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I agree with "noob-wonderings." I mean shadowcraft set is nice and all, but like what's it take to get it, FOREVER! If you have a very nice guild and does like instance everyday, i mean you would be able to get it in no time, but look the bosses not only drops shadowcrafts only it also drops other item. IMO, this set is a way to go.

Комментарий от Thottbot

Imo stamina is very important in PvP. If you want to do high-end PvE, you might want to stick with the more PvE friendly sets (that increase loads of crit, dodge, agi, str etc), but for me, a PvP player, this is the way to go.

Комментарий от Thottbot

would you choose the champion shoulders over wyrmtongue shoulders?

Комментарий от Thottbot

After the 1.8 patch..rogues nerf? I dont know but it seems like i'm beginning to kill these warriors like nothing. I mean both are correct, it depends on how well you play your character. But also stamina is the most important role in pvp. The more stam, the more you stay alive. That means you're capable of gaining up to 5 combos and then finishing them off quickly. Or unlikely, you would have a better chance when a rogues stuns u at first and would bring you down quarter health as in cs, ss, ss, ks, ss, gouge, coldblood, eviscreate. You would have a better chance to survive that. Or as in when u fight a druid in bear form which it would regenerate itself all the time. If this set really sucks for pvp, then why did blizzard make this set a pvp gear then? Think about it.

Комментарий от Thottbot

Now hold on just a dang minute here.

You, sir, as a warrior, are a rock. Mages are the paper. I, as a rogue, am scissors. Analogies!

Anyway: this set is designed for PvP; If you're looking to do PvE, get yourself some Shadowcraft (I'm assuming that if you have the time to take to get Nightslayer or Bloodfang you can also take the time to get the Warlord's Vestments).

Just to confirm logically what everyone has said: the point of the PvP set is to keep you alive against other players. My rogue has around 3500 hp in his PvE set (6/8 SC and some other crap), but over 4100 in the Champion's Vestments. One day, I hope to wear the Warlord's vestments, which by my math would give me over 4600 hp, but that remains to be seen.

Now, my Agility is, of course, as you can imagine, a ton higher in PvE and PvP; this is not necessarily bad. Dodges can get you killed by warriors. Almost every class has some special ability activated by being the victim of a crit (pally's redoubt comes to mind). But I digress.

This set is useful for it's purpose but it is not universal. That's the problem you get when explaining things to lowbies (even the 48 rogue from earlier): Even from 59 to 60 it's a whole different game. PvP/PvE gear, the complete upheaval of the known class balance ("The rogue is no longer the most powerful?" was a sad day for me), and there aren't really 'iffy' fights any more; if you can't own it, it owns you.

This is enough. /out

Комментарий от Thottbot

Being a rogue that PVPs all the time, this set has been a blessing for me. Before with shadowcraft and agility gear, I did slightly more damage and died in 3 swings. With this, I can stick around waaaaay longer to kill someone and make an escape. It makes doing AV not a suicide run everytime you pop up. $%^& shadowcraft, with it's bull@#$% drop rates and the fact you have to out-roll about 5 rogues and all the new feral druids in your group everytime it drops. Plus, this looks way more badass.

Комментарий от Thottbot

In pvp stamina is greater than all

The longer you live the better, doesnt matter if you can crit the guy. Stamina ftw.

60 ud rogue 5k hp unbuffed

Комментарий от Thottbot

well, is this set only for horde? because hall of legends does not exist anywhere in alliance territory.

Комментарий от Thottbot

There are 2 things that influence PvP far more then sets.....the players ability and the delay each 1 has on the conection to the server. Unfortunately my conection aint that good, so somteimes my 6 secs stuns just pass by in a lag spike, and were of no use at all.
For the set that started all this argument, one thing i can say...the set bonus aint as good as it should be :-P

Комментарий от Thottbot

How often do a rogue miss against a warrior? i say about 25-30% or mayb even more. Hence stun lock against a warrior is bs, their defence is just too high!

