39856의 댓글

It's a +31.20 swing speed increase to a level 13, this may prove to be a deadly twink item for the 10-19 BG - Only reason nobody knows about it yet is the fact nobody makes them.

On a side note, this is a very cheap and fun way to speed up low-level leveling, especially when combined with Seal of the Crusader!

Nifty01의 댓글

The counterweight is great for low levels because the % increase scales with levels. It is very effective in low levels while diminishing in higher levels. Twinks or just low levels using 2hers in general, I would suggest getting one of these attached if you find a nice blue. This will make a noticeable difference in speed for grinding.

apparentbliss의 댓글

This item affects druid feral form attack speed, making it an attractive option for leveling feral druids.

Fatality의 댓글

Can this be applied with an enchant already on the weapon, or will it replace the enchant?

xgevangelist의 댓글

Quote Joyd "Cat druids already have an attack speed of 1.0, which is the lower bound on player attack speed. It works great in bear form, however."

your a moron.

a 10% increase in attack speed to a 1 speed attack will reduce your attack speed to 0.909. Which increases your dps by 10% there is no "bottom" on attack speed for non-hunters.

Vifor의 댓글

This 'enchant' does NOT affect feral attack speed or ranged attack speed. I'v tested on my alts (lvl 29 hunter and 43 druid).

53267의 댓글

I have done some math and I found that the DPS increase on a weapon provided by the Counterweight is equal to
(original weapon DPS)/(1/(1-haste)-1)-(original weapon DPS).
Where haste is the decimal version, so 0.1418 instead of 14.18%.

But I was thinking, if it is true that the haste effect only increases the speed of the weapon, thus being calculated before base AP is counted in, the effect of an Iron Counterweight could be HUGE:

Imagine a 20 dps, 2.5 speed weapon in the hands of a Warrior with 70 strength at level 19. The total dps is now 20+(140/14)=30, and the weapon will deal 75 damage each hit on average. If the Counterweight theory is correct, the new speed will be (2.5-2.5*0.1418)= 2.145. If the base AP of 140 is now calculated from the damage per hit, which was: 25 more, then the dps increase from the base AP being calculated with the new speed is 75/2.145-20=14.97 dps, an incredible amount.

Can anyone confirm whether the AP calculation really benefits from the new weapon speed? Or does it still only add flat dps?

EDIT: I found the article on WoWwiki a few days later, which stated http://www.wowwiki.com/Attack_power :
"Bonuses from attack power are added to a character's DPS before attack speed bonuses come into effect. So, a character with a weapon with 10 base DPS, 2.0 attack speed, and 140 AP will have a total of 20 DPS (10 base + 140/14 from AP). If a 10% increase to attack speed is gained, DPS will increase to 22 (10% of 20 is 2) as opposed to only getting one from the base DPS, at 11, and then adding 10 from the attack power to 21."

This means that the example of the 20 dps, 2.5 speed weapon in the hands of a Warrior with 70 strength at level 19 works out like this: 20 weapon dps+(140/14)= 30 dps. If the AP calculation from WoWwiki is correct, the attack speed bonus of 14.18% will only now be calculated in: 30*1.1418=34.25 dps. A 4.25 dps increase- not as extreme as I had thought it would be (my previous calculation was a bit messed up), but still, for a Warrior 4.25 dps equals 30 STR- that's as much as TWO +15 STR enchants! For the price of an Iron Counterweight! Yes people, this thing has huge potential...

crowface28의 댓글

This is hilarious... I saw it in the AH and asked around for a bit before applying it to my Birchwood Maul. Dropped my weapon speed from 3.3 to 2.17, and with Rockbiter on my DPS is 27.8...Pretty sick for a level 10 shaman! I strongly recommend getting this cheap boost for the lame 10-19 levels. Extremely helpful, and easily obtainable to boot!

69115의 댓글

It's a shame there are only Iron counterweights... if blacksmiths could make some high level ones that requried Primal Nethers to craft then they could have something actually worth selling...

