Comments

Comment by 51953

Regardless of current naming and model issues in this early stage of PTR, this is looking to be the new dagger to get for rogues.

Edit: Name and model are now updated, so far still the only dagger of interest in Uldaur at this point, looking like Blizzard is going to make itemization the pathway to help rogue issues.

Comment by 309718

You're actually wrong, at least when it comes to MH-weapons.
For Combat it's obvious that Slow/Fast will be better due to Combat Potency proccs, but for Mutilate you'll either use Slow/Slow or Slow/Fast, depending on how strong the daggers you'll get will be.

A slow MH has a higher "procchance" for instantpoison/woundpoison, but as you'll use Deadly Poison on the Offhand a faster weapon is a little better for the OH. (Though one could discuss that for a Mut-Rogue a slow Offhand would be better, in the end they'll probably end up about equal so you'd do best if you take this dagger in the OH and let's say SR or Perilous Bite in the MH, at least if there's not gonna be a 232 speed 1.8 dagger.)

The speed difference between 1.8 compared to 1.5 is quite a bit. Factor in a high crit chance (which if geared you should have at least > 40% full raid buff'd) and you are missing out on a lot of focused attacks proc'n.... I would have to side with asix on this one. Might be wrong though.

Comment by Notepad

Drops from XT-002 Deconstructor in the 25-man version of Ulduar.

Comment by sabrelime

With this and daschal's bite I wonder which will come on top in the end. I think blizzard shot themselves in the foot by changing poisons to PPM, but then releasing two similar dps daggers, but with different speeds. All I can see coming of this is constant arguing between Mut rogues for months to come. The other possibility though is that slow and fast are equal now. The FA procs would cover the lower damage of fast daggers, and the higher damage of 1.8 daggers would cover the less FA procs. It would then just be up to your playstyle choice.

Comment by 220785

and if you're using Instant Poison as a Mutilate rogue you've gotta take a step back and rethink things a bit. asix is 100% right.

Actually, as a Mut rogue you should have IP on MH and DP on Offhand

Edit: Spelling

Comment by Weber

As very old muti rogue I can just this one thing:
https://www.wowhead.com/wotlk/item=45448
^^ This one dagger will be more tasty for main-hand in 3.1.
Only two reasons:
1) Instant poisons will be changed to PPM.
2) Maximize dps from mutilates.
Procs of energy without instant poison procs will have lower priority. So we need slow MH weapon with good DPS stat.
Actually it is also interesting to try slow (!) weapon in OH in 3.1 just because of new MP rogue talent. But I think this weapon will be best OH for rogue in muti build.

Comment by 329683

I don't think any of you realize the main attraction of having slow weapons for rogue skills such as mutilate. Instant attacks are based off of weapon damage. Fast weapons have a lower base damage, while slow weapons have a higher base damage.

Slow weapon ---> Higher mutilate damage
Fast weapon ---> Lower mutilate damage

Comment by 244934

the 3d model viwer remembers me my VITORINOX lol

Comment by 350897

I can confirm the dagger drops from heroic ulduar: XT-002 Deconstructor, got it last night.

edit: I'll post some pictures of it

Comment by Chase

I can't believe people are actually debating whether this is BiS or not. Without a shadow of a doubt, this is absolutely the BiS Combat OH weapon currently known. It's very likely BiS OH or close to it for all other builds as well.

MH's another story. It's clearly not an option as a Combat MH. For Mut, it's probably the second MH behind SR - if not, it's at the least very competitive. I have to admit that my knowledge of HAT isn't very deep, but it's probably BiS MH or close to it for them too.

Basically, unless there's another top-tier dagger out there that hasn't yet been discovered, this is the must-have weapon for every single dagger-wielding raiding Rogue out there.

EDIT: And of course, the day after I post this a top-tier 1.4 Dagger is discovered.

Comment by 156857

Disregarding all above comments, this is a good mutilate offhand. Even with 3/3 Master Poisoner, a fast offhand is desirable for stacking up DP after an envenom.

Comment by 172467

It won't be BiS combat if you are current BiS gear because the expertise is a wasted stat on the dagger. As we see more Ulduar gear, it may be though.

Combat currently caps Expertise from
Chestguard of the Recluse
Valorous Bonescythe Helm
2/2 Weapon Expertise in Combat Tree

Webbed Death still beats this dagger at Expertise Cap

Picking it up to use later as you get more gear would be wise though =)

Comment by 29642

While what you say is largely true, it's a bigger factor that slower weapons will proc more Instant/Wound poisons given the way WoW handles PPM enchants.

Your white attacks will generate the same number of procs regardless of weapon speed, but a slower weapon will result in more procs from yellow strikes.

Auto hits and specials have the same proc chance, regardless of haste.

I never said otherwise. I said that slower weapons will result in higher overall poison procs, because of the higher base chance to proc per hit.

Example: Wound Poison and a 1.4 mainhand vs. a 2.8 MH (for simplicity of math). The 1.4 will hit ~42 times in one minute, and on average 21 of those will proc poison. Additionally 50% of your specials will proc WP. With the 2.8, you swing ~21 times per minute, all of which will proc, and 100% of your yellow strikes will proc poison. Same number of white procs, twice as many yellow procs. Sorry if that's somehow unclear.

Comment by 106144

Close quarters combat rogue only, seems to me. Mutilate uses slow daggers now - you're either specced into master poisoner or you've got the envenom glyph - and the expertise makes it a nono for hunters.

Comment by 358299

Shares skin with Daschal's Bite,which honestly dissapointed me.

Comment by 51953

For a dagger that is supposed to be the next upgrade after Webbed Death, and is just as good for both specs as WD was, it has a horrible drop rate considering who drops it. After 12 kills on XT our guild has not seen one.

Comment by TheMaelstorm

This dagger is a really solid choice, especially for mutilate. It is the best among 1.5 weapons (see https://www.wowhead.com/wotlk/compare=45246;40368;44310;39427) without much doubt.
When compared to 1.4 daggers (https://www.wowhead.com/wotlk/compare=45484;45930;46024;39714 ) you'll see that Bladetwister (BiS) is quite close to this one. Statwise, GsS has more ap and crit. GsS lacks the haste Bs has but has expertise, which is more important to a mutilate. Top damage for two aren't two different either. But Bs has the advantage of a socket.

But of course, it all comes to speed. Being a 1.4 speed dagger with more dps, Bs is definitely BiS. But until you're the rogue that gets Bs when it drops... this guy will be your best friend.

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	Phase 2

Item Level 238
Binds when picked up

One-Hand	Dagger

195 - 364 Damage	Speed 1.50

(186.33 damage per second)
+55 Agility
+54 Stamina
Durability 75 / 75

Requires Level 80
Increases attack power by 1840 in Cat, Bear, Dire Bear, and Moonkin forms only.
Equip: Improves critical strike rating by 36.
Equip: Increases attack power by 78.
Equip: Increases your expertise rating by 31.

Sell Price: 23 1 26

Dropped by: XT-002 Deconstructor

Drop Chance: 10.00%

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