Комментарий от Thottbot

Using a rogue item stat analyzer I created, I have come up with these conclusions:

Although this set lacks agility for rogues, it is not meant for the PVE aspect of the game, and in PVP, survivability > damage.

Now, this set has 6 pieces and gives:

836 Armour
7 Strength
47 Agility
120 Stamina
3% crit
1% dodge
1% hit

This outputs

1200 health
4.413793% crit
3.827586% dodge
104 Attack Power (Irrelevant as AP is only to decide base DPS)
918 Armour (excluding base level armour)

This increases your Melee DPS by 7.428571.

Definatley not the best PVE set.
Compared to the Devilsaur Set:

Devilsaur set (2 Pieces)

2 crit
2 dodge
5.142857 DPS
230 Health

This set is only 2 pieces and you're only losing 2.3 DPS, and it's easy to get.

Verdict: The Champion's Vestment is lame for damage in PVE, but pretty good for survivability in PVP.

Комментарий от Thottbot

I was reading some of the comments here and agi is a rogues best friend...more crit/more AP/more dodge/more armor. the stam on this set is nice...but if you crit more and throw in a good stunlock, you dont need a mass amount of health. also, with say a squishy(mage, preist, warlock) i have found that comming up behind them and ambush backstab and walking away is better then ambush (small chance to crit) and backstab then the preist can fear you, the mage can ice nova blink or poly you and the warlock can fear you...i preffer the 2 shot and walk away. with warriors you can stun lock them and do mass DPS before they get out of it so yeah...i like AGI over some health. just my oppinion

Комментарий от Thottbot

Do you think this set would be good enough to use in MC? Or would shadowcraft be better?

Комментарий от Thottbot

I thought this set might be good because of all the extra hit points. Ive done MC lots before as a hunter and noticed that rogues die alot.... especially if they pull aggro of the main tanks. My guild is not anywhere near ready to do mc yet so i have plenty of time to get better gear, I just thought this set would do it

Комментарий от Thottbot

Warriors don't completely own rogues:
(This is all from Ming) Aside from lucky misses and dodge/parrys, I'll beat a warrior almost all the time.

-Learn to rupture kite -> vanish
-only attack warrior when he is stunned and back off to let his rage drain
-if he has high rage and is in zerker stance, use evasion to force him to switch to battle stance, then you can either stunlock or outlast him.
-a rogue who doesn't use evasion in a fight with a warrior doesn't really know what he's talking about
(would you rather eat Mortal Strike + 2 regular attacks or one crit overpower in 6 secs?)

often times I can beat a same level/equip warrior with just:

CS->SS->SS->Rupture->vanish (let his rage subside)
CS->SS->SS->evis->evasion and spam SS.

The trick is to attack when he is stunned or when you pop evasion.

Remember:
-he can't overpower you or intercept you in zerker stance, which means if you stay away or pop evasion he has to give up tons of rage.
-if you force him into battle stance, then you can gouge him all you want.
-we are designed to fight cloth in BG's just avoid warriors unless you have to fight them.
-read ming's dueling guide

Комментарий от Thottbot

The only thing I would say is that for someone not in a big raiding guild I think this is pretty nice armor. I know there is better, but for those of us who can't drop everything to raid this will do just fine IMHO.

Комментарий от Thottbot

This set is made for PvP, not Raiding/PvE.
In raids, you do not get hit much because of the Warrior that tanks for you.
In PvP, you will get hit a lot, and very hard. This is where the massive +stamina comes to help you.

About this set:
+Survivability
-Damage

Pretty simple OK?

Use Devilsaur/Shadowcraft if you are going for PvE gear.

Thanks.
Lvl 55 Legionnaire Rogue

Комментарий от Thottbot

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/pvp/images/armorsets/horde-rogue.jpg

Horde PvP blue set. (Helm not shown) <-- for those of u to nub to even notice =D.

