Im not sure if this trinket will be that great, There are not very many times where you drop below 35% making the proc useless in most (not all) situations.

Also as a feral tank I'm getting close to the armor cap already with the Aegis Buff from Black Heart and with ICC gear having more armor it may lead to it getting wasted.

評論來自 smiley001

If you ask me, this trinkets value/worth is incredibly difficult to simply label.

You have to take into account lots of variables - Are your raids more defensive or offensive oriented? obviously your odds of getting below 35% will vary depending on the quantity and quality of your healers - heck even the specific classes healing you can influence this (constant high amount of HoT uptime vs. direct-heals).

Then your other gear comes into play; do you have tons of health or a balanced mix of avoidance+survival stats? do you outgear the content?

Last (last I care to write down) but not least; are you fighting a boss with hard hitting abilities (think Gormok's impale) - or are you facing a faster hitting boss with predictable damage? to make things even more situational; to what extent is the boss dealing magical damage, which ignores the entire use-effect ?

評論來自 300829

At least now tanks don't need to remember to tip the ferryman when they die.

評論來自 293841

I beleive this is a reference to the practice of puting a coin underneath a dead man's tongue to pay the ferryman, charon to take them across the river styx into the afterlife.

評論來自 martinu

The proc is called Thick Skin.

評論來自 61946

I am still thinking like I did prior to 3.3, so in light of Blizz stating they are reducing the dmg a boss does per swing at cost of avoidance, my current evaluating process might be outdated.

That being said, I'd by far want a +stamina trinket but the issue I have with the trinket is rather the effect. Commendation of Kael'Thas was so good, since when you are below 35%, most of the time you'd much rather cross your fingers on dodging than making next hit, hit for less. This in the same way depends though on for what ICC bosses(and most importantly hm bosses) hit for, since the armor can count for ~3k mitigation, so if the armor increase makes you able to take another hit between 35% to 0%, then it might prove worth it, else the new +stamina trinkets will probably be a better investment.

評論來自 363245

I'm thinking that this trinket will go well with the blood draining enchant.
Boss hits you below 35% you get a free 2k or so heal and ~5k armor.
Could really make a difference between dying and living.

評論來自 233882

In response to GhostFlight.

First off, trinkets are always situational, so yes sometimes you might not have use for an armor proc. However in a heavy physical fight (deathbringer saurfang heroic maybe?) that requires you to have high avoidance (deathbringer saurfang heroic, mark of the fallen champion), this trinket wil truly shine. And don't expect to be using this trinket with the black heart, but instead of it rather. The black heart has a nice proc, but has pretty random uptime, the Corpse Tongue Coin procs when you want the damage reduction granted most, when you drop below 35% hp. This proc might just make the difference between life and death every now and then.

評論來自 409149

Picked this up today, and i'm liking it already. The static dodge is nice considering the 20% loss in icc and the proc is a life saver.

評論來自 Papey

seems worth it weather or not you go below 35% health

if you are gonig below then this gives you armor to help your healers keep you alive
if you aint going below 35% then you dont need a stamina trinket so you may as well go with one that has dodge on like this does, you dont need tones of stamina to stop you going below 35% health, you need it to stop you dying. which this trinket also helps you not do.

評論來自 306061

I use this trinket on my Paladin. I replaced Juggernaut's Vitality with Corpse Tongue Coin because of the mitigation it brings to the table. Sure, you could argue that 2k HP (before buffs) or anything with more HP is a better choice, but as another poster said, trinkets are situational. In TOC/TOGC, there was a lot of burst damage on tanks that required the need for large pools of HP so healers had time to react. In ICC, most large bursts of damage are physical (Festergut, Saurfang, Deathwhisper's Abominations).
This trinket adds roughly 4% physical mitigation which is lovely when combined on top of class damage reduction talents/glyphs such as Glyph of Divine Plea, Shield of the Templar, Blessing of Sanctuary, Ardent Defender, and Improved Righteous Fury. Without Ardent Defender, you're looking at 12% physical damage reduction before trinket. When trinket procs, the total jumps to 16%, and 36% when under 35% health.
Besides, when a boss hits for around half my HP pool (roughly 26k during Festergut soft enrage), the extra 2% dodge can really save my butt when I really need it when large heals are still casting.

