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Kommentar von Hyperlynx

I'd like to take this moment to thank the Death Knight class for, at least for a while, focusing the QQ off of us rogues.

Kommentar von 83344

Death Knights are a very unique damage-dealing class in that their damage is dealt by both melee abilities and spells!

They're as unique as enhancement shaman! Oh, wait...

Kommentar von dreadblood

we start with First Aid because many people lvling other classes wud have first aid at this level, thus for equality we get it (same reason we get a good set of blues for outland)

Kommentar von Toldry

So you're a Death Knight that just got to level 80, what now?

Well, the first place you should be looking for in order to get some new gear is these three instances:

And here are two lists of items "sets" you should try to get:

Tanking
DPS

Note that as Frost (No matter whether you're Tanking or DPSing), you need to get two One-handed weapons, while as Blood or Unholy you need to get one Two-handed weapons.

On both lists, the first column is the main "set" while the second one are some alternative items.

Kommentar von Archangel76

For a DK, the stat values really depend on your build. In general however....

Strength > Stamina > Hit (until cap.... which depends on if you use 2H or DW) > Expertise (until cap) > armor penetration / crit / haste (depending on your build) > agility

Agility moves up higher for a DK tank in this case. The above is generalized for a DK.
A lot of the dps armor has hit built into it so getting to the hit cap is generally less of an issue. The expertise cap can be a bit trickier. As for hit though, I frequently see a 2H DK with 300+ hit and in some cases, up to 500. In those cases, I'm usually helping them lower their hit rating to try and get other damage producing stats increased. As for stamina, it'll never hurt a DK to have extra stamina as you will be up close and getting personal with mobs. You can't tank if you're dead.... and your dps automatically drops to zero if you die. So..... bear that in mind.

One of the coolest things about DK's is the amount of options you have for dps'ing or tanking. The downside is, you really need to spend a little time planning out a build for effectiveness as you can get considerable dps or performance increases by shifting stats and talents even a slight amount. The Elitist Jerks forums for DK's are a good starting place, but not the end all be all. You really need to have a goal in mind when assembling your gearsets.

(Note: I pulled this from another post I made earlier today. It was relevant to the class in general so I added it here. I made a few additions to reflect the more general nature of this particular discussion)

Kommentar von slakhorn

Can someone link the DK starting gear?

Kommentar von Archangel76

Again..... magic words.....

The above is generalized for a DK

~~Otherwise..... agree with what you posted.~~ I take that back. I don't agree.

1) With Blood.... ArPen is not always greater than Str. Much of the gear comes with ArPen on it and there are limits to the effectiveness of ArPen. Without an amply amount of strength/attack power, your hits simply aren't going to be all they could be. The two work in tandem. It doesn't hurt to have gear with more armor penetration, but by and large, you'll see blood dps gemming for strength.

2) Unholy depends largely on the build you have and gear. ArPen became more useful with 3.3.3 due to changes to Scourge Strike, but if you have a frost sub-build, you get more out of haste. (Which is made even more interesting in that you've gemmed for Strength and not ArPen)

3) Hit and expertise are critical due to DW. Then Str > ArPen > Crit/Haste/Agi. As for Glyph of Disease versus Icy Touch, Glyph of Disease makes sense with 3.3.3. Glyph of Icy Touch used to be considered the third best, but with changes to Glyph of Disease in 3.3.3, you'll want to run dual disease on Frost dps.

Dps is pretty simple by and large. Kind of a one way street. Increase damage output. You have raw numbers here that will show you if you're more effective or not. The feel of a build is still important as if it feels awkward you'll never perform to the best of your ability. But in general, Strength and ArPen will never hurt for any dps build.

As for tanking............ a generalized stat weight would be.........

Defense (to the soft defense cap, which is presently 540 for raids in WotLK) > Stamina > Expertise > Hit > Strength > Agility > Dodge and/or Parry

Armor, can't really gem for that and any DK tank is going to upgrade for armor when they can. And let's face it, you are going to use plate armor if you're tanking. You can use various trinks as needed to increase armor, but that is situational. Defense plate typically has stats and armor geared for the purpose. You generally won't want to use dps gear unless it does not affect your survival.

Expertise and Hit are important for threat generation. You can get by under hit cap if you are at expertise cap. Main thing here is, managing your threat. If you're not hitting, you are losing threat.

Strength affects attack power which affects everything you do for threat generation. Attack power increases damage output for spells/abilities for DK's so an increase in attack power will equal greater threat. Strength also increases your parry rating. Trust me, if you don't have enough attack power, no amount of hit or expertise will make up for the poor threat generation when you have mages/warlocks cranking out 10k+ hits.

Agility is a good stat if you can find it on gear as it increases your armor, increases dodge, and improves your crit.

After that, dodge and parry can be both valuable. You'll get it on a lot of your armor sets.