57691의 댓글

52% Speed at Level 1

113855의 댓글

It requires 165 in Blacksmithing, meaning you need to have it manually attached to a weapon.. you can't send it to a low level alt to make the grind easier.

theslish의 댓글

I just managed to get two (which wound up costing me more than it should because I sent all the mats for it to my friend before I realized I could have used them for these) and I was hoping to put it on the one weapon I have equipped and the one I am going to use once I hit 32. Then I read this and realized that I need to get one of my blacksmith friends to equip it for me on my 32 sword and I can not use it on my pally staff because it is already bound. Auction House, here I come. Also, I could have just gone to my BS friend to get him to make it for me but i thought "why trouble him later when I could just ask this person to do it... Yeah, I founda two handed sword that is a 0% drop rate in either RFK or RFD. That was not happening. The point of the story kiddies is that if your guild has an expert blacksmither, ask them to make you stuff instead of worrying about when you can get it.

41511의 댓글

You no longer need to be a Blacksmith to attach this to a weapon.

Earo의 댓글

Currently, on a level 1 orc warrior, I have this on the two handed axe they start with (its faster than the vendor one), +1- haste on gloves, +haste on legs, and I'm waiting for the monocle to arrive from fishing or the AH to attatch my other +10 haste, im over 100% allready, somehow, but its only halfed my wep speed, which is now 1.30 or so, anyone know any other item enchants or buffs I can get for haste, apart from the drums ofc.

166878의 댓글

With the typical green you are only gonna have a few levels, its probably not worth the cost if you aren't a smith,

With a blue you are likely to use twice as many levels as typical green, well worth it.

In addition to any extra dps it deals, extra weapon speed screws with caster's channeling.

Rather nice if you are a class that can carry 2h but can't duel wield.

Swordy의 댓글

This only affects melee haste, sadly.

193366의 댓글

I have posted a review of this item on my Warcraft blog: http://blorgcraft.frankish.net/. I've been buying all my blacksmithing mats with the money I make from selling these.

And I have all the leftovers mats necessary to put one on every of my other characters' upgrades as I level them!

A great item lower level blacksmiths.

makron의 댓글

1.27% at 70. If you can craft it, it is probably worth it, well at least better than plain weapon.

202467의 댓글

will it not alter the effect of mongoose if this upgrade will be put on effect on one 2-h?

54864의 댓글

In 3.0 melee and caster haste ratings were merged, therefore this enchant affects casting speed.
Sadly, it cannot be attached to a staff, but a druid can use a 2h mace. With 52% haste 0,987 sec cast wraths are amazing :)

120824의 댓글

can i put this on a weapon that already has a fiery enchant on it?

ArrogantParagon의 댓글

With 3.0, with the homogenization of haste, it now affects casting speed, and so it becomes a deadly thing to have when first starting your caster characters.

60888의 댓글

Someone will probably downrate this for being silly but I just saw a hunter looking for one of these in trade chat and it got me thinking... does the haste get applied to you and all your equipped weapons or just to the weapon this is attached to?

In other words, will it make my gun shoot faster if I attach it to my sword?

Ledaren의 댓글

With the merge of spell and melee haste in 3.0.2 this now affects casting!
Works very good for Shamans, Druids and Paladins. :)

178417의 댓글

Has anyone tested whether this effects GCD or not?

48509의 댓글

Great for Casters with a 'meh' weapon while waiting for something that lasts long enough to throw a spellpower chant on.

My level 8 was machine gunning wraths with this , lol

Eminence의 댓글

i've just hit level 10 on my warrior
i had the heirloom arcanite reaper from level 1, to 10 (and counting) with iron counterweight on. +20 haste.

it has given me 52% speed increase each level so far.

i thought it scaled down...

Sneetch의 댓글

Will enchants remove this?

edit: indeed they do...

twistdshade의 댓글

Can't be used by Warlocks, Rogues, Priests or Mages.

