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Серии

1.	Переживания на грани Своевременное спасение
2.	Побег из тюрьмы
3.	Похищение
4.	Борейские дознаватели
5.	Искусство убеждения
6.	Передача сведений
7.	Наперегонки со временем
8.	Воссоздание ключа

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Pathetic fool! A servant of malygos would sooner die than aid an emeny...
Aargh! Do your worst, <class>! I'll tell you NOTHING!
Aahhhh! Release me! I am of no use to you. I swear it!
Stop! I beg you, pleae stop. Please....
(Quest Completion) -- Alright! I am beaten. Your previous archmage is held in a prison, elevated and sealed. Even if you manage to reach her, Salrand herself holds the key. Your mission is folly!
I've given you the information, <Race>! You're wasting your time....
Noooo! This tortue is inhumane! You have what you want... why don't you just kill me?

Комментарий от 231672

Using a device that "Inflicts pain... but does no permanent damage" bothers you people, but it doesn't bother you to kill HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of people/animals/demons/whatever to get to this point in the game. It's a game, get over it or go play some mindless first person shooter with no story if you want your violence to be an end, not a means.

Комментарий от 231672

I also can't help but laugh at the hypocrisy of WoW players when it comes to treatment of prisoners. Everyone complains about this quest but I haven't heard a peep about this one which is the one I believe you were referring to when you said

Even a gnome in Wintergarde Keep has you murder a Vykul prisoner of war in his own jail cell while a dozen soldiers are entertained by his slow grisly demise.

I think you'll like my response to that quest :P

Комментарий от 274261

The quest is offensive because it implies that torture is effective.

Violence in wow can generally be placed under two categories that of:

Gratuitous violence: senseless, cathartic violence with no inherent gain such as killing critters, random beasts and random acts of violence. The game or quest does not imply there is any inherent reason for doing this you just want to do it.

Violence for strategic advantage: your side has told you to bomb, attack, murder the other side because you are at war with them and they have something you want or are going to do something to you or the people you care about. You are at war with them and if you don’t attack them, destroy their ships, wagons, supply chains it will be used on you or your lot.

Gratuitous violence in wow I do not find objectionable as there does not appear to be a subtext implying that such acts in the real world are ok.

However it is important to point out most violence in wow in particularly narrative/quest/story driven violence tends to be justified in some sort of ethical framework implying that if you do not go kill the infestation of boar/undead/demons/ect like the nice man with the question mark above his head is telling you to do people you care about will suffer.

The real world implications of content like this being in games is that without some sort of moral counter point such as the information being incorrect or the wizard asking you to do it being evil in some way it is implying that torture is ok.

I would not mind if the Scarlet Crusade asked my character to do such an act as the game has already established that this group is morally questionable and would serve as an appropriate counter point.

This is the first time I have felt strongly enough to post anything anywhere about wow on the net. I assume the post will be met with taunts such as ‘don’t like it dont play’, trolling, vitriol or worse still just get voted out of existence.

However I enjoy the cathartic nature of wow. I like this website and appreciate the people who take the time to post and add to it to make my gaming experience more enjoyable.

Apologize for how long this post is however this is something that I and my friends who play wow have been uncomfortable with since encountering wotlk and am glad this is being discussed on a community forum.

Thanks guys.

Комментарий от Gwiez

I find three parts or this quest disturbing, none of them are the violence. 1) torture is the only way to find Lady Evanor, when I just passed her prison out in the field. 2) the wizard pays someone else to torture his prisoner so he can pretend he didn't do it, 3) when torture isn't working, you torture more and it works, which is kind of not accurate.

And I'm not looking for World of Cuddlecraft. Stealing wolvar babies has got to be the most satisfyingly evil quest, but I don't think there's an underlying message that stealing babies is ok.

I mean seriously, out of all the prison boxes, there's one that isn't empty. I wonder who's in it. Instead of opening it, let's torture some random person you found nearby and see if they know where the prisoner is.

