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Comment by 175342

Oh yeah this one is going to get removed before live, I can see tears raining. Though I will admit this is godly overpowered for a Rogue. 1 min CD lol, man oh man let the QQ begin.

Comment by 152555

overpowered. rogues already have enough cooldowns to kill you while your down, and when you finally get up you can't do crap for another 10 seconds? Your sitting duck for another 10 seconds.. might as well be stunned.

Comment by 22744

At least it costs 25 energy, better then a few other rogue abilities. (exculde posions).

Comment by 137460

I could see other uses for this... the tooltip says "other equipment" right ;) ?

Comment by Rarehunter

I'd say this + Cheat Death and Sprint is an easy way out of hard situations. (Like if a warrior was about to Execute you, or a hunter was about to Kill Shot you.)

Comment by 94367

Imagine a combat rogue with Riposte and Dismantle against a warrior. I can hear the warrior right now saying; where the hell has my weapon gone? Oh that's right, i left it with my other pants :P

Comment by Returner99

This is most likely to give rogues a chance against Protection Paladins, whom used to smack rogues by popping a single Holy Shield in TBC.

Comment by Kassimer

I could be wrong, but I take the "other equipment" to mean bows, guns, knives, and wands; which would indeed make this a great skill to use to get away from a near-death experience.

Comment by 189351

I really hope this is altered or just removed because in its current form this will make rogue vs. hunter more of a joke than it already is. Also why do rogues need to have a counter to everything?

Comment by 191409

rogues have absolutely no defenses. theyre purely offensive. they wear leather and cant morph into prot wars like druids can. its all about how quickly they can kill, and with more hp and nastier spells/abilities they need more than just ambush crits.

besides, cheat death is sub. and as it is now, sub is only good with alot of crit in end-game content. hemo will be dead in wotlk, because theres hardly anything new in sub that supports it. shadow dance is obviously a way to do more burst dmg with ambush, unless blizz removes DRs from cheap shot.

Comment by 118765

Can't forget vanish.

Comment by camarouge

Technical question:

Will this effectively prevent the target from being able to parry during the disarmed duration?

More of a general question asking, "does disarm prevent parry?", but bear with me.

Comment by makron

Worth mentioning that disarming oponent will not prevent being disarmed, so that duels can end in situations where both rogues have their hands empty..

Comment by 181642

Ok heres my opinion on this (not that there isn't enough opinions already). At first glance this looks truly OP but after reading the comments and rereading the description there is only a couple major changes...

first change is that rogues can now disarm on demand: now rogue dont have to wait for a parry to disarm, this hits warriors and rogues but generally isnt too bad especially since warriors and (i think) rogues have talents to reduce disarm time.

second change casters can now be disarmed: not a huge change but it means they'll be loosing their stat sticks more often...

third change(and the biggest in my opinion, unfortunately im a hunter so I'm bias) hunters are disarmed of their melee and ranged weapon: this i consider huge mainly because we cant do anything besides lay a trap or deterrence (which is only half as effective) and try and wait it out

a fourth one(almost forgot to mention it) this hurts resto shammys and holy pallys too: basically rogues will have an on demand armor pen that stacks with armor reducing abilities, also (in the case of the shammy) they lose their weapon enchant, earthliving weapon.

Only time will tell how this pans out...

Edit: after looking at the comments again hunters aren't as bad off as i was thinking... we also get a disarm for 6 of the 10 seconds and disengage is being changed to cause us to jump out of melee range, which should balance it unless it requires a melee weapon *shrug*

Sorry for the wall of text.

Comment by 172239

This new baseline skill devastates the paladin in general, all three of his/her specs.

While rogues already have control over spell casting classes, this will be much an opener for controlling melee classes early in combat.

Comment by Ciel

This skill is just plain OP simply because it's the only disarm that not only removes the MH weapon but also the OH and the ranged weapon. If a rogue is disarmed by any other class they can still shiv their crippling on to prevent that class from escaping. Rogues are certainly not the class who needs a skill like this, in fact, this is a skill that should be used AGAINST rogues, not by rogues.

Comment by 205870

What most people fail to realize that is without all of a rogues cooldowns, they are nothing. If you are a warrior hitting a rogue that doesn't have evasion up, that rogue is going to get leveled pretty quickly. And in WotLK and warriors' 2 second overpower, even when we are evading we will get destroyed.