Sincerely,
Roguetwo - 60 Rogue Akama

Комментарий от Thottbot

It is very, very easy for a smart rogue to really nullify a lot of what a warrior can do through a smart stunlock/crippling poison kite.

Warriors are naturally good, through skills and equipment sets, at breaking rogues. Plate mitigates damage, and a bit two handed Mortal Strike, or an Overpower, will hurt the rogue significantly.

But that doesn't mean at level 60, rogues always lose to warriors. A warrior can be kited so simply, it's flat hilarious. Providing they aren't an Orc of course, because that 25% stun resist is just a pain in the ass.

I've got a level 60 rogue, with nothing special in the way of gear, IE tier zero equivalents, and I can go into most any fight with warriors, regardless of their gear, and expect to win. Not saying it always happens, but more often than not, I can expect to win or either damage them severely.

Pretty simple really, here's just a quick step by step rundown of the cookie cutter formula I use for fighting warriors.

Pre-duel:

Crippling Poison on both weapons. While the added DPS of Instant is nice, controlling the warrior is paramount. Don't even touch deadly unless you want to try some crazy DoT run, which is fun for damage, but entirely blows gouge, which is one of a rogues best moves against a warrior, and blind, one of the rogues best defensive maneuvers.

Start of Duel:

-Stealth and get some distance away, wait for them to use Bloodrage, then blow a shout. Both Demo and Piercing Howl I believe will pull you out of stealth. If you see the warrior has Rage, toss a Distract at him to act as a fake out. If he bites on it and immediatly shouts, he's down on Rage and can now be approached easily, without much threat of being destealthed.

-Open with cheap shot. During the four second stun, open up with a pair of Sinister Strikes. Between the auto attacking and SS's, Crippling Poison more than likely should have applied. If it doesn't which is rare, you're going to start off at a disadvantage. After you get a crippling poison proc, and you're roughly three out of four seconds through the stun, back up.

-Get to a safe distance. Safe distance is not thirty yards. Warriors have Intercept, and any warrior that knows anything about his class will pop over to Berserker and tag you with it. THIS IS KEY! Stay outside melee range (5 yards) and inside Intercept range (8 yards). You should be moving 100% speed, they should be at 30% speed. Not too hard to maintain that distance. Let them burn time walking towards you for a couple seconds, during which you are getting energy back. Once you've reached 100 energy again, or close, run straight at the warrior and throw out a Gouge.

Gouge is one of the best moves a rogue has against a warrior, providing you haven't put any DoT's on them. As long as you have Imp Gouge (I could never make a rogue build that doesn't include it, I am dependant on it like nothing else), you can use Gouge as one of your best offensive and defensive moves.

~For one, it gives you a combo point. We all love combo points.
~Secondly, it throws them off.
~Third, it is a great way to avoid an overpower. If you are fighting and you see that you've dodge, toss out a Gouge. Overpower only stays lit for three or so seconds, which means that by the time they are out of the gouge, it's not up for them anymore.
~Fourth, it burns time off your own cooldowns as well. Without Imp Kidney Shot, you can only stun a target six out of every twenty seconds. If you include a gouge into this, it is now roughly eleven and a half out of every twenty seconds that they are incapacitated. The other nine seconds should be times that you are hanging outside their melee range and inside their intercept range, providing they have Crippling Poison II applied.

**Recapping**

(2CP)Cheap Shot
(3CP)SS
(4CP)SS
Back off, regen energy.
(5CP)Gouge

Now you wait here for energy to hit 100, then you open up with a Kidney Shot, then two more SS's, possibly three depending on how your energy ticks line up. Back up off them once the KS timer is almost down, and do the same kiting with Crippling Poison. Get energy back, then run back in for another Gouge. Once energy is back at 100, I personally like to throw an immediate SS, then follow it with a KS. Due to diminishing returns, you aren't going to get the full stun duration, but you can still get off a number of hits in.

