The Future of Raid Encounter Design: Part 2 of Wowhead's Exclusive 11.2 Interview

Posted 2025/06/18 at 2:03 PM by Wowhead

Looking Back on Liberation of Undermine

How do you view Mythic Gallywix’s overall difficulty in hindsight? The RWF found it kind of disappointing from a throughput perspective, but from a mechanical perspective a lot of the guilds getting there now, the feedback has largely been positive as a fight to progress.

Taylor: Yeah, so the Race to World First, I think aside, these are generally really dedicated folks and it's a small group of our players. I think feedback has largely been positive on the difficulty, as you say, with Mythic Gallywix. Mechanically, I think it's a great fight, it's visually spectacular, I think. From a narrative perspective as well, it's a great fitting in for one of WoW's most iconic and persistent villains across its history. From a difficulty perspective, I think where it's landed for the general community is reasonable. I think where we may have done things differently in hindsight is its difficulty relative to the boss preceding it. Mug’zee was very difficult, and it was fairly unprecedented in modern WoW that the penultimate boss and the final boss were so close together in their difficulty. So we would have liked a little bit bigger of a gap there between those two encounters, but Mythic Gallywix, I think ultimately was a great fight for the vast majority of players getting there during Mythic progression outside of maybe the tippy top echelon of our rated community.

We saw Mythic Gallywix had a completely different design compared to the Heroic encounter and was almost completely secret. What was the goal there?

Taylor: Yeah, so anytime we go into designing the Mythic version of an end boss we always bounce around the idea of “What can we offer our highest echelon of raiding players, something that is new from the lower typical versions of the encounter?” We want that to both be a challenge -- these are players who have devoted a huge amount of time and resources to get to the end game of this game mode – but also as a reward. You're there to see something new that a lot of other players don't get the chance to see through your your skill and dedication to the game, so it's a great opportunity to be able to offer players something that's kind of new and jaw dropping right when they get to that threshold of the mythic in boss for the first time. The reorganization of the phases or Gallywix getting into his mech early and the mythic version of the encounter is a way where we can use some of those existing elements of the encounter, and “rearrange the puzzle” so to speak, so that players have to immediately recognize new strategies or a new approach to the encounters. So anywhere where we can use existing elements and aspects of the encounter and just immediately flip things on its head, require players to come in, tackle things from a new perspective is always an opportunity we jump at for mythic and bosses.
Looking Back on Liberation of Undermine

One of the things that we had between different bosses in Liberation of Undermine was encounters that randomly assigned things such as Stix or Sprocket versus encounters that were pre-assigned like Gallywix. What did you learn about having these different types of mechanics? And are there plans to lean one way or the other going forwards?

Taylor: This is a really interesting question, I could talk about this one for a very long time. I think a great raid has a mix of both. A core part of raiding gameplay in a World of Warcraft is the ability to continue, tackling a challenge and through collaboration, planning, and strategy, improve at that challenge as a team. It's one of the few games where you can get together with 19 or up to 29 other friends and really come up with a strategy sitting around the boss looking at your raid ahead of time and feel like you can have the fruits of that labor. But that being said, we also want elements in the encounter that require a little bit of on the fly decision making things that can keep pulls feeling fresh from one pull to the next. The right balance there is really important. Some fights can be entirely pre-planned, some fights are going to require a little bit more on your feet thinking, and I think that's a healthy thing for a raid. We're going to continue to embrace both types of difficulty and try to strike the right balance for what we love about the game and what we think players love.

We saw dungeon complexity difficulty decrease last season, which led to a lot of players seemingly having more fun. Recently we've seen a lot of feedback from Mythic guilds that Mythic raid has been getting harder and harder and less fun due to the ever increasing complexity. Are there plans to do kind of a complexity decrease for the raid in season 3?

Taylor: Yeah, good question. We've been listening of course to all the feedback that's come from Season 2. We're really glad that players are enjoying their time in M+. The companion to that, of course, is mythic raiding and there's probably some room to to pull back a bit on difficulty in Season 3, but not all difficulty is really created the same. There's difficulty that can come from your ability to control your character - dodge lasers, pick up bombs, carry them from place to place. There's difficulty that can come from how much time and effort you've dedicated to your character, and your gear. There's difficulty that can come from how good your strategy and your ability to collaborate with other players is. I think we may try to pull back slightly on the first of those - the twitchiness of gameplay. That, I think, is a place where we'd like to take raiding, overall in the future, is a place that's a little bit more about strategy and your ability to play your character at a very high level. That doesn't mean the types of gameplay that we've all known and loved from even the time back in Naxxramas like the Heigan Dance, that's a Classic Wow mechanic and stuff like that isn't going anywhere. But I do think over the last couple expansions we've probably trended a little bit too far into the Dodge mechanic and all of our difficulty or the lion's share of our difficulty is coming from that style of mechanic. So, I don't think there's a major philosophical shift, but it's something we're keeping in mind as we're going into the Ghosts of Ka’resh update.