評論來自 67359

Much better than an accompaniment to Ardent Defender, this trinket ties in nicely with Will of the Necropolis for Blood tanks. Tying anything to AD is much less useful due to the heal AD grants. Additional armor makes for very effective synergy with WotN and the cooldown being exactly twice the length of WotN makes for better synchronisation.

評論來自 548027

This item is useless for pala tank, i take this on Marrowgar, and i dead once without the Ardent Defender actived, seem it will share CD with AD,and CTC will be actived first than AD when you firstly got health below 35%. it sux

評論來自 360512

Having used this trinket for quite some time I find that it has no effect on my Ardent proc. I have had both of these active at the same moment, quite a few times.

評論來自 553742

This is alright, I guess.

My friend won this tonight in ICC 25 and he was bragging about winning this. After examining this, to a warrior tank, this doesn't seem to be incredibly helpful. The static dodge rating is alright, it's pretty much 2%. I have somewhat above average avoidance stats, so, I'm not extremely fond of it, but, it is nice. The proc is interesting, but, if you're dropping below 35% then you are in a bad situation anyway. It's helpful, but, I prefer the Glyph of Indomitability over it in some ways.

The static armor on the Glyph of Indomitability although less than the proc on this trinket, is always there and will help reduce the chance of getting to below 35% in the first place. The dodge usage is about five times more than the static one on the trinket here, and can be used in place of the proc in an emergency situation. Although, it does have a 2 minute cooldown, if you're nearly dying that much, then, a trinket proc isn't gonna save you, especially when this one also has a 30 second cooldown.

I would replace my Glyph of Indomitability with it, but, if I were to see it drop, I'd be a little depressed that the Boneguard Commander's Pauldrons didn't drop instead. It's a decent trinket by all respects, but, the 2% static dodge isn't amazing and the proc, although nice, is lacking a bit.

If you wanted a heavy armor proc, I'd use The Black Heart which still has its uses, and the 126 stamina, in my opinion, would be more valuable than 2% dodge, especially with the Glyph of Indomitability usage. The Black Heart proc obviously is random and so it would not be as useful as the Corpse Tongue Coin, but, just throwing ideas out there. Again, this isn't a terrible trinket, but, definitely could be ramped up a bit. For an ICC 25 drop, it is lacking. However, if I got Unidentifiable Organ, this trinket, if equipped, would be the first one thrown out.

Edit: I just won this Coin in ICC 25. The helmet dropped from Deathwhisper and the Legs from Marrowgar . After considering it a bit, I sold it to a DK tank who was w/ me in the run and was also in my guild for a Primordial Saronite and 200 gold.

Edit 2: This trinket seems to like me, as it keeps dropping off the Gunship. With no other tank who needs it, I "won" and now posess this trinket. I can see it having it's uses in heroic instances, fights like Saurfang in ICC or Gormok in ToGC. It's a good situational trinket, but, all around, it IS lacking and should not be the main trinket in a paladin or warriors' slot.

評論來自 Thanatos

The name, by the way, is a reference to the coin the Ancient Greeks put under the tongues of their dead, so that they could pay the Ferryman Charon, who could ferry them across the river Styx. If you look at the icon, you actually see a small owl on the coin - the signature animal of the goddess Athene and protector of her namesake city, Athens, who, obviously, portrayed her animal on their coins.

評論來自 AstroZombie

I'm pretty dissapointed by this item...depending on the cooldown of this 35% proc, The Black Heart is STILL better than this thing.

