Clipping DoTs as affliction

Post by Samerius

Hello dear warlock friends.

I just have a quick question about clipping dots as affliction. I just talked to a spriest and he told me that I sucked at 'clipping dots', he ment that I sucked at clipping dots when my trinket pops and he also told me that it's the only way to beat destro locks.

Is this true? Will it increase my dps and dmg by alot or is it a bad idea to do so?
This spriest is very skilled and I trust him but I still want to confirm it.

Post by asakawa

never clip.

any gains you could ever make from trinket procs (there are few trinkets that would represent a gain anyway) are lost through a drop in efficiency and losing ticks.

the example is corruption ticks every 3 seconds.
clipping a DoT resets the time until the next tick.
if you recast a DoT 1 seconds after a tick has occurred then you're creating a 5 second gap during which no ticks occur.

when people say clipping DoTs is bad this is the main reason. the other is that you're losing out of DoT ticks that you've paid the mana for.

Post by ccbutch

There are some times when re-casting corruption is useful. If you have the NMIC and for whatever reason you corruption falls off in the middle of the fight and you end up casting an unbuffed corruption, then recast corruption when you proc NMIC again(however if your corruption is falling off you might have other problems anyway). I remember the iron tribunal fight in Ulduar there were times due to buffs you could get where it would benefit you to recast your dots, however I think the way dots worked then was also different.

The only fight in ICC that I can think of were you'd want to even consider recasting you dots would be when bitten in the blood queen fight, and even then it would only be corruption. If your real good at managing them it might be worth it to clip right before a transition, for example Sindagrosa's air phase or Putricides stuns. However for virtually all situations clipping dots is bad.

Post by asakawa

i wonder if the OP's friend wasn't talking about clipping but rolling corruption and the OP misunderstood.

if that is the case then you should read this passage from the FAQ:
Q: What stats refresh with Corruption and how do I use this mechanic well?
A: The deep Affliction PvE build uses the talent Everlasting Affliction to allow commonly used spells to refresh the currently ticking Corruption (the strongest DoT an Affliction Warlock possesses) on the target.
This "refresh", as opposed to the spell getting recast specifically by the player, is the source of an emergent gameplay mechanic which is not intuitive but is incredibly powerful when mastered.

The important thing to understand about the "rolling Corruption" is that certain stats continue when the spell is refreshed while others are reset to what you character has at the time of the refresh.

The stats that do roll are:

Critical strike chance
Percentage damage modifiers

The stats that do not roll are:

Spellpower
Haste

What this means is that if we can push our Crit chance and damage buffs as high as possible when we cast the initial Corruption on a boss fight, that high chance will continue for the full length of the fight or for as long as we can keep it refreshed.

To achieve this Affliction Warlocks will use a very specific opening spell order and then go to great lengths to make sure that initial Corruption never drops off.

The most notable buffs we should bear in mind are:

Percentage Damage:

This is a sizeable list of buffs and it is not easy to stack them all up for your first corruption (in the case of Death's Embrace it is impossible!).

The Nevermelting Ice Crystal is a relatively weak trinket compared to some of the trinkets gained in current-content raids but the nature of it's proc means that when you first activate it you have a +20% crit chance which only reduces when you crit with a direct-damage spell. If you cast corruption after activating the trinket but before gaining a crit your corruption will keep that 20% crit for it's duration. As such, NMIC is best-in-slot (or close to) for Affliction Warlocks who can use this mechanic well.

Focus Magic gives a 3% crit buff but you only need it in place when you cast your Corruption. the Mage is free to cast it on their normal target after the first 15 seconds of the fight if they wish.

You can "pre-pot" your Potion of Wild Magic. That means using the potion just before entering combat thereby negating the potion sickness that usually allows the use of only one potion per combat phase. this will allow you to use a Potion of Speed toward the end of the fight when you are using Drain Soul as your main nuke and the raid probably uses Heroism/Bloodlust.

Weapons, unlike other gear slots, can be swapped in combat. This allows you to use any high Crit weapon at the start of the fight then swap to your best weapon setup for the rest of the fight.