It seems that some mechanics don't give players enough time. Like for Sprocket mines, you had to space them almost perfectly apart before the mechanic came in and blew you up, and similarly with Mug’zee Jails or Stix Scrapmasters before the nerf. Players have shown that if you give them enough time, they will solve it naturally, such as Gallywix bombs. So, what is your goal with raid fight difficulty in 11.2 but before the add-on changes take effect, do you want to give players more time there?

Taylor: We often call this concept “affordance’’. So when a mechanic goes out, we want to make sure that players have not only the right amount of time but the right amount of visual and audio feedback in order to respond to a mechanic. There are probably a couple places in 11.1 where we could have given more for players to respond to because as you mentioned in your question where players don't feel they have the apt ability to respond to that and the right affordance for a mechanic, they’ll often go towards other solutions like writing Weakauras or using add-ons for that type of response. So, it’s something that's very top of mind for us, especially coming off the back of a couple of very twitchy fights in Liberation of Undermine. So, we're examining all those areas and Ghosts of K’aresh and making sure that for Manaforge: Omega, which is the raid that will be coming with the update, that we pay very close attention to areas of affordance that we may need to pull back on.

That’s awesome. I know you guys have been responding to feedback well with Broodtwister in Nerub’ar Palace, that was a private aura at the start and everyone was like “Oh God”, and then you guys fixed that. So that was awesome.

Taylor: In cases like that, and I think Ion has spoke to this in past interviews, but we've often found that private auras can be worse than the problem they're trying to solve, so I think some of our philosophy there has evolved over time listening to player feedback and just understanding when these things hit live servers, how players are interacting with them. Private Auras were always an experiment and trying to get raids to a point where they're more interactive – where players are making those decisions and we're moving that away from computational add-ons and I think we've learned a lot over the last couple years especially of raiding about how and when to use those effectively and making sure we're not exacerbating an already, a difficult problem.

We haven't really explored the “communication” or “information asymmetry“ mechanics that are relatively prevalent in other encounters, such as Mekkatorque colors. These mechanics technically wouldn't need add-ons, so are there plans to use these types or explore these types of mechanics again with all the changes coming to add-ons?

Taylor: The short answer is absolutely. I think in the future, as Ion spoke about, as we move away from add-ons that can help with in-combat computational, problem solving, it opens up a big space for us to do that. This is again calling back to classic raids, we've had these types of problems in WoW for a very long time, back to the days of Prophet Skeram in AQ40, and that's a really cool problem space that in part we haven't been able to explore for a while because of the effect of computational add-ons and combat. I for one, am looking forward to one day when we can get back to a little bit more of those, and there's probably more we can do in the meantime as well, so we're gonna keep looking for opportunities to make those type of unique mechanics with each raid tier.

Drew: I want to add a little bit to what Taylor has to say. I think another good call out here specifically is that these feel like raid mechanics where you're going to spend a couple of pulls with your friends and we kind of want you in there communicating. It's probably something we would do less in a dungeon. I'll cite an example actually with Tazavesh coming back, we're actually moving the code breaker boss Hylbrande. This is an example of the kind of mechanic you're talking about and that's moving to the hard mode version of the mechanic where we expect you to be in a coordinated group and the M+ experience with pugs might not have something like that and we'll alter the mechanic.

So it might just show the code the entire time to everyone?

Drew: Yeah. In that setting, and when we want a coordinated group where you're with a trusted group of friends, you're kind of signing up for maybe multiple attempts at a boss, that's a more appropriate space for this kind of mechanic. So we're open to doing more of this, but that doesn't mean we're going to do it everywhere.
Looking Ahead to Manaforge: Omega

Do you feel like the future of raiding relies more on throughput checks like One Armed Bandit or mechanical checks like Gallywix?