And what do you mean the only melee class that rogues don't walk over is a warrior? Yeah if we blow all of our cooldowns on a warrior, or any class for that fact, we can beat them. The truth is though, there aren't any real situations where blowing every cooldown is going to be a smart thing to do. If I blow two vanishes and evasion on killing a warrior, what do I do when my partner is dead and I have nothing left to use and I'm up against damn near any class. Without cooldowns, rogues are nothing. But, what other melee classes are there besides warriors? Enhance shamans- a *!@#in joke of a pvp spec really. Show me a high rated enhance shaman. Feral druid- i know its viable but its incredibly hard to pull off, they are very rare. Ret pally- another rare pvp spec but they are starting to come out in numbers. But it's still a class that can beat us without any cooldowns to blow.

As for the crippling poison, yeah it has the most movement reduction, but it isn't as effective because it can be dispelled. Hamstring can be spammed just as easily as crippling poison and even if it doesn't reduce as much speed as crippling, it cannot be dispelled. And there are no situations that you would escape from if you were hamstrung but you died because it was crippling poison. The increased speed reduction is nothing you can build a solid argument upon.

Rogues don't have a counter class? Damn near any healing specced toon will beat us. I can beat a druid only because I can chase him for an hour until he finally runs out of mana. Resto shamans will win damn near everytime because of their high armor, they can just spam earth shield and they will die slower than the rogue will being spammed by shocks and molten totem or which ever one it is that they use. Disc priests will win because they can just renew and PoM while they slowly wittle us down with shadow word pain. Fear and heal to full. Same thing applies with holy pallies. They don't do huge damage, but they can slowly work us down while healing themselves.

As for the people who claim that cooldowns like evasion and cloak of shadows give rogues any kind of immunity are just stupid. CloS is 5 seconds of spell invincibility, if you are dying withing 5 seconds, you are a scrub with terrible gear. Blizzard is trying to turn arena into an 'e-sport' meaning they don't want matches to last 30 seconds, they are wanting them to last a few minutes at least. Again, if you are dying within a minute, you are terribly geared. This doesn't apply to every class but for the most part its true. The game also isn't balanced around 1v1, and for the most part you will lose 1v1 against a rogue because we have so many cooldowns at our fingertips. But, put us in a 5v5 situation (which pvp is balanced around) and our two vanishes and evasions seem like hardly anything.

Go ahead and look my armory up, it's Xelus from Aerie Peak. I may not have the best ratings or gear but I know my &*!@.

Comment by supertao

What cant rogues do...besides heal and die?

Honestly tho, they are quite overpowered. They have a counter for every possible scenario I can think of vs me (a hunter).

They can snare/stun me a million different ways, avoid my snares (wing clip, traps), cath up to me in a few seconds if by some miracle I DO happen to snare them, avoid my flares, reduce my healing, immobilize me while killing my pet, and now disarm my bow. GG blizz >.<. This skill pretty much makes disengage useless, as ill have nothing to retaliate with once I use it.

IMO just make a new patch and give east rogue tree a tier 1 talent called

"Godmode": Changes nothing about you!

Comment by 193040

I do rather find it funny how people consider rogues 'OP' when they are probably the weakest class in the game overall, unless they are sub spec. Sub spec is the part of the rogue that is OP, not the other two trees. Assassination can crank out DPS but really has not tricks other wise. with a 5 min vanish CD, they won't stun locking anyone for very long and thus will find themselves getting the smack down from the other dps classes. Combat is the weakest (but oddly the most versitile) of the rogue classes. Its good for PvE and PvP because it can take a bit more of a beating because of Improved Evasion and generally higher dodge. Combat's Improved Sprint is also a good move when fighting mages and druids. Yeah, people point out maces and swords as OP but maces are getting a bit of a nerf by pulling their ability to stun. My major problem with maces and swords is that if they miss, you just lost a lot of damage, whereas if a dagger misses, its not that big of a deal, another one is coming shortly. Yet, it still get the crap kicked out if by Sub. Sub is just overpowered and blizzard is about to make matters worse with the changes 3.0.3 is bringing. Shadowstep is down right broken, allow rogues to gank people that are even mounted (i've seen it happen). Shadowdance will probably make matters worse with a class that can stun lock even easier now. My overall point is don't call 'rogues' overpowered when it's really just one spec of rogues. The rest are mediocre or fair at best. The other two specs just have too much working against them and sub has the biggest tool box to not only do damage, but to avoid it as well. I'm not particularly happy about this dismantle move. Being able to disarm was one of the few advantages combat had, and now its being pulled from them and handed in an over powered form to all the specs. Yes, I suppose being a combat rogue myself I should be happy about this, but I'm not gonna look forward to trying to fight sub rogues who can now stun the crap out of me, but can disarm me at whenever they like as well. Oh and rogues owning healers? What game are you playing? Kick's CD is usually too prohibiting to truly make it useful. I may kick a heal spell but another one will be coming up before I can kick again. I have 5 secs to kill this guy and most healers have ways of minimizing damage to the point where it is just simply not going to happen. Let me be clear, unless a rogue can fully stun lock their opponent, well, they pretty much well get stomped on, either by their target or someone else. So, no, rogues aren't OP (with the exception of sub rogues). They don't have range to play keep away, they can't heal in any capacity, their vanish capability only works if their target doesn't have some form of AoE. And yes, rogues do have an anti-class. Its called a hunter. Owning even a mediocre hunter takes alot of skill on the rogue's behalf. I'm done ranting, I really don't care if anyone agrees with me or not.