20 haste rating = 52% haste at level 1-10
2.6% Haste per rating

<11 - 52%
11 - 34.67 %
15 - 14.86%
17 - 11.56%
33 - 4.16
80 - 0.61%

20 Haste rating = 0.61% Haste at level 80
0.0305% per rating

Methusela의 댓글

For a leveling druid would it be better to take 25agi or this on weapon with 2 HoJs and the glove enchant putting him at around 17% haste

Thottbot의 댓글

Hmm, it seems you guys have forgotten one thing....

for enchantments, extra damage per second would be:
enchantment / attack speed. Nice and simple. and WEAK!

weak i say? yes, weak. Here is the info to back it up.

You seem to believe that for iron counterweight the math for extra damage would be:

weapon dps x 1.03

this is wrong. Try this instead:

extra damage:
(weapon dps x 1.03) + (attack power dps add x 1.03)

Translated: you don't get a bonus to your weapon, you get a bonus to overall damage you can do, including stats, buffs, strength pots, scrolls, and so on and so forth.

Conclusion: as a lev40 paladin, using imp might and a slow 2h weapon, with 5 pts in 2h weapon spec talent, i managed to boost my total DPS by 7.2 points. if you have a weapon that swings slower than once every second, you'd be hard pressed to beat that with an enchantment.

Thottbot의 댓글

FACT: counterweight does not change the damage done by the weapon, even though it increases weapon speed. The attack power damage modification formula uses the BASE weapon speed.

FACT: Even a 2h paladin at level 60 does more than 100DPS, whereas a +9 enchant on a slow weapon adds 2-3DPS

Iron counterweight increases the number of swings per minute by 3%, and as far as I have acertained all formulas that use weapon speed use the BASE weapon speed, so it increases basic melee DPS by 3%.

This worked out to an extra 3-4DPS for a 2h paladin at level 60, making it better than a +9 enchant on any slow weapon, for super cheap, but not anywhere near as good as crusader.

Thottbot의 댓글

at level 60, +9 adds at most 3-4DPS and that's if you're spamming mortal strike or using seal of command.

Fact: There is no damage per hit reduction whatsoever from installing the counterweight, because all formulas that use weapon speed, like attack power and seal of command proc rate, use the base weapon speed.

So you get 3% more hits and 3% more seal of command procs for the usual amount of damage, resulting in 3% increase in overall DPS for a retrib pally, which is around 4 dps, making it equivalent to the 2h +9 but a hell of a lot cheaper.

Thottbot의 댓글

A lot of people seem to fail to realize that most damage done by warriors is coming from their instant attacks (MS is the biggest example) and by using a counterweight their effective damage they produce with each MS/instant attack is not increased. By using a +9 damage instead, each time they use one of these instant attacks +9 damage is also added to the equation and most likely outdamaging the counterweight as a result. However, counterweights are far cheaper and are the better option for people that need their money for other things as the damage enchants add is pretty minimal and only used in an optimised gear.

Thottbot의 댓글

When this is applied to a melee weapon, it affects a druid's feral form attack speeds. Currently in cat form I attack at .97 speed. Nothing huge, but a curiousity.

Thottbot의 댓글

I'm gonna wack one on my Earthshaker as a Shaman.

Why you ask?

1) It's practically free, my alt had the mats my friend has the plans.
2) Procs are everything to a shaman. I want to proc windfury as much as possible, I want to proc the stun effect.

"But Talsigore, procs work on PPM!"
And PPM is determined by base weapon speed. So using that logic, I can proc 3% more per minute than I can without it! The increased speed also gets me faster swings, which convert to more windfuries.

Yes crusader is better but the price difference is much larger than the effect difference. I'll save crusader for when I get a different weapon.

Thottbot의 댓글

Base weapon speed is surely the speed before any spells or effects - therefor including the counterweight.
Judgements such as light and wisdom on the other I do not beleive are calculated this way since the effect is on an enemy, not yourself (and certainly it seems this way in my experience) so for a holy palla this is an advantage (all be it small).

