Enhancement Shaman:

Your T5 EP Values to compare this weapon to the Merciless Gladiator’s Cleaver (assuming that the MGC is being DW’d), Fury (OH) / Rage (MH), and Vanir’s Left Fist of Brutality (OH) / Vanir’s Right Fist of Brutality (MH).

Weapon DPS EP values of 9.03 MH and 3.70 OH are only valid for 2.6 speed weapons and are therefore not included in the initial estimate of overall item value. T5 is used because these, being badge-based, are theoretically equally available to players who have only done heroics and never seen Karazhan as well as people who have BT on farm.

MGC = 82 per; we assume DW, so EP = 164.
Fury / Rage = (75.6) + (87.6); EP = 163.2
Vanir L / R = (107.44) + (121.08); EP= 228.52

Now I’m going to try to include the DPS values. 2.6 speed weapons calculate to 9.03 EP MH and 3.70 EP OH. Using this information, we can theoretically estimate the EP of a 2.5 speed weapons to be 8.68 MH and 3.56 OH by solving for X via the two following formulae: MH – ((9.06 / 2.6) = (x / 2.5)); OH – ((3.7 / 2.6) = (x / 2.5)). Please bear in mind that this is not definite; the conversion of values is almost guaranteed to be non-linear! By this same token, a 2.8 speed weapon should therefore estimate at 9.725 MH, 3.985 OH.

With that understood, here’s how our values change.

Update: I did my math wrong. New numbers below.

Merciless Gladiator's Cleaver - 1405.175 EP DW (962.425 MH; 442.75 OH)
Rage / Fury - 1380.188 EP (950.868 MH; 429.32 OH)
Vanir Right Fist / Vanir Left Fist - 1489.24 EP (1015.12 MH; 474.12 OH)

By comparison, a Syphon of the Nathrezim theoretically comes in at 1473.742 EP DW (1024.445 MH; 449.297 OH). Bear in mind, too, that the lifesteal is not being factored into this equation. Whether or not the lifesteal is even enough of a factor to notice is another discussion entirely.

If I’ve done the math correctly this time, we suddenly find that Vanir’s may actually be a slight improvement over the Syphon. Someone please check my numbers to confirm this, because if this is true, this is insane.

Update: Pitbuller from EJ replied to my post there with the following comment:

Going at 2.6 * 2 weapon sto 2.5 * 2 weapons decrease physical damage only 1.1% and you suggest
(2.5/2.6 - 1) = -3.8%
So DONT over value speed factor. Allways use sim when compare weapons. Ep values for weapons isnt just enough accurate.

And he's absolutely right.

Update 2: As an aside, this pair of weapons is still inferior to the S3 Arena Axes when DW'd, but by only a very small margin, in terms of raw DPS (~10 DPS). Source

評論來自 131709

Anyone know if the haste on these affects a hunter's ranged attack speed?

評論來自 132475

Does anyone know if enchants are visable on these new weps??
eg moongoose 20 agi ect. If you know please reply asap. :)

評論來自 GoGoGodzilla

New SS is up. The other screenshot pictured is now the "old" appearance (the one that looks like the ZA claws).

評論來自 34369

From a rogue P.o.V. this weapon can actually be quite interesting for someone not doing above 1850 personal rating in arena, nor raiding BT.

I'm currently sword/sword combat with s1 MH, and the s2 OH.

Seeing the fist/sword is the second best dps combo for rogues, i'm very interested in this weapon. The following changes in stats...

+12 dps
+23 agi
-9 hit
-15 crit
+21 haste
+16 AP
-9 low end damage
+50 top end damage
+20.5 average damage
-0.1 speed

But the loss of speed for an MH results in two things.. lower SS's, but since the average damage is higher i will see them hit'n'crit for higher anyway, and i will also gain sliiiightly less mongoose/executioner procs cause of the ppm system together with instant attacks, but, i will get some more poison proccs ^^

Clearly a huge upgrade in my damage... any objections to this choice?