Comment by Maizou

Am I the only one slightly confused as to why this is a level 20 skill, but costs 8 gold to train? >_>

EDIT: Nvm, It's been fixed :D

Comment by 186030

Hmmm. So let me get this straight. Not only will I be raped with a stunlock I'll be disarmed soon after preventing me from using scatter shot.
Oh and if you're like 'trap,' cloak of shadows...
This move just sealed the deal on hunter rape. Way to balance it out blizz.

Comment by 222715

is this ability only available to the alliance?

Comment by 125097

wow all i c here is ppl QQ ing about how op rogues are and how this will make them more op. How could u possibly know this because as far as i know Wotlk hasnt come out yet so noone knows what classes will be more op. ur all judging this as if it has come out into tbc.

Comment by 132062

I had to deal with this first hand, did AB with three rogues chain-dismantle me while a holy priest just smite me to death. I was playing a warrior, removing melee weapon & shield left me totally defenseless for 30 seconds. Is this OP? Gods yes! Stuns from rogues I've gotten used to, but leaving me without offensive and defensive ability for 10 seconds is total crap.

Comment by Gunsdelight

This move is stupid over powered and needs to be nerfed.

Comment by 163970

I feel like this won't last long, it will surely be nerfed after warriors and shammies complain.

Anything good that rogues get never lasts long ;(

Comment by 223204

"OP" is one of the most thrown-around terms today. As soon as a decent skill appears, anyone who doesnt have a main of that class starts to cry. Since the patch all I've heard is "Omg *Insert Class-Specific Ability here* is OP Nerf!11oneone"

It can be fought against, like any other skill in WoW

Comment by Anarchy

This is useful against hunters, they can't wing clip you or even shoot you for that matter, I used it right before a BM hunter enraged, he just stood there with his pet attacking me, he couldn't do a thing.

Comment by 232226

Can I dodge, parry or block this ability?
Does disarm redution talents affects this ability?

Comment by 233718

So, do you lose the stats (enchants, etc) from the weapons when they are disarmed/removed?

Comment by 213431

Anyone know the id number for the debuff? Would like to add it to ClassTimer.

Comment by Tacos

Some rogue kept hitting me with this the other day in a BG. the debuff name should be called "WTF happened to my bow?"
trying to punch a rogue to death as a MM hunter= not fun.

Comment by 37315

it's really all about getting the first hit in isn't it? If the warrior gets to charge you first (lets say you are doing something at the time), then you start out the stunned person and then he rends you, making you unable to vanish (unless you're assassin with last talent) and if you dont bleed to death by then Overpower finishes you off good. <-- stop whining and just attack first!

ofcourse, if the rogue gets to jump you, its another story, which I guess most of the whining from warriors comes from.

But since most/all PvP rogues will be assassin now with that bleed removal talent, then I guess you're just screwed! Finally! Arms warriors were my big nightmare when PvPing with all their bleeds n stuff, eat %*+$ ! or learn to defend yourselves :P

but darn this costs alot to train for a lvl 20 ability :O

Comment by 116979

Dismantle should be buffed, it should also effect casters too.
Spraining their index fingers and thereby shutting down all spellschools for 10 seconds, am i right or am i right?

Comment by wye43

Starting with yesterday evening I noticed all my dismantles had 5 seconds timers in bgs instead of the usual 10. Is this a skill chance or suddenly everyone got smarter and took the disarm reducing talent/weapon chains?

Is it just me?

BTW, this skill is completely imbah. Its simply the best skill against any melee/hunter. Use it on a beast within activated hunter and /lol on him. I use this skill every single damn time its up.

