Timer Penalty for Deaths Removed from +2 and +3 Mythic+ Keystones

Posted 2025/03/06 at 7:32 PM by Squishei

With a hotfix that is now live to all realms:

Deaths no longer remove time from the timer in Mythic Keystone levels 2 and 3.

In Season 2, we’ve introduced changes to Mythic+ that are designed to provide a smoother entry point for newer players. In addition to these keystone levels being free of affixes, the goal of this change is to add an extra layer of accessibility for those just starting out.

Comment by AthDravimagine over timing a +3 cause of the death penaltyComment by Tchernobylimagine over timing a +3 cause of the death penaltyComment by WarlockjenIMO timers are too tight and the learning curve is really high for some of the bosses. Esp the ones that have something like 5 mechanics at the same time, it's really overkill. I expected to be in 6s this week. We won't be doing past 2. Yikes.Comment by ancineniNot sure how much difference it really makes.
The 5 sec penalty was never really significant, the 15 sec one is what was obnoxious.

I think it would be a lot better they would just release the dungeons with proper tuning which they wont have to nerf in any significant way later on.
I know its a big ask to get the math right after two decades, but still.

Imagine a season where the difficulty does not magically gets halved every other week, but instead remains constant apart from the natural gear related changes.Comment by WchrBig W for making m+ more approachable for new players.Comment by Ruenan94I mean it's a nice change for a full group of friends wanting to try M+ but full pugs 1 wipe-quit mentality is just near impossible to overcome in pugs. Low keys pugging just feels like walking on eggshells due to the toxicty that's in there. I had a better experience with pugs in 10s finishing up portals last season than originally working on 6s and 7s for KSM it's just wild how in a low key how much toxic it is while in higher ones yes toxic people are still out there but there's not as many because most of your toxic low players aren't gonna climb that high. That and its week 1 so pugging is like full on D-Day right nowComment by WchrIMO timers are too tight and the learning curve is really high for some of the bosses. Esp the ones that have something like 5 mechanics at the same time, it's really overkill. I expected to be in 6s this week. We won't be doing past 2. Yikes.Comment by uncommondoorI think this is a fair change. Their reasoning is fair and logical.Comment by AlakeiThancanimagine over timing a +3 cause of the death penaltyComment by DristereauFor some reason thought this already was a thing in +2s but I've not got around/forced myself into keys yet this Season. I think this helps as a step up from M0s with just adding a Timer and the Death Penalty kicking in at +4 so people can get into Mythic+ easier hopefully.Comment by VerroquisIt's been 7ish months of Blizzard walking back massively unpopular changes/"features" that literally only the top 1% of players are asking for. I don't think the game mode has a real identity anymore, it's torn between minmax speedrunners and the average player.

I think Blizzard needs to go back to the drawing board (again, unsurprisingly) and just make two game modes for M+: challenge mode (timed) and conquest mode (untimed.) Give each different affixes to deal with, and push the timed version as the one we've seen with rewards etc, and conquest mode a more casual-friendly experience without a timer where you can still push and etc.

I can guarantee that having a timer or not, and adjusting a few affixes to be there or not depending on the mode, would fix a lot of the problem.

Conquest mode can be like delves/other games where you have to defeat each level in order to do the next level, or like Fractals in GW2 where doing a higher level advances your personal level by 1 (so if your personal level is a 4 and you complete a 10, you advance to a 5.) Keep keystones for Challenge mode.Comment by TOMRUSBandaid on bandaid on bandaid...

How about you fix source of problem instead? May be you don't know what the problem is? I can give you a hint: it's absurdly high enemy HP and damage. And you have been warned about it during PTR, but instead of fixing it you choose to ignore all feedback just like you always do. And here we are...Comment by Faol4n90Not sure how much difference it really makes.
The 5 sec penalty was never really significant, the 15 sec one is what was obnoxious.

I think it would be a lot better they would just release the dungeons with proper tuning which they wont have to nerf in any significant way later on.
I know its a big ask to get the math right after two decades, but still.

Imagine a season where the difficulty does not magically gets halved every other week, but instead remains constant apart from the natural gear related changes.Comment by VampyrrIt's been 7ish months of Blizzard walking back massively unpopular changes/"features" that literally only the top 1% of players are asking for. I don't think the game mode has a real identity anymore, it's torn between minmax speedrunners and the average player.

I think Blizzard needs to go back to the drawing board (again, unsurprisingly) and just make two game modes for M+: challenge mode (timed) and conquest mode (untimed.) Give each different affixes to deal with, and push the timed version as the one we've seen with rewards etc, and conquest mode a more casual-friendly experience without a timer where you can still push and etc.

I can guarantee that having a timer or not, and adjusting a few affixes to be there or not depending on the mode, would fix a lot of the problem.

Conquest mode can be like delves/other games where you have to defeat each level in order to do the next level, or like Fractals in GW2 where doing a higher level advances your personal level by 1 (so if your personal level is a 4 and you complete a 10, you advance to a 5.) Keep keystones for Challenge mode.Comment by SeniaaNot sure how much difference it really makes.
The 5 sec penalty was never really significant, the 15 sec one is what was obnoxious.

I think it would be a lot better they would just release the dungeons with proper tuning which they wont have to nerf in any significant way later on.
I know its a big ask to get the math right after two decades, but still.

Imagine a season where the difficulty does not magically gets halved every other week, but instead remains constant apart from the natural gear related changes.Comment by TastelikelemonWith so overtuned M+ dungeons , some bosses are impossible for 80% of the pugs on even +2 and +3 , as healing and target requirement on such low keys are extremely punishable atm if not met , where its suppose to be chill and enjoyable runs at those levels...if Blizz did such ridiculus tuning only cuz of world first to nerf everything like raids , m+ , some delves and what not on the 2nd week , i might pretty much start playing after RWF is done , id perfer it dies even so i can finally enjoy the game which is not targeted at the top 0.01% of the player base.Comment by KuroihanaI kinda feel poeple who complain here..are just very bad and want to do higher content with no effort at all..go hc dungeons or m0 ... dont cry here because youre too weak and badComment by JoachimExitusPlebs will cry until death penalty is removed from whole M+Comment by grayshirtOkay... I think this is swinging the needle too far the other way.

I get -15 felt overly punishing
but in the same vein -0 feels way too forgiving for this level of content.Comment by BrimzStreamers who play PTR all day were having problems at 13-14 in max gear, what did they expect in the lower key levels with ~S1 gear? LMAO

Been doing a lot of m+ in the lower levels, people usually ~630 and the +2 +3s are clownfiestas with double digit death counters.
Doing 2 group of mobs at the same time ends up with a wipe BUT at least most of the groups Ive been in instantly said "ok maybe it was too much" and we have to pull 1by1.

Maybe if Blizz stop tuning for RWFMDITGP, issues like this wouldnt happen. 2-3s should be entry level, that -10level change created a huge problem that Blizzard clearly cant solve, so instead of tuning down enemy dps/HP (and end up 10s being 20s just like before the change and make them realize level squish was a bad idea) they remove death counter which doesnt solve the problem either.