Tanking is a balancing act. It's not like dps.
In tanking, you need to balance two things: survival and threat. Survival depends on defense, stamina, armor, agility, dodge, and parry (in that order pretty much). Threat depends on attack power/strength, expertise, and hit. Balancing both sides of this is the trick. A lot of survival stats are great, but if you can't hold threat, you fail as a tank. The flip side of that coin is, if you can't survive the threat you generate, you fail also. You are going to have to tinker with your build and gear to make a tank that plays well for you. You have to find the balance that works for you and your group.

One last caveat......
All of this changes once Cataclysm hits.

Kommentar von 296147

I think you should add that some of a Death Knight's abilities become even stronger when diseases are active.

Kommentar von 607939

Frost DW DPS w/ Glyph of Icy Touch:
Hit to 5% cap > Str > Expertise/Armor Pen > Crit/Haste > Agi

This was correct with 3.3.2. It is no longer correct with 3.3.3. Please refer to the Elitist Jerks forum where, quote:

Major

With the change to Glyph of Disease, there are really no other reasonable glyph choices. Howling Blast was convenient to use at one time, but since we will need to keep both diseases up at all time, it loses a lot of its value. Glyph of Icy Touch was previously the best 3rd glyph to use, but the changes to GoD have pushed it off the list.

Source: http://elitistjerks.com/f72/t83319-frost_dps_3_3_3_will_day_long_remembered/#ixzz0pNTV48nJ

In regards to the following statement:

Tanks generally should prioritize:
Stamina > Armor > Dodge > Expertise > Hit > Agi > Str > Parry

Tanks should prioritize the following:

Defense > Stamina > Armor > Expertise > Hit > Strength > Dodge > Parry > Agility

The argument itself is somewhat pointless, as most tank gear will have more armor than matching dps gear. Additionally, tank gear will usually have defense, dodge, parry, or block on it. Additionally, most tank gear will also have strength and stamina stats native to the gear. As a tank, you want to be aware of the following caps, as they are targets for your effectiveness.

Defense: Currently 540 for uncrittable in Icecrown Citadel and the other Northrend raid instances
Expertise: Currently 26 to eliminate a level 83 mob's ability to dodge, parry, or block an attack
Hit: Currently 276 to eliminate the inherent 8% miss on a level 83 mob

The other poster, Archangel, is correct regarding Strength as being the foundation for a Death Knight's attack power and the impact which it has upon their abilities and threat levels.

I recommend TankSpot for further guidance regarding Death Knight tanking.
TankSpot

Kommentar von 581568

Also, each death knight talent tree provides decent synergy -- you will usually have one of each class in 25 mans.

Ebon Plaguebringer; its only applied once, and that means only one Unholy death knight can have it, meaning having two Unholy death knights is very unwise, reducing one's DPS by quite a bit. However, to frost and blood death knights, the extra disease damage applies to their diseases, just like the extra magic damage does to spell casters (and maybe DK's death coil too?). Blood's extra attack power benefits every talent tree, and Frost has some uses, such as increasing a death knight's damage when all their runes are on CD, or even GCD (this is also maximizes the use of the 4 piece t10 set).

Kommentar von Evandar21

Thanks for making ~~all~~ most of the huntards reroll :D

Kommentar von dreadblood

can I say that ppl who whine that DK's start at 55... we did have to have a char at 55 before that though.. and also, the DK IS A HERO CLASS!, so yeah, they should get some special treatment! (and its not even that much special treatment)

Kommentar von batgirlthedk

Hi Hi don't even ask yes i'm a guy. Anyways for the most part since dks when live mine as for the most part always been a tank. At first it was rough the gear at our disposal wasn't the greatest and the talent builds for tanking were kinda bad to say the least. i do like how the talents flow now but it's saddens me i'll have to be a comformist come cata. i really did enjoy having my own spec something unique to me for my use not some copypasta print out. granted blood has self healing but to be honest i prefer frost dw tanking over it immensly becuase for 3 very good reasons

1. very few raids on my server have decently geared enhancment shamans
2. quite a few blood dk for abombs might
3. while i have no rotation anymore i outthreat pallies higher geared then me becuase of just about inf. rp resulting in spaming rune strike and spaming icy touch when killing machine procs coupled with the longer durations for your cds i just prefer frost tanking over blood and i will deeply miss it

before you start calling me a noob mind you i'm a icc most 25 geared tank 4 part sanc tanking gear so yes trust me i know what i'm doing link to my armory page :D http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Korialstrasz&cn=Batgirl

EDIT: both my specs are tanking specs i prefer to use my blood spec for soloing more then for live raiding so if you see the axe of culling there instead of my twins i was probably in bwl farming for my thunderfury

Kommentar von 364477

You're kidding? Blood spec is going to be the new tank spec? :(

That makes me sad. I was having fun levelling my frosty gnome tank. Level 70 atm! :D I do hope that frost stays a viable tank spec... I know that alot of people already tank sucessfully in blood spec but I really like frost.

I think the thing with DKs is they suffer from Pally/hunter syndrome... the class attracts alot of idiots.

... Oh, and there's alot of haters out there. I got kicked from a PUG just the other night because "OMG every1 knoes dks cant tank lol nub" >>

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