The percentage damage buffs are a little more difficult to manage. If your tanks don't need Tricks of the Trade from the Rogue then it is very strong when given to you but means you need to be aware of your threat since all the rogue's threat comes with that nice buff.

The 4pcT10 Proc is a random proc. You can cast Unstable Affliction and hope for a proc but that will likely require quite a wait and the chances are good that you would lose your potion buff and certainly the tricks buff. It's nice if you can get it but probably not something you should attempt to get every time.

Death's Embrace is a 12% damage buff that you get once your target reaches 35% health. If you can get the rogue to cast another tricks on you (difficult due to the short range on tricks) then it will likely be best to recast Corruption with both of these buffs and reactivate NMIC at that point too. If you can't reliably stack all these buffs then it is probably best to maintain the initial corruption.

So, what is the best cast order at the start of the fight?

Out of combat: Equip a Crit weapon
Get FM from a mage

Directly before combat:

Tricks from a Rogue
Life Tap(rank1)
Use potion of wild magic

Shadow Bolt
Haunt
Unstable Affliction
Nevermelting Ice Crystal
Corruption
Curse of Agony
Continue using normal spell priorities

The only other tip i would mention is that if your corruption looks like it might fall off before you get the chance to cast a refreshing spell on it you can use Drain Life to refresh it. It only requires you to stand still for one second to get the first tick of damage and achieve the refresh.

I hope this sheds some light on this difficult concept.

Post by 495966

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Post by asakawa

refreshing != clipping

clipping is specifically recasting the spell. refreshing is a result of the talent resetting the duration to max. the ticks are uninterrupted when you refresh.

Post by Whybag

when people say clipping DoTs is bad this is the main reason. the other is that you're losing out of DoT ticks that you've paid the mana for.

Also at play is GCD use, if you recast a dot 3 seconds before it ends, that cast could have been something, the GCD immediately after could have been something else, then you would get to where you would normally recast (not factoring haste.) If this happens multiple times it can add up.

Post by asakawa

GCD loss is just another way of describing inefficiency but you're not wrong.

clipping is bad
... until cataclysm!

Post by Naranya

Sorry for "hi-jacking" the thread :P

On the dot-clipping in Cataclysm thing... I was wondering about that.
Imagine this scenario:
Your corruption has 2 seconds left and makes it's final tick. If you clip it your next tick comes 3 seconds later. But if you don't clip it and refresh it just after it expires then what? Will the next tick come ~5 seconds after the last?
Cause that would make clipping a necessity, which seems.. Odd somehow :P

Post by asakawa

i think what you're suggesting is exactly what will happen!
really it's much more intuitive for new players to clip when we all talk about the importance of uptime. the obvious reaction is to make sure it never drops off.

on live that actually leads to less ticks but in cataclysm i think we'll all need to make the mental shift to uptime being the most important thing. never let your debuffs drop off the targets.

Post by Naranya

Hmm. I'll ask my mate to test it on the beta :>

Post by 539323

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Post by asakawa

If you clip it your next tick comes 3 seconds later. But if you don't clip it and refresh it just after it expires then what? Will the next tick come ~5 seconds after the last?
bolded the relevant parts.

the question isn't about clipping but about missing the clip and having to recast after the debuff drops.

with the full refresh mechanic in place clipping becomes good and missing the clip becomes bad.

edit: teehee! that was post 6,000 O.o

Post by 539323

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Post by Modibybob

Ok...I have a question about the refreshing of Corruption (I play destro).

Don't. Never use corruption as destro unless you need to move, and even then, you should consider life tapping, ~~if you have the glyph, if not, then that is the only time you should be using corruption.~~especially if you have the glyph.

Post by USMCDiablo

Even if you don't have the glyph, if you're going to run out of mana eventually you may as well life tap then instead of later when you could be standing still.

Post by asakawa

Ok...I have a question about the refreshing of Corruption (I play destro).

Don't.

i think the "(i play destro)" was more about apologising for asking a newbie question about affliction rather than actually asking a question in reference to their current spec. since they mention everlasting affliction.

Clipping DoTs as affliction

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