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Comentario de 452993

como se saca esto?

Comentario de Ransuke

Este es un "buff" que se les da en conquist si son menos que el contrincante, se acumula hasta 20 veces (seria el caso si fueran 2 vs 40)
Lo maximo que he visto es Tenacity x8, cuando alguien trae mas de x3 de este es casi imposible vencerle, no hay oportunidad contra el

Comentarios

Comentario de Hubbl3

This is the buff the outnumbered faction in Lake Wintergrasp gains.

Comentario de 81892

The health and damage components of the buff scale with how outnumbered the player is.

Comentario de 252434

This buff is a million kinds of ridiculous. We were up against druids and ret-pallies that had upwards of 50k hp and were able to bring down our siege vehicles in seconds flat.

In short, this buff is the IDDQD of WoW. It's simply impossible to win when the opposition has this stacked enough.

The failure in logic behind this buff is that it assumes that the outnumbering forces will be densely packed against the individual, and thus balance itself out. It fails to take into account that one incredibly strong player is worth much more than 5 normal ones.
The same way an 80 can obliterate 5+ 70s at a time, the players with this buff are virtually unstoppable.

Utter ridiculousness.

Comentario de 5661

Greatest buff ever. As a Hordie on an Alliance-overpopulated server its great to get this stacked high (got 17 stacks once) and run into a crowd, obliterating them.

Poetic justice, you overbreeding Alliance scum! ;)

Comentario de PvtDeth

Last night I fought against a Tauren Warrior with 212,000 health. For a few seconds, he peaked at 240,000. At first I had no idea what was going on, but once I figured it out, I realized it's an awesome idea. Like someone above said, it was basically a raid boss fight with no aggro.

There's no need to nerf it as we had him vastly outnumbered. We've all played AB and AV; if you can't organize, you don't have much chance of winning. That's nothing new.

Comentario de blupache

Typicaly an 80 in blues can do 1500-2500dps with buffs from a typical 10man. (im a prot paladin and i can do the lower end). So I dont see trippling health would be a bad thing. It would prolong battles if anything and thats more fun.

Tripling the health would be insane. I'm a prot pally too. With 46k health and 75% extra damage, I'm a walking nightmare for a lot of classes. That said, I got owned 1v1 by a priest cos I've still only got 5.6k mana and am vulnerable to fear.

Is the current scaling balanced? Hard to say. I think it's a decent first attempt at balance, probably needs some refinement as to when it kicks in & how strongly.

It definitely penalises disorganisation though. Myself & another prot pally finally broke into the fortress with about 30 seconds remaining. When my cap got interrupted & I attacked the defenders, people were so busy trying to save their own necks from me that the other tankadin was able to quietly ninja the objective & win us the match. Despite the our being heavily buffed, it was this moment of sloppy teamwork that lost our opponents a match they really should've won.

Comentario de Corhen

i like this, without this, it would be really hard to defeat the allience, as there is no cap in this BG. i have never seen ot go over 3x, but at 3x it seems reletivly ballenced

Comentario de 68890

If you have a Mechano-hog/Mekgineer's Chopper, it will count as a player and will take/add one of these buffs. Apparently mounts can be players...

Comentario de 182242

Heh, Id hate to see what would happen if it was 1 vs 80

Comentario de Deivijs

Met a paladin with 20 stacks. He 1-shot me with a judgement... Ofcourse, i suppose the same would happen if there were 5 ret paladins...

Comentario de 267327

imagine it stacked 20times and like 100 allies in WG. a prot pally with that was like fight ragnaros back in the day and he cud 2 shot other tank like players

Comentario de 320447

There's still a significant weakness to it in that it doesn't provide resistance to CC.
If you're outnumbering them enough to get 15 or 20 tenacity then you should really be able to perma-stun/sheep/fear them and then just beat them down.

Comentario de 178572

If your smart and you have several stacks of this. Hanging out around the attempting to get in really isn't going to work if the opposing side isn't stupid. You'll just be CC'd to death constantly.

I find my server's alliance side rarely has control of WG, so I stopped even trying to help up front and just defend towers where only a few horde come and since I always have several stacks of this I'm able to destroy them.

While I honestly love kicking the crap out of several allies at once like I'm the best player ever. This buff doesn't make it PvP anymore. Just a slaughter. Like ganking lowbies only I still get honor for it. Also it doesn't really change the outcome that much if the out numbering side knows what their doing. Alliance on my server almost never have WG, even when we almost always have 20 stacks of it.