Thottbot의 댓글

Four little things that haven't been pointed out yet:

It actually lets you do 3.1% (300/97%, to be precise) more attacks, not 3% more attacks. Not a big difference, but when trying to optimize your character the extra accuracy (accuracy to a couple more decimal places, not weapon accuracy, lol) might help you decide.

Many people do not factor buffs in correctly - I'm fairly sure some buffs/debuffs are calculated before taking the counterweight in consideration while others are calculated after calculating the 3% speed bonus. And even if I'm mistaken here, just like Kindgott said, you have to factor in stat modifiers that you normally have on such as MoTW.

Arms warriors are most dependant on in order to do damage, while Fury warriors tend to be more dependant on overall damage and other stats, for instance, some fury warriors pump their crit chance so that their Flurry is almost constantly activated - Flurry increases their attack speed by a huge 30% for the next three strikes. This means they get their three strikes off in the timespan of two strikes (well, 2.1 strikes to be exact). Basically, some warriors would find a +damage or a +str or even a +agi most desirable for their build.

For hunters or other classes who can use 2h-ers but rarely use them, it might be a much better idea to get a +stat enchant, as you can definitely find a +stat that affects your main style of combat as well. Like with hunters, you can get +agi or +str to further boost the +17.5 dps from Thorium Shells. And speaking of Thorium Shells... who cares about Iron Counterweights when you can get cheap Thorium Shells (and Delicate Arcanite Converters) from Cannibalism on Uldum ;)

Thottbot의 댓글

This actually works in bear/cat form too.

Thottbot의 댓글

My lvl 42 warrior wields a whirlwind axe for 82.3 dps, including 130 AP from Battle Shout and +6 damage from a sharpening stone.

A counterweight increases his dps by 82.3 x .03 = 2.469

Meanwhile a +7 enchant should increase my dps by +7 / 3.3 = 2.12. I divided 7 by 3.3 because 3.3 is the "normalized" weapon speed for a 2 hander (patch 1.8). A Whirlwind Axe's speed is actually 3.6 so the real bonus may be even lower.

In my situation, a counterweight is at least 16% better than a FAR more expensive enchantment.

Note that a counterweight also allows warrior rage to build faster but contributes nothing to abilities like Overpower, Retaliation, and Mortal Strike.

Because a counterweight effectively scales base damage, it's just as effective for high level players as for lowbies. By contrast, enchantments give a flat bonus, and more expensive enchants must be employed to provide proportional benefit at higher levels.

Thottbot의 댓글

Now it only provides a haste rating increase (2% at level 60, perhaps even less at higher levels).

I hope Blizzard comes out with a better counterweight.

Thottbot의 댓글

I for one intend to go with the enchant.

Just going off the math. yea the counterweight is better. but that only really applies if you just standing there wailing on some boss with loads of hp.

in your avrage battle 3% is not going to be enough to get you an extra hit. i use whirlwind axe and i only get off about 4 to 5 normal hits off in fighting the avrage mob... you can get a better bonus than 3% with one carfully placed slam attack. and if you are spamming slam. then that 3% is doing nothing for you. add to that for a warrior that the enchant will give bonus damage to MS and overpower and slam. and if you are arms spec overpower will crit lots and your crits will be better.

i can see how 3% might be better for a proc based class. but even then i would rather increase the damage i am doing in every battle than reduce the speed it takes me to do the damage i already do.

Thottbot의 댓글

This thing is obviously not balanced for lower levels.

My 10 level warrior has this in his mace (just testing) and it brings his 3.3 attack speed down to 1.85!

crazy

Thottbot의 댓글

Yes it does work in cat and bearform but on 2 handed maces only (druid 2 handers), I wish this worked on staves as there are far more ferral staves.

Thottbot의 댓글

lvl 1 twinks need this XD.

at lvl 1 the amount of haste needed to increase speed is tiny so this would make attacks super fast lol.

