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Comment by Ixio

Ok if i'm reading this talent right, while the target is CC'ed it'll effect:

Deadly Throw.
Fan Of Knives.
All Hunter attacks
All melee attacks
All offensive spells. ( Bolts, lance, drain? )

What i'd like to know / Talent doesn't mention:

" effect for X seconds ".
Dispellable?
Resistable?
Debuff aura?

Sounds like Hunters are gona get the brunt of this talent. Imagine 5v5 with Hunter v Mage...

Edit: Brain Freeze + Arctic Winds hmmm ;)

Comment by 175408

I assume one reason why this talent will give you a instant fireball (and not a frostbolt although you're this deeply into the frost tree), is to prevent endless Ice Lance kiting with the occasional 12 second snare thrown in while on the run.

Other than that, imho it's kind of nonsensical why you get a free Fireball when you're obviously specced frost (otherwise you wouldn't have this talent).

Plus it's not like you don't have a 8 sec snare with a 1 sec cast time anyway.

Honestly though, this talent is good, both for PvE and PvP, but I really think it should be a Frostbolt instead of a Fireball. It makes it appear uhm... less gimped. :)

Comment by Gary13579

If you think this is going to be worthless just because it's not a Frost spell, you're very very wrong.

Rank 16 Fireball does 1132 maximum base damage (0 spell damage). Assuming it keeps its 100% spell damage coefficient, 1k spell damage (which should be quite easy to hit in PvP gear in WotLK) this spell would do 2,132 damage.

Now, let's figure out WHEN you'd cast it. Frostbolt/Ice Lance Shatter combo? I'm thinking more like Frostbolt/Fireball shatter combo. Max rank frostbolt should be doing roughly 2k damage, 4k damage with a crit + Ice Shards, and the Fireball is still going to be doing roughly 3k when it crits. That's a potential 7k burst damage, quite a bit better than Ice Lance.

It is quite situational though, as you won't be able to CC that target until the Fireball tick wears off (although you shouldn't be Polymorphing the target you just tried bursting). Now, if only this effected Frostfire Bolt...

Edit: fixed Fireball coefficient, 3 != 3.5 D:

Edit2: After thinking about it even more, this talent will still be amazing without a Shatter combo. A 2k instant cast with ZERO MANA COST is sexy anytime.

Comment by valiana

Imagine this talent in a raiding environment rather than pvp.

With 3/3 points you'll get a free Fireball (only costs a gcd) every 6-7 frostbolts.
Of course a frostbolt will arguably do more damage than a fireball if you're fully frost-specced, but the fireball will cost no mana and only require a 1.5s gcd rather then a 2.5s cast time.

Hence I can see this talent raising both mana-efficiency and damage output for raiding frost mages.

Comment by 35640

Blah. I just typed out a long response and my comp crashed >_<

Basically, in a raiding environment, if your Fireball average damage (DoT included) is 99% of your Frostbolt average damage, then this talent is a 1% increase in DPS per point not taking into consideration the diminishing returns on recasting while the DoT is up, or the possibly of using it with Fingers of Frost.

Overall, I say it's pretty lackluster and adds an element of complexity that isn't needed. Plus it lower mana efficiency.

I'm going with this spec: 21/0/50

Comment by 62635

I dont know what on earth he's talking about when he says it's lowering mana efficiency but this tallent is sexy no matter what you're doing.

This can proc off things like frost nova, not sure if it would have a chance to proc per target hit and it doesnt seem like that would be the case but none the less, rank 1 frost nova costs almost nothing ( somthing like 50 mana ) ( note: anything above rank 1 frost nova simply increases damage and mana cost, and to be frank the damage increase is so terible you're better off saveing the mana ( imo)) And i doubt this will encourage icelance kiteing because to be frank, it's a fairly lackluster tactic

A mage simply can not kite my arms warrior around with icelance, it doesn't happen. They're lucky to get me under 70% health so i'm fairly sure that we wont have icelance problems because of this tallent, and if you're already having troubles, this is yes maybe going to make it worse but you probably sucked anyway.

Personaly i agree this will replace icelance for shatter combo's whenever it's up, because Shatter (https://www.wowhead.com/wotlk/spell=12985) effects all spells Not just frost ones (Just incase you hadn't noticed >.<)
Nice thinkin gary

Comment by Benegesserit

Why fireball during a shatter combo? Instants are king in pvp and ice lance is only good when the target is frozen. Conclude a nova/frostbitten target combo with ice lance as usual. It can proc FoF for more mayhem, as well as the fact that you can simply wait till after the combo and drop instant fireball, fireblast, CoC. Never let Ice Lance's potential go to waste unless your target is just about to die (then use instant fireball during the combo).

Comment by 202692

the best pvp spec imo

Comment by caleb21

I agree with Bene, Use Icelance in your shatter combos and have an instant fireball afterwards. Its a bonus if you proc fingers or frost and your fireball crits. The only thing you should replace a lance with on shatter combos should be deepfreeze.