Comentario de shohanu

Resto druid + Arcane mage, we had 20 of this buff i put HoT spells on and mage blinked into a crowd, frost nova and arcane explosion them all to death...this buff can be the potential to ALOT of honor points

Comentario de 211100

Don't forget that the opposite team can send a few guys at you that will CC and kill you slower, but still kill you, while sending others to destroy buildings/towers/capture workshops.

Comentario de 255458

Tenacity certainly helps your side, but it isn't as -horribly imbalanced- as some have made it out to be. The big thing is that this buff does nothing for stun/fear/snare/cc reduction. All the damage and health in the world won't help you if you can't actually control your character.

Comentario de 267417

Hopsy, I definitely disagree with you because for example:

A feral druid/warrior/paladin/dk already takes about 10+ ppl on em to take em down and the only way to take em down is to stun/fear/snare/cc them. If tenacity also added that kind of reduction on top of the increased dmg/health etc it would make that single player "god-like" because they wouldn't have to worry about stuns and what not and just be able to go all out.

Maybe I'm pushing it a bit, I guess some stun/fear/cc/snare resistance would be good, but if they manage to have 20 stacks of Tenacity, like most ally do on my server, then it still wouldn't help you a whole lot in the end.

Comentario de Malvard

This shouldnt buff AOE!
AOE doesnt need buffing when your outnumbered. heres why

You are outnumbered 5 to 1

your aoe spell does 5x dmg
soudsn fair right?
Wrong

If yoru outnumbered 5 to 1, that means theres 5x as many opponents out there, and it means your gonna be hitting on average, 5 times as many opponents with ur AoE spell

so in reality, your aoe would be doing 25x normal damage

its fine to buff abilities that hit a limited number of targets, like Blade Fury

But the fact someone can just spam Fan of Knives or Arcane explosion and kill dozens of ppl with ease is Ridiculous

Comentario de 78037

Added to "blizz-fails-at.txt"

Comentario de agpaladin

I see a million posts saying "If they have a few characters with stacks get organized and take them down with numbers..."

Why not just take the buff out completely and use that same excuse for the outnumbered? Why give them anything for of balancing factor, if your team is consistently outnumbered in WG, get better organized and match their numbers.

There was no balancing factor with Halaa, and the multiple servers I play on Ive yet to see one side hold it ALL THE TIME. Sure, one side or the other held it a lot, but not always, so it wasnt zone restriction.

Just take the buff out, Blizzard doesnt mind letting us get late-night zerged in Warsong or AV, so why the special treatment with world pvp? If one gets a balancing factor, they all should. Or better yet, none should get balanced and leave it up to player involved organization and skill and not some wonky blizzard system.

Comentario de Jinton

How much do you need to be outnumbered by to get one stack?

I.e. what are the ratios for tenacity?

Comentario de 316564

It really sucks when you're in a siege engine and you see a mage crit your vehicle for 20k, kinda makes you wanna get away as fast as you freaking can.

Comentario de 316564

coldviper18 said:

While I honestly love kicking the crap out of several allies at once like I'm the best player ever. This buff doesn't make it PvP anymore. Just a slaughter. Like ganking lowbies only I still get honor for it. Also it doesn't really change the outcome that much if the out numbering side knows what their doing. Alliance on my server almost never have WG, even when we almost always have 20 stacks of it.

Talemare said:

Unless the mage blinks into the middle of your pack and uses a nova spell and you all die.... instantly (refering to CC weakness)

On my server, alliance dominates wintergrasp (sometimes holding it for over 48 hours straight), simply because we know how to vastly outnumber the horde and use our numbers to our advantage. Of course, the horde aren't sending out just a few people, I only usually ever see tenacity stacked to about 12. Usually, in battlegrounds, this is the complete opposite, but since they made this so important to anyone in northrend, EVERYONE is motivated on my faction. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean that they will move as a unit.

We hardly ever strategize past, "TAKE THE FACTORIES!" or "WEST WALL STUPID!" while the horde (in battlegrounds) completely rely on each other and even have designated healers. Though even with this immense ability for strategy, if you took on a horde on even terms on my server, chances are you'd rape them sideways. The lack of skill is surprising (even some units ~lv60 who will just sit there while you whack on them and try to heal through it) to where even 1 on 3, we can still win. In fact, just yesterday when I was in Wintergrasp, me (unholy death knight) and a warlock took on another death knight with an 11 stack of tenacity. The horde death knight had dropped in on the lock, and was running about because of Howl of Terror when I arrived. Basically, all I did was sick my ghoul on him and use Chains of Ice while the warlock dps'ed him down. He made no other attempts to try and Death Grip someone or defend himself (he didn't even attack my ghoul).

