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New tank trinkets suck!/?
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Post by
Colie
So am I the only one who sees things this way?
Scales of Life
---
Spidersilk Spindle
---
Stay of Execution
Scales - Stam is nothing compared to mastery for DKs. (Stam is static, so unless you lack some hp pool to survive certain dmg spikes you get a lot more benefit from mastery ---> every time you use DS) Sure it has a 1 min CD so u can chain it with VB which raises its healing value around 20-23k with glyphed/unglyphed
VB
. But
RT
+
LB
and self
DC
s +
Death Pact
+ every
DS
that lands, these all overperform this trinket's heal.
Vial of Stolen Memories
seems to be better because if you only dodge one boss swing during its buff is up, you have already spared more healer mana / did not die. Not to mention
Symbiotic Worm
. Even
Moonwell Phial
looks better if you can stay in the same spot for 20 sec.
Spindle - I guess this one is the best from FL trinkets, still not that amazing like and upgrade from
Essence of the Cyclone
to
Hungerer
for an agility class. The mastery is really nice, the
proc
however is still a lot weaker than
Symbiotic Worm's
.
Execution - Dodge... (now take the DR changes into account) Strongest
on use effect
imho, this at least can be a life saver. Reforge dodge and your more or less okay.
Also pls keep in mind that I compare them to 359 items. 372 stuff makes this question even funnier...
There are some fights where avoidance is more useful such as Chimaeron. But as a DK you'll probably be the soaker tank not MT. On Baleroc scales may have some viability. As it speeds up getting your HP back asap (off-tanking again). But other than these cases I find that HC stuff from the prev tier is the way to go. (And its the same with other tank items lacking mastery. You can find a more detailed conversation about that at EJ.)
So any thoughts? What will be your trinket choices?
Post by
724197
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Orranis
Mirror / Spindle. Why complain?
Post by
apocalypsa
Mirror / Spindle. Why complain?
This, rofl. Mirror is still awesome and spindle, while having a pretty meh proc, has the static mastery we want. It also drops from first boss, so even slackers like me will be able to get it.
Post by
Orranis
What's wrong with the Spindle proc? I don't think anyone expected it to be a Wrath-like Ardent Defender. It's just a trinket.
I haven't done any Fireland's raiding yet due to the fact that my raid group dissolved right after me getting off vacation, but from what I see that's easily 20% of a normal bosses hit. While the Worm's looks better on paper, you're not guaranteed a Death Strike between the proc and the next melee, while you are guaranteed a 17k shield. The heroic symbiotic worm gives you 6 Mastery, for an additional 37% of healing as a Blood Shield.
If you heal 29% of the damage taken, it would take 160,000 damage taken over the course of five seconds for that extra 37% to be equal to a 17k shield.
That proc is amazing, don't kid yourself.
Post by
apocalypsa
Naaaah not amazing. Its pretty good, but the mechanic of activates on low health just fits better with a dodge/parry proc, because those can actually save you, while 17k rarely will.
Post by
724197
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Orranis
Naaaah not amazing. Its pretty good, but the mechanic of activates on low health just fits better with a dodge/parry proc, because those can actually save you, while 17k rarely will.
Wait. You're saying you'd prefer an additional
chance
to avoid a subsequent attack that is sure to kill you is more valuable then the ability to mitigate it?
Obviously it's not going to save you alone, like I said, trinkets aren't meant to be equivalent to a talented class ability that was overpowered. But between Rune Tap (maybe with Vampiric Blood), Will of the Necropolis, maybe Death Strike, HoTs, possibly other heals, that 17k could very well be the difference between life and death.
Post by
DraconisAerius
I don't think I'm going to bother with Mr. Robot anymore. It doesn't rank Mirror in the top ten trinkets for DK tanks. In fact it says the best one is Porcelin Crab. Even if you set it to Tier 12 raid gear. Hell the stupid thing ranks a trinket with Agi on use in the top 10 even. No wonder there are people out there who are badly geared if websites that are offering advice are telling them the wrong thing.
Post by
DraconisAerius
Oh and btw, been bored here waiting for the RL to recruit people for about 10 mins and been testing this as much as I can, turns out Rune Tap doesn't proc Scales of Life. But Death Pact does proc it.
Post by
382074
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
DraconisAerius
If you note the tooltip for Scales, it only stores over healing. So it's not that great.
Post by
apocalypsa
Naaaah not amazing. Its pretty good, but the mechanic of activates on low health just fits better with a dodge/parry proc, because those can actually save you, while 17k rarely will.
Wait. You're saying you'd prefer an additional
chance
to avoid a subsequent attack that is sure to kill you is more valuable then the ability to mitigate it?