I would say the reason its a fireball and not frostbolt is to promote some different specs. To be any good in BC you had to be 17/0/44. Frostfire bolt, Brain freeze, impact procing on all spells, and burning determination are making me think about a 0/19/52 build. Downside is your bread and butter spell is a 3sec cast time. Although your FF bolts will crit for like 4k and then burn for almost 2k more. Burning soul and flame throwing should effect FF bolt making it even more desirable.

Its hard to say, both fire and arcane have really good talents in the first 4 tiers.

Maybe i'll go pompyro and arcane barrage kite a slowed target!

Comment by Nagol

I think this talent was implemented to add a little flavor to the current frost mage dps rotation. And also to encourage elementalist (frost/fire) builds.

Comment by 212288

Will there/ is there a notification via combat text, or a mod that lets you know when it has proc'ed and is ready?

Comment by 231753

This is being changed in build 9138 to only proc from chill effects, meaning ice lance spam will no longer give you instant free fireballs.

Comment by 69284

It can proc multiple times in a row. I cast frostbolt, I see <Fireball!> while I am casting another frostbolt. Because the fireball is instant-cast, I cast it as soon as the GCD is up on that 2nd frostbolt. The fireball hits the target at the same time the frostbolt does, which procs another brain freeze and another insta-cast fireball. It's my favorite talent!

Comment by 240052

You could use it as part of a frost based frostfire bolt spamming with fireball on proc type build such as this...

https://www.wowhead.com/wotlk/talent=of0bZfV00MZhIzIkfu0fzxfsx

As long as you have ignite your chance of having a good hit, especially if you time your fireballs to go off on frozen targets would be pretty solid option, especially for one that causes no mana and comes every 6-7th bolt.

Comment by 135318

Does this works with Pyroblast? :)

Comment by 251244

Might currently be a bug with this Talent : Wowhead forum topic where it does not work with Improved Blizzard. If anyone can confirm this it would be greatly appreciated.

Also with this talent, it seems to be VERY important to use CoC in your spell rotation in PVE dungeons, as the CoC have a chance on each target it affects to proc a free fireball. Thats a potential 50% chance to get a fireball if 3 or 4 targets are hit... does mean that deep frost mages need to be up close now though.

Oh and to anyone saying its wrong to get fireballs, play a little with the Frostfirebolt and Ignite in the calculater and you will see how this talent can boost your DPS tremendously, its a blessing that its fire and not cold :)

Comment by 33985

The Fireball! buff from this talent lasts 15 seconds only.

Comment by 239511

i was trying to calculate if i rather use on a frozen or FoF target "ice lance(shatter) then instant fire ball (no shatter)" for a sum of 3 seconds (GCD) or a "instant fire ball(shatter) +frostbolt (no shatter)" for a sum of 4 sec (GCD+cast time)
usually by the time FoF procs u alrady casting frostbolt and half way throw...so it lives u with 1 cast affected by FoF. (i have noticed u can cast frostbolt then instant and both will get the bonus from FoF because the FoF will not go away till u hit the target.which is after the instant launches but thats for a different thread)

***Im talking avg damage
***assuming 3/3 ice shards
***with shatter i presume crit (very likely)
***w\o shatter i presume no crit (much less likely)
***1K spell power which is 1K for FireB 857 for frostB and 428 for ice lance
***assuming pricing ice, +6% to frost damage
***assuming 5/5 chilled to the bone,+5% to ice lance and frostbolt
***assuming empowered frostbolt which is 100 damage increase and 4% crit

"ice lance(shatter) then instant fire ball (no shatter)"
ice lance(shatter)= (238+428)*3*2=3992 to this we add 11%=4431
fire ball=1010+1000=2010
sum 6441 in 3 sec
"instant fire ball(shatter) +frostbolt (no shatter)"
fire ball=(1010+1000)*2=4020
frostbolt=(830+100+857)=1787 to this we add 11%=1983 and 4% more from crit chance giving us 71 damage=
sum 6074 and 15% freez and 15% FoF and 15% another instant fire ball (wich i wont calculate for dmg given coz this post will be too long)

plz correct me if im wrong.

soice lance"combo" gives u 1 more second 370 more damage and the abilty to keep moving (all instate)
while the other "combo"gives u 15% freez and 15% FoF and 15% another instant fire ball.
notice, the freez and FoF have a 2.25% chance to overlap

ill go with instant fire ball then frostbolt. what do u think?

***edited for typos

Comment by 128231

For those curious, Frostfire Bolt does proc Brain Freeze.

Comment by lmh86

Undocumented Class Changes
As of Patch 3.1.0 - PTR Build 9704:

Mage T8 4P Bonus -- You have a chance for the effect of your Missile Barrage, Hot Streak, or Brain Freeze talent not to be consumed when you cast the spells which benefit.

Comment by voz808

Does this mean with Glyph of Frostbolt , because their is no slowing effect that this talent wont proc anymore for Frostbolts?

And if it doesn't, any one know which would be better for pve? a constant +5% dammage, or a burst fireball?