Comentario de Reunilana

Too bad it only stacks to 20. My Dk in tanking gear has 250.000. But if this thing could stack too 100. 1:100 players
2 milion hit points.

Comentario de 345174

This is the version that is given to players (and pets, I believe) in Wintergrasp for the side that is outnumbered (and has it).
The version that is used for all vehicles usable by the side with Tenacity is Tenacity. This version only increases health for the tanks, so they do not ridiculously one-shot people.

Comentario de 378830

Fought a rogue with lots of tenacity stacks today. He was obliterating groups with adren rush+fok spam. Funny.

Comentario de 385145

I love all the comments on how you beat someone up while having tenacity. Could someone please tell me what the ratio of players is per stack of tenacity? And as to some the comments on here, no amount of tenacity is going to help when getting gangbanged after 20 people destroy your siege engine. Doesn't help at all when the first thing that happens is 8 to 10 people stun you. Ooo.. my trinket got me out of one, but what about the other 15 people there to molest me. Sorry... a little venting after another ass-whooping in WG where we had 7 people trying to attack and we had a tenacity of 5. I just wanted to know how many Allies we were up against. And everywhere I have looked cannot seem to tell me anything. Thanks...

Comentario de 391247

tenacity needs to be buffed more for imbalanaced servers. last time I played wg, we were outnumbered 20+:1 and we still lost. for a solution, i would nerf the op side so its easier to capture on 2:1 server population

Comentario de Thecanman

It really doesn't help much when your outnumbered by more than 2.5-1. If you're outnumbered by a lot, you're not going to win.

Comentario de 177096

On my server we organized so that one mage would be in WG on our (Horde) side.

He won,

1 against 200ish.

Edit: Grammar Fail.

Comentario de 98497

Wintergrasp is supposedly going to be more like a BG in the future (3.2.0?).
Players will be using a queue system, and the amount of players will be limited to X. Meaning both sides will be more balanced, and hopefully, tenacity won't be needed.

Edit: What I've experienced so far from 3.2.0, is that the teams are more balanced, and even though tenacity is still present, I hardly see stacks of more than 3.
Might be different on other servers though.

Comentario de 303387

Will it still exist at patch 3.2 where u get in queue of 100 ppl to enter wintergrasp?

Comentario de 129077

I saw a Mage with 79k health.
Sometimes tenacity can help but, when theres ten near raid boss people. It only takes the Allies of Draktharon about 5 mins to take WG.

Although we take it back because were badass but still. Firebolt shouldnt hit for 89k. WG is great it just needs some balancing

Comentario de 224864

i was messing around with the profiler, i made a tauren prot warrior with pretty much the top gear i could find on the site.

he had about 43k unbuffed, 58k with raid buffs, 85k with cd's (trinket that gave 5k hp+ last stand) with a 20 stack of tenacity, he had roughly 380,351 HP. So 20 stacks of tenacity, and you would be fighting heroic boss's or raid trash.

Comentario de 306560

The Trick to getting this buff...: ROLL A HORDE!

Comentario de Tontel

boss's

Greetings from the AAA.

Comentario de matoh

This can be a bad buff,, it increase your max health but not current, therefore your percentage might be actualy decrease,,

you may get Executed of Hammer of Wrath-ed as soon as you got some stack because your percentage of your health will be lower

Comentario de Kroul

Chaos Bolt hits you for 64834 Fire damage. (Critical)
You die.

Comentario de SaXxXaS

You have to love druid who go bear form and eat you with 10+ stacks of this.

You try so hard, and fail even harder, Improved Leader of the Pack is not fair with tenacity.

Comentario de 500558

erk guys..whos know were can get the tenacity buff..lss help me

Comentario de 426611

After doing some math, i found that (As of 3.3.0), with 20 stacks of Tenacity and SotF, a druid properly spec'd for tanking could have 2,058,464.332 HP. Using https://www.wowhead.com/wotlk/compare=51295:51296:51297:51298:51299:50682:50718:50707:50607:50361:50364:50603:50622:50642:50670 , BoK, BoS, Power Word:Fort(Max rank& talented), MotW(Max rank and talented), and commanding shout. Gems and enchants-
19(one extra using belt buckles) +30 stamina gems,
https://www.wowhead.com/wotlk/item=44150, https://www.wowhead.com/wotlk/item=44957,https://www.wowhead.com/wotlk/spell=57690. Multipliers- 3 x1.1(BoK, BoS, King of the jungle), 1 x1.06(SotF), 1 x1.04(IMotW), 1 x1.30(SotF), 1 x1.25(Bear furm!).

