage Defense, giving Lacerate a second very useful quality.

Third, by taking the talent Beserk, Lacerate DoTs have a chance to proc a free Mangle.

Comentario de 997771

In Mists, your Global Cooldown is 1.5 seconds. Lacerate has a 3 second cooldown. This means you use Lacerate every other Global Cooldown.
Lacerate > ___ > Lacerate > ___ > Lacerate > ___ > Lacerate > ___ >

Ideally you use Mangle first, and on cooldown and whenever its cooldown is randomly reset by Lacerate, Faerie Fire or Thrash, and thereafter use Lacerate every other global cooldown (including immediately after any Mangle).

Between each lacerate you put one other ability:
*Procs of Mangle (most important to build rage)
*Thrash at least once every 15 seconds to apply the Weakened Blows Debuff
*Faerie Fire every cooldown (6 seconds)
*Savage Defense at 60 rage or Frenzied Regeneration when low on health
*Swipe on multiple targets
*other utility spells: (self-heals, interrupts, stuns, growls, etc. etc.)

Unlike before, when you used Pulverize to consume the DoT portion of Lacerate, Pulverize has been eliminated and the DoT portion of Lacerate merely helps maintain threat over time on your target. It has no other proc effect (like berserk) or anything. You can spread lacerates on multiple targets or stack lacerate on a single target. It's damage done is neglible to your survival.

Comentario de Allakhazam

Here some number crunching, on how much DMG you will be doing with lvl of the effect also remember this refreshes every time u reapply it.

Lacerate
Effect Staks DMG for 15 sec DMG per Sec
5 775 51.66666667
4 620 41.33333333
3 465 31
2 310 20.66666667
1 155 10.33333333

Lacerate with Mangle add 30%
Effect Staks DMG for 15 sec DMG per Sec
5 1007.5 67.16666667
4 806 53.73333333
3 604.5 40.3
2 403 26.86666667
1 201.5 13.43333333

Comentario de Allakhazam

This ability kicks @$$ in duels, or any 1 vs 1 combat

Comentario de Thottbot

I can't wait! \o/

64 at the moment. My 'sunder' in 2 levels, my Flight form in 4!

Comentario de Thottbot

I am pretty sure from checking other sites the "stacks up to 0 times" should read "stacks up to 5 times"

Comentario de Thottbot

Yeah it does stack up to 5 times. Level 66 druid garithos

Comentario de Thottbot

For fights lasting longer than 20 seconds or so, this is a great ability.

Once you have 5 Lacerates stacked, you're getting an additional base *67* DPS. That's assuming you keep the Mangle debuff up for the +30% damage to bleed effects.

If you Lacerate again before the stack of 5 expires, you refresh the debuff. So it costs 65 Rage over ~10 sec to apply, but only 13 rage every ~10 sec to maintain at top damage.

(The Rage costs above assume 2/2 Shredding Attacks, which has become a great talent now that Shred benefits from the Mangle debuff.)

Note also that the ability text indicates Lacerate causes Threat in excess of its damage.

Questions to the gallery:

-Does Lacerate damage scale with AP?

-Does Lacerate damage generate rage? (Seems like it does, in which case any rage in excess of the maintenance cost turns into free Mauls.)

-Does Lacerate generate its extra threat on application or when it ticks? (If the former, that'd make it a spammable regain-aggro ability when Growl isn't enough.)

Comentario de Thottbot

Lacerate used to be a imba tanking/dps ability

Blizzard nerf bear form over-all damage

Blizzard Hot-fixed lacerate and Mangle (bear) to generate more Aggro

Lacerate now does instant aggro - instead of over time during the DoT

My question: So, Druids will be spamming Lacerate / Mangle like a Warrior does Sunder Armor / Devestate?