Comment by 93626

If you feel that a rogue is in the arena: switch your MH into Adamantite Weapon Chain+ Brutal Gladiator's Salvation.

I think spending a lot of arena point for an identical weapon with different enchant is necessary for shaman/paladin.

Comment by 35800

Even if you don't like the phrasing and it is rather obvious, this is extremely powerful against hunters. I don't see the need to downrate that comment, but I guess this one will as well. Blizzard is aware of this being a problem and is looking into it (11.02).

Comment by 1771

Does not break incapcitation.

Comment by 156624

So a question on wep chains.

If your chain is reducing the duration of disarms, then does your weapon come back first, based on the amount of time it reduces the disarm, then the sheild/ranged weps later at the end of the dismantle duration? Or does the chain bring it all back at the same time?

Example: If my warrior(who is using a chain on my 1h'er hand atm) gets dismantled, is the weapon going to come back first and allow me to use 1h wepon based skills, but then have to wait till dismantle goes away to use my sheild/thrown based abilities, like sheild slam, or whats the deal here?

Comment by 173101

Meow!
:D
Btw, Rogues *!@# on everyone, not just warriors.
They are a ball to play though! ;-)

Comment by Aranian

Interestingly you can just Disarm the rogue right back. Then you can just stare him down for 10 seconds (assuming he doesn't vanish and goes looking for easier targets ^^)

Comment by Bliksem

A lot of complaining here from warriors who can no longer insta-gib rogues like in TBC.

I never wrote a single complaint post about locks chain fearing us in vanilla, nor about the state of warriors in TBC, nor resto druids in arena. I've learned to adapt my game accordingly.

Why not learn to adapt too rather than complaining and crying nerf nerf nerf? I've seen some very good counters posted here.

Comment by butcher098

this move is perfect if theres someone in PvP doing too much Melee DPS to you, i perfer using it before an Arms Warr has the chance to Bladestorm me, or if theres some Dagger Rogue that took away a decent chunk of my life my life with a series of Ambushes, and Blood Death Knights also seem to depend on their Melee Weapons, they do have spells to, but only 3 damaging ones that i know of, Icy Touch, Death Coil, and Death and Decay

Comment by 1771

By disarming someone, you don't really prevent him from the item's magical properties?

Comment by 304728

This skill renders hunters completely defenseless. without any weapons you cannot: Wing Clip, Scatter Shot, or Disengage. The only thing you can hope to do is lay a trap which is not sufficient given cloak of shadows and/or pvp trinket.

In addition with crippling poisons, sprint, etc. you cannot outrun a rogue your only chance is big red which again is not sufficient as it does not increase run speed and you cannot slow the rogue. Also with cheap shot and kidney shot you're a sitting duck.

If you can't kill a hunter with no escape abilities and only a pet as damage in 10 seconds not including cheap shot and kidney shot don't even reroll just quit. I've accepted that abilities that are overpowered in some cases are going to exist so I'm not complaining just stating the facts, though hunters have every right to complain imo.

Comment by 238837

this is all i have to say on the subject

Comment by Nuker

Please don't downrank this:

If a hunter has weapon chain on one of his melee weapons, will their ranged weapon return along with their melee weapons after 5 seconds or do they have to wait until the 10 seconds are over?

Comment by 286340

If you like qqing about rogues, how about you play one for a while?

Comment by 333821

You guys clearly have no idea whatsoever of what you're talking about.
Sure us rogues have cloak of shadows, evasion and PvP trinket (who does'nt?),
but after we used cloak of shadows and evasion, we are dead meat. Sure, we can vanish and run away, unless we have some bleed on us, I dont know about you, but my goal is'nt to attack someone and then run away.

This is a great addition to our lists of abilities, because without it, I dont see how we could survive against dual wielding 2hand warriors or 100k critting paladins.

Everything went better than I had expected. :)

Comment by ArashikageClan

Does not appear to work on mobs that use "Throw: <weapon>" abilities. The only mob I have tested it on was the Onslaught Gryphon Riders in Icecrown. I dismantled them (hitting it as I fell past them out of the sky for example) and they were still able to throw spears at me from the sky, out of my range.