評論來自 Coldkil

as a rogue, i have dragonstrike in hand right now and it's quite impressive that i can stand at the same level of some 2sword / fist-sword rogue.

the point in dragonstrike is its speed (2.70, very little weaps has it) and its insane proc. only poor thing is mace spec :P which is not comparable to other talent builds.

dont think i will change it for this, but i'd like to try. maybe it will be a little upgrade.

評論來自 62301

Would these be worth it as a Fury warrior?

評論來自 isendims

Anyone know if they have enchant animations?

評論來自 138708

There is word going out on the official forums that the speed of this weapon on PTR is 2.6.
Could anyone with acces to PTR verify this?
Btw awesome looking with mongoose :>

評論來自 69886

i am wondering if i should get these. I currently have dragonstrike mh and talon of azshara oh. I am a fury warrior the top end on talon and dragonstrike seem to be higher which in my mind means better special attacks.

評論來自 140376

Are these fists good for a rogue? I have the 2 gladiator swords right now

評論來自 86756

For a rogue in T4 gear, getting the new fist weapons and switching from combat swords to combat fists will yield approximately a 30 dps increase before counting raid buffs. However, the new badge armor, although it costs more badges, is a larger upgrade than the weapons, albeit only slightly. Try this link and download the latest spreadsheet for more personalized information.

http://rogue.raidcal.com/

評論來自 Starl1ght

best pre-a3 MH weapon for rogue. 16\45\0 with Fist MH\Sword OH is very nice build, using it atm with Talon of phoenix, and will immediatly switch MH weapon to Vanir's Right Fist of Brutality

評論來自 30651

Dear Rogues,

It has come to our attention that some of you are unaware of the following information:

The four best weapon combinations in the game, as it currently stands and in roughly descending order, are

Warglaive of Azzinoth / Warglaive of Azzinoth

Blade of Infamy / Blade of Savagery (obviously, subbing either out for the corresponding Glaive improves it)

Vanir's Right Fist of Brutality / Blade of Savagery

Vanir's Right Fist of Brutality / Vanir's Left Fist of Savagery

What does this mean for all us rogues who don't enjoy PVP, yet want some good weapons to help our guilds break through T5 and see Hyjal and Black Temple?

It means, start saving dem badges!

評論來自 128295

I am still trying to figure out if this is the best buy for me, I have a choice..... I can do the following:

Buy these to replace my current fury weapons - s1 glad and fool's bane (Lol)

Or spend my badges on tank gear cause I still have a blue chest and legs (Even more Lol)

Both ways is a major upgrade but it all comes down to priority, it would sucks to buy the tank gear and have stuff out of kara- 25 man's Drop and leave me stuck in a hole wishing I went with the fury gear.

The weapons are what Im swaying toward cause they are s3/ and high end 25 man raid equivelent and currently I suck at arena and my guild isnt progressed far in 25 mans

評論來自 Swordy

Executioner and Mongoose show up very heavily on this weapon and the off-hand version for those that are wondering.

評論來自 Raous

A question...
My MH got 2.60 speed and 87 dps... And I heard from my rogue CL that Vanir's MH is a poor upgrade from my currently weapon. Anyone knows? Because I don't wanna spend 105 BoJ's in vain. Gratefull for fast replys.

評論來自 Corbon

165-308 damage on Spiteblade
180-335 damage on Vanir's

Just pointing out the obvious, since everything's normalized. The main point however is that the fists are easily available and don't require a 25 man raid. 150 badges is fairly easy to get, as opposed to farming instances and waiting for a specific drop.