Comment by Cheader

Noticed this change last night while toolin around on some target dummies. ANY frost spell can/will trigger this effect. I thought it was a glitch when I was trying to see the DPS of Blizzard (the spell, not the company) and it not only kept procing but because Blizzard hits each target each second there's a 15% chance per target per hit that it'll proc so it kept refressing on it too. Think about this for AoE grinding...
The only way I can think of improving this would be to have it work like the DK Sudden Doom where it casts it on the targetted mob on it's own...might make it a little OP but it would be SO damn sweet because as is I either have to interupt my Blizzard or wait till the spells done channeling before it can be cast which means against multiple mobbings it's a waisted proc.

Comment by 159214

I noticed bug.. If you gain this proc while you are casting fireball, it will be consumed when you finish the casting, without giving you instant fireball.

Comment by twistdshade

Any way to integrate this into a frostbolt macro?

/cast Fireball
/stopcasting
/cast Frostbolt
doesen't work

with trinkets etc, would be nice.

Comment by Rankkor

this talent is dangerous :P just look what it did to poor turk

Comment by 340239

Changed in 3.3.3.

Brain Freeze: This talent now allows your next Fireball or Frostfire Bolt to be instant and cost no mana. There is a small internal cooldown to keep the Frostfire Bolt from immediately triggering Brain Freeze again.

Comment by 318094

In theory you are absolutely correct, Katalo. If you know with certainty that FFB will not crit, then Fireball is the better choice. In practice, there's some astonishingly different things about it.

Brain Freeze and Fingers of Frost procs will keep you on your feet. Sometimes they proc so frequently that it becomes hard to keep up with your current circumstances (ie. whether Brain Freeze is up at the same time as FoF or not). It is much easier to take advantage of the proc as soon as it appears if you're not constantly trying to pay attention to what else is up at the same time. Also keep in mind that a target not being frozen does not immediately mean you have a 0% crit chance. Frostbolt can crit back-to-back-to-back-to-back-to-back-to-back-to-back without ever having benefitted from FoF or the target being frozen. It is also of great importance to note that until you are crit soft-capped (ie. your crit chance + shatter + WC + whatever talents/buffs you have or debuffs the target has), FoF is not a guaranteed crit either. There have been times where nothing of mine critted during FoF/DF/FN/Frostbite periods as well. Those are few and far between, but the point still stands.

Currently, my Fireball does about 200 more damage than my Frostfire Bolt on hit. I imagine the gap will increase more substantially as my spellpower increases. However--and this is a big however--Frostfire Bolt critting deals far more damage than Fireball. The difference between them on hit and on crit can justify just sticking with FFB. Sometimes it's the case that Brain Freeze procs right after your Frostbolt consumes your last FoF proc and then you would find yourself reaching for Fireball only for FoF to reproc from the last Frostbolt you cast. It gets quite hectic and messy at times, and the sure bet of Frostfire Bolt takes away some of that intensity. It is also of great import to consider that unlike Fireball, Frostfire Bolt can reproc FoF, only for your first Frostbolt to reproc Brain Freeze in time to get off an instant-FFB right after your second Frostbolt for the second FoF charge (assuming, of course, that Deep Freeze is not up during an FoF proc).

I tend to get wordy (sorry about that), but in short, using FFB even if it's on hit during Brain Freeze can be made up for due to its ability to proc FoF, its simplicity for making things easier on your reflexes, and the fact that as you have also stated, FFB by far is superior to Fireball on crit. However, if you have the reflexes of a god and can keep up with all the procs going off on your screen at the same time, and the foresight to know with 100% certainty when a Brain Freeze proc will allow you to hit or crit, then using Fireball would be quite useful. I have the reflexes of a competent mortal and I'm not psychic, though. :(

Comment by 340239

I'm a fail PvE mage so I tend to stick to my expertise. For PvE mages absolutely always always always FFB. And try to stick up for those PvE frost mages out there, there really needs to be more of them.

Comment by 258282

they shouldve called this talent 'Icy Hot'.

It wouldve made alot more sense.

Comment by 96334

I would recommend using FFB, since it can proc both FoF and Brain Freeze again.

Links

Brain Freeze

Brain Freeze

Talent

Your Frost damage spells with chilling effects have a 15% chance to cause your next Fireball or Frostfire Bolt spell to be instant cast and cost no mana.

(Proc chance: 15%)

Spell Details

Duration

n/a

School

Physical

Mechanic

n/a

Dispel type

n/a

GCD category

n/a

Cost

None

Range

0 yards (Self)

Cast time

Instant

Cooldown

n/a

GCD

0 seconds

Aura proc chance

15%

Effect

Apply Aura: Proc Trigger Spell (23)
PVP Multiplier: 1

	Fireball!

Affected Spells:

Frost Nova	Frost Nova	Frost Nova
Frost Nova	Frost Nova	Frost Nova
Frostbite	Frostbite	Frostbite

Flags

Is Ability
Passive spell
Aura is hidden
Do Not Sheath
Instant Target Procs
Can Proc From Procs

Brain Freeze

Buff

Spell Details

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