Comment by 362799

this lasts way too long
a rogue that stunlocks and dismantles is untouchable

Comment by Exosion

I think i have discovered an exploit in this.. as a pvp arms warrior i haven't chose weapon mastery

now before u start grabing ur pitchforks and lighting up fire to burn me..
I just tell u that:
2 extra talents points and 28 hit rating-a must for pvp- IS MUCH BETTER than +110 atk power and -2% chance to be dodged -wich means less overpowers as well-
if u get my meaning (for the slow ones i mean chain)

i have the same enchant on my 1h axe as well ofc.. (wich helps as well when as a prot spec i might get disarmed in pve/pvp +extra hit)

ANYWAY what i have noticed is that if i get dismantled by a rogue.. if i swap to axe/shield.. im disarmed.. BUT I HAVE SHIELD!

i want comments and more ppl to test this.. im gonna try again with duels soon

Comment by lolisykes

Here's an interesting point: does the "Other Equipment" include items equipped in the ranged slot that aren't weapons such as sigils and librams? For example, if I had Sigil of the Unfaltering Knight equipped and got Dismantled, if I used Icy Touch, which doesn't require a melee weapon, would the effect not proc?

Comment by Faregas

does it remove benefits the weapon gives you? for example agility, AP or spd for casters?

Comment by 438643

I was wondering if dismantled can be parried or dodged if the person is gourged or sapped. When I try dismantling a rogue during who is not CCd they tend to dodge a lot but if I do it when they are sapped or gouged it seems to work everythime.

Comment by 200858

I never personally came across this situation yet, but it unnerves me nonetheless.

Can rogues 'chain dismantle' a player? as in, have 3 rogues conveniently time their dismantles to disarm you for a whole 30 seconds?

i thing disarms have DRs, but what about Dismantle? it's alot more unique.

Comment by 57826

nerf this ability.

Discuss.

Comment by Supahtoons

To clear up some confusion: Your dismantled target keeps any sort of stat that comes with his weapon, shield, ranged, etc. For example, if I dismantled someone that had +15 Stam on their shield, their health will not go down as a result.

Comment by 549559

Can this be used when Warrior uses https://www.wowhead.com/mop-classic/spell=2565#taught-by-npc?

Comment by 140351

No CD means warriors essentially cannot fight a rogue with a weapon anymore. Unless using fists.

Comment by Darthgorilus

i've always wondered, if u use dismantle on a, lets say, warrior, this warrior is using 2 2handers, u dismantle him, can that same warrior, before the dismantle debuff is over, equip a shield?

Comment by 381082

Since it's available at early level twenty you should be using this as often as you can while leveling (depends on playstyle ofc, stunlocking a mob has even better effect than dismantling him).

Most humanoid npc:s use a weapon of some sort to whack at you and if you dismantle them the dmg they do against you will drop significantly. Dismantling an enemy will also raise your dmg output since the enemy wont be able to parry your attacks without a weapon.

It is also a nice tool in dungeons to make the life of the tank and the healer a little easier by softening the blows on the tank (some warriors wont approve though since they are ragejunkies and want to be spanked by mobs constantly).

Edit: In the latest patch this ability got changed to be available first at lvl 38 instead of 20, still nice to use though =)

Comment by 699933

If only this removed the flag from enemy carriers' hands in WSG! (The description certainly makes it sound as though it should.)

Comment by Ronark

A great way to neutralize Ret Paladins, since most of their damage comes from Holy Power (which is only reliably gained from Crusader Strike, which requires a melee weapon).

Comment by Greshkharm

I searched the page and couldn't find the answer to this: Does this skill make bladestorm do no damage since there is no weapon?

Comment by 1012662

This ability disarms an enemy, weakening their auto melee attacks, and disabling abilities which requires a weapon or shield. In addition, dismantle has a chance to apply poison on main-hand weapon to the target.

Comment by Blakmane

Bye bye Dismantle, was fun while it lasted.

Links

Dismantle

Dismantle

25 Energy	Melee Range

Instant	1 min cooldown

Disarm the enemy, preventing the use of any weapons or shield for 8 sec.

Buff

Spell Details

Duration

8 seconds

School

Physical

Mechanic

Disarmed

Dispel type

n/a

GCD category

Normal

Cost

25 Energy

Range

5 yards (Combat)

Cast time

Instant

Cooldown

1 minute

GCD

1 second

Effect #1

Apply Aura: Disarm Ranged Weapon
PVP Multiplier: 1

Effect #2

Apply Aura: Remove Shield
PVP Multiplier: 1

Effect #3

Apply Aura: Disarm
PVP Multiplier: 1

Flags

Is Ability
Initiates Combat (Enabled Auto-Attack)
Discount Power On Miss
Taps immediately

Dismantle

Buff

Spell Details

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