By now, even with good gear on their part, they should be hurting pretty badly. I mean even with my rogue's crap gear, any warrior at this point will be feeling the significant beating I've put on them.

Just continue to pop between Gouging, Crippling Poison II Kiting and throwing in the stun every now and then. When they get low, just blow an Evis on them and hopefully, if you've done it right, they die.

**Things that can go wrong**

1. Orcs. Orcs bone this strategy pretty badly through their stun resist. It is still doable, just way more difficult.

2. PvP Trinket. The warrior PvP trinket is something that can bone you too. "Use: Dispels all Immobilizing, Slowing and Stun effects.". If they use it for the initial CS, then you can just back up and gouge them, hopefully you don't get tagged. If they do break the stun, you can counter through Vanishing and immediately re-cheap shotting them. The stun doesn't last as long, but it's two more combo points.

3. Berserker Rage- "The warrior enters a berserker rage, becoming immune to Fear and Incapacitate effects and generating extra rage when taking damage. Lasts 10 sec." Warriors that fight in Berserker Stance can do this to help kick themselves out of what you are attempting to do to kite them. If this is the case, you can either run away, which doesn't work very well, or you can have fun with some cooldowns and Blind them.

4. Hamstring- Hopefully you don't get Hamstrung, but if you do, you may either blow Blind, or just gouge them and get some distance. Crippling Poison II is a 70% movement reduction, Hamstring Rank 3 slows the target to 50%. That 20% is pretty easy to take advantage of, you just need to get some initial room.

**Things to watch for!**

1. Whirlwind- A warrior with a high crit% that fights in Berserker stance and has a decent weapon can still slap you with a pretty heavy hit with Whirlwind, and it doesn't matter where you are.

2. Getting contained as opposed to containing them. If they get a hamstring on you, and you have no crippling on them, for the love of God, Blind.

Anyways, this is longer than I'd intended, hope that somebody gets some use out of it, it's just what I normally use in the situations, and may not be universally useable.

Комментарий от Thottbot

Well,i've spent some minutes with my Calculator and i'm going to present you the difference between the pvp-set and the same pieces of Shadowcraft in Numbers:

Attack Power:
PvP:104
Shadowcraft:202(including set-bonus)

Shadowcraft has 98 Attack Power more than PvP

Stamina:
PvP:135(including set-bonus)
Shadowcraft:76

PvP has 59 Stamina(590 hp)more than Shadowcraft

%crit:
PvP:4,41%
Shadowcraft:4,41%

The Chance to Crit is the same on both sets

%hit:
PvP:1%
Shadowcraft:0%

PvP has 1% more chance to hit than Shadowcraft

%Dodge:
PvP:3,82%
Shadowcraft:8,82%

Shadowcraft has 5% more Chance to Dodge than PvP

%parry:
PvP:1%(including set-bonus)
Shadowcraft:0%

PvP has 1% more Chance to parry than Shadowcraft

Armor:
PvP:836
Shadowcraft:814

PvP has 22 more Armor than Shadowcraft

So...
it's mainly ca.100 Attack Power vs. ca. 60 Stamina,and secondary 5%dodge vs. 1%hit.

My Opinion:As a dagger-rogue i would prefer Shadowcraft,because those 100 Atk boost you damage considerably and Daggers are usually build for short fights,so damage is more important than life here.
As a sword-combat rogue i would prefer PvP,because Sword-rogues usually need longer to kill an opponent and you do not notice the missing 100 atk as bad as you would as a dagger-guy.Besides,the 1%parry is also nice for Riposte.

I hope i could help you with this.

So long,

Rhllor

Комментарий от Thottbot

Armor-1258
sta-140
attack power-214
crit-60 (according to new stat layout post 2.0)not 60%
hit-40

The attack power on this set is insane not to mention the +crit and +hit(hit will help lvling from 60-70 ) and the sta from the set is very nice! Great pvp set good pve set kkthx

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