More or less, that's a raid boss in WG if he has healers.

Edit- Imp Leader of the pack would be healing for 82338. CC Will be needed.

Comentario de wildowned1995

On Emeriss, Horde never get this buff, even if we are 5 and the allys are 10, they will ALWAYS have the @#$%ing tenacity buff
gg blizz, retarded if you ask me

Comentario de hazmatt

Gnome DK with 150k hp and 20kdps = awesome

"What the-"THUMP

Comentario de 235214

I don't know why this is so highly rated as it's simply wrong.

Even with the recent changes to WG where the side that loses a lot gets instant rank, a bunch of disorganised monkeys can defend it when they have the numbers.

In a battle with 10 tenacity you have around 66k HP (scaled from 18k base for example) and vehicles have around 330k with scaling from item level (from a base of 84k). Now with 10 tenacity it's likely there are 90-100 more of the opposition there and even with 66k hp you lose it quickly from a couple of players attacking - from the stuns, the cc etc. A rogue and a pally can take down someone with 66k hp with no problem it just takes a bit longer. The vehicles, even grouped, are easily decimated with aoe effects and general class damage. A stack of 8 sieges will usually be destroyed before they even get to the walls by a group of 10-20 players.

If you are attacking with tenacity, say you have 40 and other side have 120 - you have 66k hp but you have to simultaneously defend your towers, defend your siege shops, defend the sieges and attack with 3 people for every 1 of you. Or, to look at it another way, 40 defence in keep, 40 on the sieges, 40 to kill the towers.

The depressing thing is being there with your 10 tenacity, seeing opposition with 16 sieges using them to basically melee the raid, at the foot of broken temple ramp.

You may dislike tenacity but speaking from experience of a bad realm (80-90% alliance), we generally win only at silly times like 1-5am. I kept a log over the 2 weeks (using the figures from the book inside voa) and of 130 battles, horde won 39 and the majority were late night ones.

===============

Just as an aside, a random look at the win rates from the log as of now:

(as of 9th June 2010)
Horde -
Defended: 327
Captured: 1160

Alliance -
Defended: 1869
Captured: 1159

Compare with 11th September 2010 (3 months later)
Horde -
Defended: 412
Captured: 1323

Alliance -
Defended: 2338
Captured: 1322

In 3 months, Horde managed 85 defences vs Alliance defending 469 times and 163 captures each. 880 games - 71.8% win ratio. Given tenacity is meant to balance out uneven faction size, I'm sure you can see the difference tenacity (doesn't) make?

Compare again with a 3rd edit, 14th November (2 months on)

Horde -
Defended: 474
Captured: 1429

Alliance -
Defended: 2671
Captured: 1428

Over the course of 5 months or 1487 games, Horde have managed 147 defences vs 802 alliance defences. Horde and Alliance have both captured 269 times.

Horde wins = 416 or 27.98%
Alliance wins = 1071 or 72.02%

The key problems with WG are the hp of siege vehicles and the aoe/damage of players vs sieges. In a run with 8-12 sieges, in a game, even with 0 tenacity, it is typical for all the siege engines to die before they get to the keep. The sieges should have been changed after a month, let alone ignoring it for 18 months or so. The vehicles in Ulduar had the right idea - mass HP, scaled with gear, approaching 1.5m hp + with 251/264/277 gear plus a charge and shield. THAT is what should have been in WG, with the hp of vehicles scaling with the damage players do with better gear.

Comentario de 360629

How Tenacity actually works in-game, as opposed to theory...

Capturing bases: Useless. If you have 3 players trying to capture a base, with Tenacity 20, 5-6 enemy players can keep that base from changing sides because base control depends entirely on NUMBERS. They can die, run back from GY, and you'll never even budge the control meter. Never mind that Tenacity won't help you cover as many areas of the map.

Survival: Worthless. You're outnumbered 10:1 and have 3x as much health. Doesn't take a genius to see that you're still going to go splat within seconds. The scaling is far, far behind how outnumbered you are. Honestly, it doesn't even add a second to your survival when it comes to a gang of players suddenly nuking you.

Damage: Decent, but good luck hitting anyone. With so many opposing players, you will spend 100% of your time within damage range stunned/feared/rooted/knocked back/snared/silenced/etc.. In short, you won't hit many people, and they'll have enough extra healers to make up for it anyway.