Комментарий от childofnewlight

Wow...I never thought a discussion like THIS would arise. I mean, I'm usually one of the more sensitive of players. I flinched as I did some of the DK starting quests and what not and have skipped some of the Apothecary quests back in Hillsbrad because I wasn't too fond of poisoning people...but in all honesty I found this quest FUN. Call me twisted, but the second time I did this quest I let my younger brother sit there and click the poker.

I mean seriously. Its not even graphic. The guy sits in a chair and spews off a few cheesy lines. And now you think this is a protest or support of torture? Its a game folks. I usually don't say that because I know in times past its #$%^ed me off...but really ITS A GAME.

Heck, I went up stairs and acquired a second poster from the vendor up there and poked him a few more times just for kicks.

I dare say, there aren't going to be many, if any kids walking away from this chaining their pet gerbils to chairs and stabbing them with curling irons until they speak. and I doubt many people are going to call their representatives up and say "Hey. The Kirin'Tor used torture. We should too!"

I mean really. Do you realize how many hundreds of thousands of people and animals you've killed to get to this point? How many of them ran in fear and yet you still chased them down and killed them? How many level 6 defias have you used to level up your new weapons? How many times have you ran through Wailing Caverns letting off wave after wave of AoE to clear cut mobs for a guildie?

Were you tortured via a magical poker as a child? :(

Honestly its fun. Why? Because its unrealistic. Just like Elmer Fudd getting the living daylights beaten out of him repeatedly by Bugs Bunny is amusing. Its not real. Its a release. Its amusing in an animated sense. Most people can separate the difference between pixels and real living beings.

Seriously, if you're complaining about this look at your skillbar. Think about how painful it'd be to have someone use rend on you, or set you on fire with immolate, or chuck massive bolts of frost at you, or kidney shot you, or maul your face off in bear form, or...you get the point.

Now imagine the hundreds of thousands of humanoids you've killed in various fashions for the last 70+ levels...

Maybe this isn't the game for you?

Комментарий от Novawolf

Rofl, these comments are ridiculous.

To 'garrote' someone means to drag a sharp or barbed wire across someone's throat and incur heavy bleeding or death.
To 'gouge' someone's eyes means to stick your thumbs (or any other foreign object) into someone's eye sockets to subdue them.
A 'sap' is a club-like item you use to beat someone over the head to knock them unconscious.
To 'eviscerate' means to disembowel.
Not to mention all the diseases to spread, kidneys to punch, dirt to throw around, information and precious items to steal, wars to start and end, fires to be set and enemies frozen and shattered...

And yet, you all complain about this simple little quest. /boggle

I think this quest was neat; it's something Blizz hasn't done before in letting the player actually get some much needed information.

I mean, it's not like Malygos is planning to kill all mortal magic users, right? Or torturing his own prisoners in the confines of The Nexus. This is all just senseless torture at no gain.

Oh wait.

/point
/laugh

Downrank if it makes you happy :p I did this out of spite and for fun, going around picking out all the 'graphic' things you do in this game. Enjoy.

Комментарий от Jonti

For anyone who doesn't want to do this for what ever reason, in total you'll give up around 85,000 xp, 20 Gold and 895 Kirin Tor rep. Plus the green level rewards from this quest: Rescuing Evanor
Sweltering Belt
Charred Treads
Glimmering Ringmail Gloves
Seething Waistguard

So no major plot lines, hubs or other character gimping will result from avoiding the torturing if you don't want to do it. And I think you can still complete the area quest achievements skipping these too.

Комментарий от 127706

I particularly found amusing the fact that the Neural Needler has "Made in Dalaran" written on it.

The Kirin Tor are supposedly "bound to a code of conduct" that frowns upon torture but you as an "outsider" are not bound to such restrictions and can thus do the dirty work for him - yet the instrument of torture was made in their very own city.