Comentario de Thottbot

so i guess basicly

mangle
lacerate
lacerate
lacerate
mangle
lacerate
lacerate

then refresh mangle again then keep lacerate refreshed when the duration gets low so that u can do top bleed dmg till the fight is over...if it even lasts that long anyway

Comentario de Thottbot

full feral spec, no threat modifiers on equip:

lacerate: ~26 dmg -> 420 aggro (ktm mod)
lacerate dot: 10 aggro per tick and application (means 5× lacerate = 50 aggro per tick)

dmg independent i guess

can't figure out how much aggro does a crit make because every time it crits i also get more aggro from imp leader of the pack :D (heal)

Comentario de Thottbot

I'm sorry, but a lot of the information provided by comments on this page is incorrect. I gotta set ya's straight.

Wowwiki provides a wonderful info page on threat/aggro per skill/spell. They pretty much have everything on there:

http://www.wowwiki.com/Threat

Specifically about Lacerate, wowwiki states that it does +285 threat initially (a sunder-like effect, though sunder does 301) and -80% threat on bleed and instant damage. They've tested this thoroughly with mods such as ktm.

So no, the dmg+dot/threat ratio is not 1 to 1, as stated erroneously above. It's 1 to .20.

You will cause 285 threat every time you use this skill, in additional 1 threat per 5 total dmg caused by it.

Be wary of this. The amount of threat actually being caused by the yellow numbers ticking away is much lower than what you'd expect. There's not much to worry about though, as the initial threat is enough to back up the inflated numbers.

Edit: These values of OF COURSE modified by the druid threat auras described on the page. Add 30% to threat for being in bear form and 45% if you have 3/3 Feral Instinct.

Comentario de Thottbot

Oddly enough, I found Lacerate to be marginally useful in PVP, in spite of the fact that it doesn't scale with attack power: I'm a 66 feral druid, and I was able to take on a lvl 70 prot warrior. Since I was only hitting for around 150 per swing (white), the 220 damage tics were pretty handy.

Comentario de Thottbot

A LITTLE bit confused:
Is the initial bleed damage ALWAYS 31 damage, even though stacking it?

First: 31 initial (+31 per tick)
Then what?
2nd: 31 or 62 initial (+62 per tick)?
3rd: 31 or 93 initial (+93 per tick)?
4th: 31 or 124 initial (+124 per tick)?
5th: 31 or 155 initial (+155 per tick)?

(And if u have mangle i guess this improves all the damages, both initial and ticks, by 30%)

Is it always 31 initial damage or the alternate?

Comentario de Thottbot

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Comentario de saillaw

In TBC Classic, you don't get this from your trainer until lvl 66.

Enlaces

Lacerar

Lacerar
Alcance de ataques cuerpo a cuerpo

Instante	3 seg de reutilización

Lacera al objetivo enemigo, lo que inflige [1 + (Poder de ataque * 0.616)] p. de daño de sangrado y [5 * (1 + (Poder de ataque * 0.0512))] p. de daño extra durante 15 s. Se acumula un máximo de 3 veces.

Cada vez que Lacerar golpea, tiene un 25% de probabilidad de renovar el tiempo de reutilización de Destrozar.

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Detalles de hechizos

Duración

15 segundos

Escuela

Física

Mecanica

n/d

Tipo de disipación

n/d

Categoría GCD

Normal

Costo

Ninguno

Rango

5 metros (Combat)

Tiempo de lanzamiento

Instante

Reutilización

3 segundos

GCD

1.5 segundos

Formas

Forma de oso

Efecto #1

Apply Aura: [Periodic Damage]
Valor: 1 cada 3 segundos
Mecanica: Sangrando
[PVP Multiplier: ]1

Efecto #2

School Damage (Física)
Valor: 1
Mecanica: Sangrando
[PVP Multiplier: ]1

Banderas

[Is Ability]
[Initiates Combat (Enabled Auto-Attack)]
[Discount Power On Miss]
[DoT Stacking Rule]
[Periodic Can Crit]
[Aura Points On Client]

Lacerar

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Detalles de hechizos

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