評論來自 235651

This trinket is great for progression. For farm content you either want stamina threat or constant mitigation. If your fighting bosses you know your going to wipe to a lot and/or see 35% or less a lot and the boss is physical damage you want this.
I can see a LOT of fights in heroic ICC 10 and 25 putting you below 35% health.

評論來自 489789

Just won this trinket tonight. I think it will be a nice proc to have when single-tanking Marrowgar on 10-man normal, since my health occasionally drops below 35% after a couple of successive Saber Lashes (especially after reset from Bone Storm, when healers are on the move).

評論來自 450260

The best way to compare dodge trinkets with stam trinkets is to look at the chance that they cause an extra melee attack to be necessary to kill you.

Let's look at the time between when you are at full health at a tank, you get hit, and then the # of hits on you before you get put back at max health.

If your stam trinket adds 3k health and the boss hits for 20k, then there's a 15% chance that the 3k extra health you have will make the difference and cause an extra attack to be needed. With the way HoTs and other heals work, it really is pretty random how much health you would end up with after some number of attacks (with the heals on you in between) knock you down to under 20k health.

With the way HoTs are rolling on a tank, its nearly impossible (especially in a 25 man) that a tank would take 4 hits in a row with no heals thrown on them.

Then to compare it to an avoidance trinket, you need to find the chance that your avoidance trinket would allow you to dodge an attack in the series of attacks sending you from full health to being low enough that one more hit could kill you. If there are no heals on you, it would take three 20k hits landing to knock you low enough that one more shot could kill you (assuming you have more than 60k health, which given the buffs for ICC now, is a reasonable assumption).

If you are receiving healing between attacks on you, then it will take more than 3 hits to knock you down that far - could be infinitely many, theoretically. It is impossible to sim this aspect of healing received, but in a 25 man, it is safe to assume that you will have an earthshield, sacred shield, prayer of mending, HoTs, etc. etc. on you making it take many more than just 3 hits to put you in danger of dying from one more attack (which you then still have a chance to dodge).

If it takes 6 attacks (due to your avoidance and the heals incoming on you) instead of 3 to put you in danger of being killed by another 20k attack on you, then 2%ish extra dodge from this trinket will give you a 12% chance to avoid one of the first 6 attacks, and another 2% chance to avoid the 7th and possibly killing attack, giving it a 14% chance to have saved your life.

The more health you have, the more useful an avoidance trinket will be due to the increased number of attacks it will take to put you low enough in health to die from one more attack.
The softer a boss hits, the more likely a stam trinket is to make the difference between living and dying from one attack, but it also means it will take more hits from the boss to put you low enough in health to be at risk, giving the avoidance trinket more chances to give you the one dodge that keeps you from being put low enough in health that you might die from one more attack.

It is not simple math the way Artharas thinks that it is. It is also impossible to sim due to the unpredictable nature of incoming heals, and due to a bad string of attacks not dodged, parried (or blocked) usually being the cause of a tank dropping dangerously low in health, rather than the inattention of healers. When it is the inattention of healers (due to human error, or legit factors influencing their ability to heal), then it is also impossible to sim.

Simply simming whether or not a trinket is useful, and assuming that 0 heals will arrive from the first attack until the tank is dead is not realistic.

The flaw in Artharas' math is that his calculations are only valid of the tank is going to get oneshotted by the boss. He assumes that there is only one attack made on the tank, and that no heals are done on the tank. Neither is at all realistic (unless you are trying to use a magetank on festergut)

評論來自 623918

"It does make avoidance less valueble.
Example:
You have 0% avoidance - 1% more avoidance decreases strikes that hit you by 1%
You have 50% avoidance - 1% more avoidance decreases strikes that hit you by 2%
You have 99% avoidance - 1% more avoidance decreases strikes that hit you by 100%"

That's the wrong way to look at it. If a mob swings at you 100 times during a particular fight, 1% avoidance will mitigate 1 hit, regardless of how much avoidance you already have. That 1 hit could be one of 50 that you avoid, or it could be the only one you avoid, but either way 1% will mitigate the exact same amount of damage during that fight (we are speaking on average here, of course). So no, -20% does NOT make avoidance any less valuable. However, -20% makes armor MORE valuable, since armor mitigates damage on every hit that gets through, making the proc on this trinket more valuable.