Taylor: So we touched on this a bit earlier. Maybe I'm taking the easy way out here, but the short answer is both. Improving your character, gaining better loot, coming back the next week, having put in that effort throughout the game is going to be a core part of WoW for a very long time. That's really the core and the heart of what we love about a season of World of Warcraft. Mechanical checks will still be something in WoW for a very long time. So I think dividing it into that area that we talked about earlier of dodgy, agility type mechanics and also strategic mechanics that you can plan ahead for a little bit and tackle as a team, we're planning to lean a little bit more towards the latter and less towards the former going forward, so that's probably how I would divide that and talk about our future plans for how we're planning to tackle difficulty in raids. That being said, this isn't a binary thing. A really good encounter and at large a really good raid has all types of different difficulty, where we're blessed to have all kinds of different raid encounters in every raid and we want to make sure that we scratch every itch, that we offer all kinds of different difficulty for players who may might enjoy different types of raid encounters.

Are there any plans to change the way the mythic raid lockout works?

Taylor: No plans to announce at this time. Would love to hear feedback on how players think the Mythic Raid lockout is working for them, but messing with Mythic Raid lockout, it's a delicate thing. Communities really form the heart of World of Warcraft and messing with something as core to how people schedule their weeks or schedule their social groups, that's something that we wanna do very deliberately with a very clear goal in mind and take a lot of care in how we approach that problem.

What is the thing that you are most excited for in Ghosts of Ka’resh?

Drew: I'm going to steal Taylor's answer. Dimensius is awesome. You haven't seen a boss like this before, and I'm going to cheat and do two things, I actually think our dungeon pool is awesome. I don't know if you've seen it yet, but it's gonna be a great season.

Taylor: I want to reiterate Drew there, Dimensius is going to be an absolute feast… {pauses}

Drew: Well said.

Taylor: … for the eyes. It's an incredible encounter. Our encounter designers, effects artists, sound designers, dungeon artists, it's a whole army of people who've put a huge amount of effort into this and I just can't wait for players to get their hands on it.

Patch 11.2: Ghosts of K'aresh

Class Updates

Dungeons & Mythic+

Interviews

Delves Updates

S3 Delve Nemises: Ky'veza

New Raid - Manaforge: Omega

WoW's Biggest Boss Ever

Comment by Lynexia1lol the first response... "we dont care about RWF, the game isn't made for them it's made for everyone"

I'm loving this energy. absolutely ace response.Comment by nameer1230Are there any plans to change the way the mythic raid lockout works?

Taylor: No plans to announce at this time. Would love to hear feedback on how players think the Mythic Raid lockout is working for them, but messing with Mythic Raid lockout, it's a delicate thing. Communities really form the heart of World of Warcraft and messing with something as core to how people schedule their weeks or schedule their social groups, that's something that we wanna do very deliberately with a very clear goal in mind and take a lot of care in how we approach that problem.Comment by westomoprestoactions speak louder than interviews
looking forward to a WoW where you dont need 30 addons to clear a fight designed by devs using addons...Comment by Amohell881 From a difficulty perspective, I think where it's landed for the general community is reasonable.but also as a reward. You're there to see something new that a lot of other players don't get the chance to see through your your skill and dedication to the game, so it's a great opportunity to be able to offer players something that's kind of new and jaw dropping right when they get to that threshold of the mythic in boss for the first time. “rearrange the puzzle” so to speak, so that players have to immediately recognize new strategies or a new approach to the encountersComment by KodokuTenshilol the first response... "we dont care about RWF, the game isn't made for them it's made for everyone"

I'm loving this energy. absolutely ace response.Comment by CorpselanceThey say all this and then give us Ky'veza as the Delve Nemesis with even faster and more lines to dodge. smh.Comment by AotaMythic raiding is in its worst state right now. The 20-man lockout requires way too much time and dedication for the vast majority of players. It will never be as accessible or inclusive as Mythic+ simply because of the number of players it demands.

We need to go back to 10-man lockouts so that even pug players have a chance to try it. As it stands, Mythic raiding isn’t unreachable because of difficulty, but because of the unrealistic expectations that many guilds have.Comment by DerelictBazingalol the first response... "we dont care about RWF, the game isn't made for them it's made for everyone"

I'm loving this energy. absolutely ace response.Comment by GruselMythic Gallywix would have been fine for the average mythic CE guild if blizzard didnt decide to put out 20% buff, turbophase itemlevel buff and Boss Nerfs at the same time. Would have been about 150-200 Pulls which is reasonable for the last boss and that creates a feeling of elation when you do actually kill the boss.

As it is right now mythic gallywix is a complete letdown. None of the mechanics is really dangerous, P2 and P3 plays mostly the same without much happening. There are no healing or dps checks you can work on, nothing that really needs to be optimized and you can easily go from best pull 30% to kill in back to back trys. Nothing screams EPIC END BOSS FIGHT. I was more hyped killing Painsmith in shadowlands then killing this iconic? boss.