Tenacity fails. I can't believe Blizzard has actually nerfed it on multiple occasions. The logical thing to do would be to allow Tenacity stacks to help you control bases, and also limit how much it buffs you at minimal stacks (to prevent it being overpowered) while ramping it up exponentially once you hit 5+ stacks. You should basically be hitting like Arthas by the time it hits 15+, because you won't win even if you are.

Comentario de 283503

Does this buff affect ranged attacks? Because i don't see any change in my ranged at all, except that it shows more damage when i press C.

Comentario de wowmasta228

If you had 20 stacks of Tenacity, it would show up like this:

Tenacity:
Health increased by 360%.
Healing taken increased by 360%.
Health regen increased by 360%.
Damage done increased by 280%.

You'd be almost impossible to beat.

Comentario de 95740

this buff is nerfed now. If you're outnumbered you can't win. Period.

been outnumbered 2-1 does not help you if you do 30% more damage or you have 40% more hp. You can't win. Also the heal buff is much less than your hp buff so you can't heal the incoming damage.

I don't think this buff applies to the vehicles so it's useless.

If you attack and you're outnumbered, there are so many defenders in the main yard, you can't do a thing because of the lag.

If you defend there will be so many attackers that you can't kill all of them and you're the one killed with the buff or not. You're cc by 2-3 players and you can't do anything about this.

Bottom line, this buff does not make up for been outnumbered. It did at patch 3.0 but not anymore. Back there you were out numbered 10 to 4 and you could win such a fight.

This is another BS from blizzard.

Comentario de DarkShadows59

Either I don't think this buff applies to spells or resilience rating is applied before the damage is done and reduces it by a ridiculous amount. I just got out of a WG where the Horde dominated us and we had tenacity of 9. My conflag spell was only doing 3.5k on the low end and my chaos bolt only did crits of about 15k (normal heroic/solo damage).

Comentario de arano101

Suggestion: To balance things out instead of giving tenacity to outnumbered people, give the outnumbering side a debuff called Lag.

Comentario de 104412

The most notable one I saw was when the Alliance had 22 stacks of Tenacity. And yes, the Horde still won.

Cool story bro.

Comentario de Dojo33

I HAVE THE POWER OF A THOUSAND SUUUUUUUNNNNNSS!

Enlaces

Tenacidad

Tenacidad
Alcance de 100 m
Instante

Estar en inferioridad numérica ha aumentado tu tenacidad, mejorando tu salud, sanación y regeneración de salud un 18% y aumentando el daño que infliges un 14%.

Mejora

Tenacidad

Salud aumentada un 18%.
Sanación recibida aumentada un 18%.
Regeneración de salud aumentada un 18%.
Daño infligido aumentado un 14%.
30 minutos restantes

Detalles de hechizos

Duración

30 minutos

Escuela

Física

Mecanica

n/d

Tipo de disipación

n/d

Categoría GCD

n/d

Costo

Ninguno

Rango

100 metros (Vision)

Tiempo de lanzamiento

Instante

Reutilización

n/d

GCD

0 segundos

Efecto #1

Apply Aura: [Mod Increase Maximum Health - %]
Valor: 18%
Multiplicador JcJ: 1

Efecto #2

Apply Aura: [Mod Damage Done %] (Arcano, Escarcha, Fuego, Física, Naturaleza, Sagrado, Sombras)
Valor: 14%
Multiplicador JcJ: 1

Efecto #3

Apply Aura: [Periodic Dummy]
Valor: 47803 cada 30 segundos
Multiplicador JcJ: 1

Banderas

Se puede utilizar estando muerto
Se puede utilizar estando montado
Se puede utilizar sentado
El aura no se puede cancelar
No rompe el sigilo
No genera amenza
Permite Objetivo Muerto
[Ignore Line of Sight]
Permitir mientras invisible
No requiere cambio de forma
[Not an Action]
[Suppress Caster Procs]
No ataca al objetivo
Persiste luego de muerto
Permite Lanzamiento de Hechizos durante Lanzamiento de Hechizos
[Aura Never Bounces]
[Suppress Weapon Procs]
Se puede utilizar estando aturdido
Comienzan los "ticks" con la aplicación del aura
[Do Not Display Duration]
Utilizable mientras se esta aterrorizado
Utilizable mientras se esta confuso
[Ignore Target Requirements]
[Not an Attack]
Permitir mientras conduce vehículo

Tenacidad

Mejora

Detalles de hechizos

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