/facepalm

Комментарий от deathmac

I'm pretty sure there is mention of a Neural Needler in the Novel - Beyond the Dark Portal. Been a while since I read the book but I rememebered the part instantly when i did this quest. Something about Khadgar trying to ask a felorc for information but the fel orc just sat there grinning taunting him to torture , so Khadgar reluctantly resorted to the needler which, in the end worked.

Someone correct me if i got any of this wrong >.> if i remember i will pull the book out and put it word for word.

Комментарий от mayoff

You can finish Nothing Boring About Borean (Alliance) without doing this quest or the rest of the chain.

Комментарий от Jerodast

Is this quest and the followups necessary to get the Tundra achievement? As a sporadic RPer it would be somewhat amusing to refuse to do this quest on ethical grounds :)

Комментарий от karti

the ethic implications of this quest were what made me hesitate - i did complete it, but was wondering about:
A - what was blizz thinking when doing the quest?
trying to take away some of the horror we have when thinking about torture?
making us hesitate and think about our opinion to torture?
just doing a new kind of quest without thinking about ethics whatsoever?
B - what are other players thinking about the quest?

at least for B im pleased to see people dont just mindlessly do what they are told to in this game.
maybe they wont in real-life neither :)

Комментарий от 475607

Look, do you want the experience or not?

Комментарий от WitherVoice

This is one of two quests in the game that have given me pause. The other one is... hmm... Seeping Corruption.

Now, when working with the Forsaken this stuff seems to be par for the course... and all in all I'm OK with it. And the morality of the act of completing this quest in and of itself is also no concern of mine. However, it still makes me uncomfortable that it presents torture as useful for non-propaganda purposes. Torture is worthless for producing actionable intelligence; it is useful for producing lies. Making someone lie is extremely useful, so torture is not worthless, but this right here is akin to taking a perfectly useful saw and using it to hammer in nails with. Wrong tool for the job.

Комментарий от Allakhazam

This quest bugged me . If you follow the text it reminds of a crap episode of "24".

And the fact that you had to do it like 5 times and he gets progressively worse is creepy.

And what exactly do they do to him after you tortured him ? feeed him to dragon

Комментарий от Allakhazam

Fx the Kirin Tor. Bunch of bastards! I'm not an RPer but even I was uncomfortable torturing someone for Ameri- I mean the Kirin Tor just because it makes them feel better if they haven't done it themselves.

Комментарий от Allakhazam

I'm an alliance paladin and I approve of this quest. In fact, I enjoyed it.

Комментарий от Allakhazam

You kill THOUSANDS of beasts, elementals, undead, etc... for quests and you complain about a single torture quest? Anyone that has any sense knows torture is not a reliable means to extract information.
---------------------------
I believe torture has proven effective. It sometimes reveals misleading 'facts' but it has been shown the CIA has achieved positive results from negative means

Ссылки

Искусство убеждения

Используйте генератор боли против закованного бериллового колдуна, пока тот не выдаст местонахождение леди Эванор, по просьбе библиотекаря Нормантиса с Янтарной гряды.

	Пленный допрошен (1)

Прилагается предмет:

	Генератор боли (1)

Описание

Как удачно, что ты здесь, |3-6(<раса>)!

Видишь ли, кодекс чести Кирин-Тора не одобряет крайних мер, даже в таких отчаянных ситуациях, как теперь.

Но ты – <чужестранец/чужестранка>, тебя эти ограничения не касаются, так что тебе ничто не мешает предпринять действия, необходимые для получения информации.

Делай все, что понадобится. Нам нужно немедленно узнать, где держат леди Эванор!

А я пока приберусь на полочках... Да, и прихвати эту старую штуковину, она тебе может пригодиться!

Прогресс

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Награды

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	Генератор боли

Дополнительные награды

После выполнения этого задания вы получите:

150 ед. репутации с Кирин-Тор

Введите эту строку в чат, чтобы узнать ваш прогресс:

/run print(C_QuestLog.IsQuestFlaggedCompleted(11648))

Руководства

Kirin Tor Reputation Guide for Wrath of the Lich King Classic

Искусство убеждения

Описание

Прогресс

Завершено

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