On top of that 99% of mechanics is "dodge that circle" if you are not one of the players assigned to play bombs. Calling this mechaniclly and visually stunning is copium of the highest order.

And just because there is a loud group of players that dont really care about the challenge of mythic raiding and just want a fast achievement and gear, this should not be a reason to deleting challenge in the game. Overcoming challenges is what makes mythic raiding so great in wow. Of course most poeple dont like the 300-400 try bosses but gallywix cant be called anything other then a big failureComment by MakeGameGoodPlzlol the first response... "we dont care about RWF, the game isn't made for them it's made for everyone"

I'm loving this energy. absolutely ace response.Comment by Amohell881Mythic Gallywix would have been fine for the average mythic CE guild if blizzard didnt decide to put out 20% buff, turbophase itemlevel buff and Boss Nerfs at the same time. Would have been about 150-200 Pulls which is reasonable for the last boss and that creates a feeling of elation when you do actually kill the boss.Comment by KolplerFerrilol the first response... "we dont care about RWF, the game isn't made for them it's made for everyone"

I'm loving this energy. absolutely ace response.Comment by BrimzMDI has its own realm. TGP has its own realm. WHERE THE FK IS RWF'S OWN REALM?

Almost every problem in this game connected to difficulty is risen from fact they want to make the game for the 0.1% and lower the difficulty overtime. Thats it.

With RWF having its own realm Blizz could tune however they would want Mythic raid for the RWF (and not ending it under a disappointing 4-5 days instead of 1-2 weeks)
Items would be provided so no need useless HC farm week before they start doing Mythic bosses and this would stop burning out for players (I usually watch Liquid's players and let me tell you for the first 1-2 days they having fun, on the 4-5th day doing the 34636th HC farm for gear they look devastated and "why am I here") and finally civilians could engage the raid without waiting for nerfs/having 50 weakauras ready just because they tune raid hard for RWF (aka making raid hard to counter weakauras that are made to counter hard fights that made easy by weakauras... yeah its a neverending circle)Comment by AdeeleiaI love how the question about mythic locks was a whole ton of garble that shortened down to a "go %^&* yourself." The issue is locks, and 20man min. Lower it to base 10-15 scalling up to 20. Would be become sooo much more approachable.

Also in regards to their hissyfits about add ons.. So many of these devs have said they created the fights with addons and weak auras in mind.. Maybe, hear me out here, don't do that? The fights were created before the wa and addons were created. Its not the Wa/add on's fault, it's the devs.Comment by KolplerFerriMDI has its own realm. TGP has its own realm. WHERE THE FK IS RWF'S OWN REALM?

Almost every problem in this game connected to difficulty is risen from fact they want to make the game for the 0.1% and lower the difficulty overtime. Thats it.

With RWF having its own realm Blizz could tune however they would want Mythic raid for the RWF (and not ending it under a disappointing 4-5 days instead of 1-2 weeks)
Items would be provided so no need useless HC farm week before they start doing Mythic bosses and this would stop burning out for players (I usually watch Liquid's players and let me tell you for the first 1-2 days they having fun, on the 4-5th day doing the 34636th HC farm for gear they look devastated and "why am I here") and finally civilians could engage the raid without waiting for nerfs/having 50 weakauras ready just because they tune raid hard for RWF (aka making raid hard to counter weakauras that are made to counter hard fights that made easy by weakauras... yeah its a neverending circle)Comment by GruselMythic Gallywix would have been fine for the average mythic CE guild if blizzard didnt decide to put out 20% buff, turbophase itemlevel buff and Boss Nerfs at the same time. Would have been about 150-200 Pulls which is reasonable for the last boss and that creates a feeling of elation when you do actually kill the boss.Comment by Wolfwood67Mark my words, Dimensius will be some sort of sky scrapper tall boss that we will be "climbing up" in phases. Similar to how several FFXIV raid bosses are.
They will be aiming to make it feel truly epic since this time it will be a cosmic level threat.Comment by Jinokuninb4 the expansion that takes us back to the roots and local stories because the stakes were world ending, much how BfA definitely was an expansion about faction war and Dragonflight was 2-years of filler episodes to bring us back to a clean slate.Comment by StripedYukoninb4 the expansion that takes us back to the roots and local stories because the stakes were world ending, much how BfA definitely was an expansion about faction war and Dragonflight was 2-years of filler episodes to bring us back to a clean slate.Comment by WilyerThe last encounter they said was eye-candy and incredible was Sylvanas so. Take that as you will.