Obviously it's not going to save you alone, like I said, trinkets aren't meant to be equivalent to a talented class ability that was overpowered. But between Rune Tap (maybe with Vampiric Blood), Will of the Necropolis, maybe Death Strike, HoTs, possibly other heals, that 17k could very well be the difference between life and death.
But the same goes for avoiding that hit. And 17k could also very well be ALMOST enough, or maybe it doesnt do anything - the thing is, the dodge, whenever it happens, is always welcome.
Post by
724197
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
apocalypsa
If you note the tooltip for Scales, it only stores over healing. So it's not that great.
Not that great? It takes 17k of wasted heals and turns it into a useful heal to be used at your own discresion. That, is awesome. Not the best trinket ever, but useful nonetheless.
Stam as stat and a 17k heal... neither are particularly desireable. If one of them was mastery, or maybe even a dodge/parry that you dont have to stay in one place for, it wouldve been fine.... but now its probably worse than Apparatus. Wether it stores overhealing or normal barely matters, as it cd is long enough to be fully stored every time anyway.
Edit: how I look at spindle: Think of spellpen or hitcap vs strength in pvp. The strength is probably a bigger damage increase, but the damage increase will rarely, if ever, cost you a match. However, even if theres only 0.1% chance to miss or get a full resist, it WILL cost you a match one day. The same, but opposite, goes for the trinkets: a small absorb will probably never fully prevent a death, but a dodge bonus always will, at some point. if it was a normal proc, instead of a >35% one, non-rng wouldve been more desirable. But as the proc is designed to save your life, I'd prefer something that one day actually will.(although you will never know, as the dodge could also have happened without the trinket...)
Post by
DraconisAerius
If you note the tooltip for Scales, it only stores over healing. So it's not that great.
Not that great? It takes 17k of wasted heals and turns it into a useful heal to be used at your own discresion. That, is awesome. Not the best trinket ever, but useful nonetheless.
With the way healers work these days, you will very rarely be getting over healed if you are doing content that is appropriate to your gear level.
Also, if I'm reading the tooltip for Stay right, it causes you to take ~50k less damage, then causes you to take 40% of that ~50k over 10 seconds. So it basically causes you to not take ~30k damage. That is actually pretty decent.
Post by
724197
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Orranis
First of all, Stamina is no longer undesirable, especially for progression. It never really was. Even bosses as early as Shannox, a melee + arcing slash + 5-6 stack of Jagged Tear (it goes up to a hundred) can easily be 140k damage, not to mention with a 60% damage increase, it can easily lead to you being insta-gibbed. Effective health is back, $%^&*es. Especially considering how low our base mitigation is. I'm definitely going to stop with Elixir's and use a Stam flask, maybe even pick up some more Stamina from gemming.
But the same goes for avoiding that hit. And 17k could also very well be ALMOST enough, or maybe it doesnt do anything - the thing is, the dodge, whenever it happens, is always welcome.
Wait, 17k damage absorb isn't always welcome? I don't understand this line of thinking.
Edit: how I look at spindle: Think of spellpen or hitcap vs strength in pvp. The strength is probably a bigger damage increase, but the damage increase will rarely, if ever, cost you a match. However, even if theres only 0.1% chance to miss or get a full resist, it WILL cost you a match one day. The same, but opposite, goes for the trinkets: a small absorb will probably never fully prevent a death, but a dodge bonus always will, at some point. if it was a normal proc, instead of a >35% one, non-rng wouldve been more desirable. But as the proc is designed to save your life, I'd prefer something that one day actually will.(although you will never know, as the dodge could also have happened without the trinket...)
You're still
VASTLY
undervaluing the power of a 17k absorb. That's 25% of a 70k hit. 35% of 180,000 (example health) is 63,000. The next melee would kill you. With WotN, that's roughly 63,000 health. Not even including AoE or random other damage flying around, That 17k
will
save your life. It's more powerful then having a bone shield up for the hit until you start taking 85k hits. There is
zero guarantee
that you will avoid the next hit, until your avoidance is 100%. Sure, if you
do
manage to avoid it instead of mitigate it, it'll be less stressful for your healers, but that's like gemming Strength instead of spell-penetration before spell pen cap, as you said. For Death Knights, Avoidance is purely a stat for overall damage reduction. It should never be used as effective health.
Post by
apocalypsa
Meh, I dont agree, but seeing as my raiding experience is worse than most casual's I'll just believe what you say.
Post by
DraconisAerius
I find myself currently in possession of Scales of Life, Mirror of Broken Images and Symbiotic Worm. My guild is about to begin working on Firelands in the next week or so, I was wondering if there are different combinations of these three that would be better or worse for different bosses?
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