Still, I personally find this trinket rather sub-par for the ilevel, or at the very least very situational. Possibly useful in some fights, completely worthless in others.

評論來自 623597

I have been using this trinket on my tankadin for some time - the heroic version.

1. this trinket, 2% additional dodge, and ~4.5-5% Damage mitigation on proc.
2. ardent defender - 10% heal when go below 35% (or even on hit that would kill me)
3. the blood sucker enchant (forgot it's actual name) =)

I mean, if i die, people are really asleep at the wheel - or things have already gone irreparably bad.

Is it game altering? No. But, I have not seen a trinket where I can say - OMG, That just straight OWNz!
All trinkets are situational, and as I am too lazy to swap trinkets between every single trash pull, depending on it's size and composition of casters/melee, or even various bosses, I just put what is generally best, and roll with it.

For me, it is this trinket + the skeleton corroded key (which, I admit, is also not that great).

I have the unidentifiable organ as well, but it almost never stacks to full health =( Mobs either have (a.) casts, (b.) slow melee attacks.

Would I recommend this trinket to everyone? No. I am not doing that. But, for me, in the above mentioned scenario: talents/enchants, it works pretty well.

Edit: additionally, the rest of my gear is stacked stamina and armor, so I figured I could take any minor hit in this one trinket slot to not go with passive armor or stamina.

評論來自 625275

When ICC first came out, people looked over the loot table and made some assumptions. In particular, they assumed that this trinket would suck and the Unidentifiable Organ would awesome. Some people are still stuck in what they read back then. As it turns out, the UO is disappointing with its unreliable and rather low uptime, while this trinket is surprisingly powerful. As a paladin, when you combine CTC with Ardent Defender, you are pretty much unkillable for all practical purposes. Have to eat a few swings from Marrowgar by yourself? Have to live through Festergut after three inhales when one or more of your healers got taken out by vile gas? This trinket is severely underrated.

評論來自 celinamuna

Was wondering if this trinket can be good for rogues in pvp, considering that it gives gives a meh avoidance, but also increases our armor, by i'd say 80% making us take quite a lot less dmg for the duration.

評論來自 361747

So they nerfed items like Petrified Twilight Scale to decrease their armor. (It used to be ~2480 static armor, now heroic is only 736 static armor.)

However, they did not nerf the proc armor for trinkets like this. So compare 5712 armor from this trinket to Leaden Despair, which has gobs of raw stamina (427), but provides only 3420 bonus armor rather than 5712 bonus armor. This provides more proc'd armor than Earthen Potion which is only usable 1/fight, while this can trigger every 30s. (And only triggers if you are actually low on health.)

Now, the raw stamina is great, especially if you are below the survival soft cap. And certainly Leaden Despair is a blue pre-raid trinket. But still, the proc on this seems much better. My bear (~ilvl 353) is sitting around 45k armor. So this provides >10% bonus armor almost any time I drop below 35% health.

According to http://www.wowwiki.com/Armor the new armor cap for a level 88 mob is 56,916. (And the Armor coefficient is 18,972.5.) So I'm sitting at 70% damage reduction, and when this procs it goes to 72.7% reduction.

35% of my life is ~57k health. At 70% reduction, that is 192.5k EH. At 72.7% it is 208.8k EH. Or 16.3k bonus EH. Raw 427 stamina provides ~7,728 raw health, which is 25,760 total EH. However, since we're looking at the 35% mark, that is only 9k EH.

So Leaden might be slightly better overall. Hard to model the dodge, but a little bit more raw health gives you a larger pool to trigger the 35% mark. You don't get as much damage reduction. I wonder if you had both, if they would both trigger below 35%...

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