Thottbot의 댓글

ok nobody knows how haste actaully works at lvl 60 or 70 20haste=NOTHING AT ALL but lets say a 19twink 20 haste is a lot

Thottbot의 댓글

Guess what. Can't have this And and enchant on the same weapon.

Thottbot의 댓글

I know it would not make sense, but would the 20 haste rating affect ranged weapon attack speed?

Rating is on the character, not the weapon.

Thanks

Ok found answer above: NO it doesn't.
Ranged speed is only affected by one quiver and abilities - quoting person quoting GM.

Thottbot의 댓글

"Apply Aura: Increases Rating (Melee Haste, but not Ranged Haste)
Value: 20
Rating: Melee Haste" l2read

Thottbot의 댓글

the increase on weapon speed depends on your lvl at lvl 70 its a very sucky enchant but at lvl 5 20+ hast from counter and 10+ from enchant for gloves will take a weapon thats normal speed 3.30 to about 1.60 lol ftw 28.7 dps on a lvl 6

Thottbot의 댓글

So... besides all the interesting calculations on DPS and the rest....

Where do I get this recepie?

Allakhazam의 댓글

Anyone know how 20 haste rating affects a level 19 or 29?

Allakhazam의 댓글

Added 5.2% at level 38 on a 3.2 speed 2H mace.

Allakhazam의 댓글

You can only attach one

Allakhazam의 댓글

When it refers to "a two-handed sword, mace, axe or polearm..." does the two-handed refer to swords, maces and axes; or just swords? (meaning that you could attach this to any mace or axe)

Allakhazam의 댓글

For 2H Weapons less than lvl 60 Epics (blues like Arcanite Reaper), Crusader, Lifesteal, Fiery are much better.

For lvl 60 epic 2Hers, the Counterweight is slightly worse than Crusader, Lifesteal, Fiery for DPS.

For Rank 14 2H Weapons, the counterweight is about even for DPS.

The reason is, the lesser weapons proc the enchants the same amount no matter the quality. It's basically like adding a certain amount of DPS.

The counterweight increases by a percent. The result is bigger, with bigger numbers. Say, Crusader and Lifesteal account for 6 DPS. This Counterweight only affects auto-attack, but if you do 300 average DPS, 180 being auto attack. 3% increase on 180 DPS is 5.4 DPS. It would take a HWL weapon to do this DPS... an Arcanite Reaper would get about 225 average DPS with 135 DPS from auto attack. 3% increase would give it a 4 DPS increase. Not nearly as good, but great for it's cost.

Allakhazam의 댓글

Mainly on Thottbot. What i got out of it, is that this counterweight is overall better than typical enchants.

Allakhazam의 댓글

Do u need to be a blacksmith to fit it on, or do u also to a blacksmith to use the weapon when fited?

Allakhazam의 댓글

does hit go to onehands and I heard blacksmith enchants stack with other enchants is that true?

Allakhazam의 댓글

Okay I'm a 61 ret pally with Howling warsong axe and It didn't decrease much of my dps only 1.74% I think what causes it to decrease?

Allakhazam의 댓글

I have it on my lvl 8 warriors green mace, Spiked Mace of Stamina. It has 3.10 Speed without it, but when attached I got amazed: the speed is 1.74!

Allakhazam의 댓글

First, dps isn't measured in %s.
Second, it doesn't decrease your dps, it increases it because of making your attack speed faster.
And, you can have this + a sharpening stone/weight stone on a weapon at the same time.

Allakhazam의 댓글

A guy on our server has one of these on his Ashkandi. Just about everyone on the server thinks he is taking the piss, but he really beleves its the best enchant.

3.5 weapon speed will give you 0.105 speed increase. I think thats safe to say, its pretty damn rubbish, compaired to +9 damage, +15 strength or crusader.

If you add it to a crappy weapon like a shadowstrike, your looking at around 0.093% speed increase.

Allakhazam의 댓글

good for under 55 druids IMO though, yes it does work in feral forms :D

carwik149의 댓글

Does not affect attack speed of druid while shapeshifted.

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