評論來自 55042

Little note, althought the MH and OH stats are INSANELY awesome for rogues, I was kind of disappointed at the graphics. Compared to the screenshots posted here, my fist looks pretty poor graphically and you can actually see the pixels. The texture isn't smooth at all. Not to mention the clipping it does on my rogues wrist... :S

But oh well, small price to pay for having the power of the rainbow in the clutch of my hand. :P

評論來自 46845

i'm still unsure about these fist weapons, yea their great but the speed is a little fast for my liking as a enhancement shaman, i nearly have enough badges for it and it would shine with netherbane in OH cause bane wouldn't be stealing WF procs but theirs other things i could really use from badges aswell.

i can either get this or hope on Claw of Molten Fury(http://wowhead.com/?item=32946#comments) to drop and go with that.. spend badges elsewhere.

i have haste shoulders aswell so really don't want to drop below 1.50 with flurry and mongoose.. is it worth it? (MH netherbane OH s2axe)

評論來自 43573

heres my question and dont minus it...I'm a fury warrior and have been forever. I currently have the Dragonstrike in my MH and the Vanir's Offhand. Will dragonstrike be replaced by Vanir's MH? Please comment

評論來自 151899

I was wondering what everyone though for a fury warrior PVE end game dps, Dual Dragonstrikes or the badge vendor Fist weapons would be better dps. I crafted and enchanted a 2nd DS but I'm hesitant to drop the 105 badges, what you guys think?

評論來自 152184

I am switching from Daggers to fists as these BOJ fists are my obvious upgrade seeing as I hate arena......

What is the best way to go about it? Get off-hand fist as only 45 BOJ or wait to get main-hand fist? My daggers are the S1 pvp ones with Mongoose and Excecutioner. Therefore, I want to keep them on before the fist upgrades.... therefore is fist/dagger a really bad idea? I have never seen it before. Obviously I will eventually have fist/fist but the period of BOJ collection inbetween may take some time...

Comments welcomed!!

Rice

評論來自 148712

this and the OH are simply the best fists from PVE only... only prob is the badges... lets say u wanna get this fast... This and OH is 150 badges...

which means 150 badges for 2 wpns...

if you are a MH raider (yes, these are better than Hyjal i think) then u make about 2-3 badges a boss... A full run in this one week is what, 11 badges?

a full Kara run is 22 badges...

then a Mag run is 3 badges and so is gruul (6*)...

ZA is 12 but it resets in the middle of the week so 24 in a week max

TK is 9, SSc is 13

A heroic is about 1.5-2 hours...

with an average of 12 hours per day and with about 10 of those out for raidz u have 2 hourz which equalz to a heroic. Heroic is maximum 4 BoJs (UB as an example)

Total =>

11+22+3+6+24+9+13+4= 33+33+26=92 BoJ/week most (MH raider)

with all this in mind we see how someone can easilly get this thing in 2 weekz and also get his gear up drastically...

Warning! 92 BoJs/week R 4 obsessed ppl only!

if you only do Kara excpect to see this in 5weeks if you do 2 heroics a week (4BoJs each ofc)

To tell you the truth - i think this is a fair trade. You give up some extra hourz for heroics and if u do 1 heroic of 3.5 BoJ each day with the exception of one day for Kara that makes

=> 4*3.5+22= 14+22= 36, which means 4.16''' weekz, throw in a stable 4 BoJ hero and u have

=> 16+22=38 which means 3.9 weekz

GL m8s getting these 2 babies Just know that they can be brought into BT as well geared ppl and u rock in em!

P.S. the OH of bruttality with warr OH + 25% dmg is almost like having 2 MH dmg hits at once! I love this city

評論來自 148712

try to get the MH first, the Oh is easyer to come by... You'll get it eventually, dont waste ur BoJs on the OH before the MH, OH isn't as worth as MH

評論來自 152184

Thanks - I think I agree with you

評論來自 156664

I wsih there was hit rating on this item instead haste.like fury from ZA... still suspicious about sword spec is it worth to lose %5 or as a quck answer both sword swings can crit.. naah dunno dont wanna read more calculations on this issue...my childhood side says me use the one which looks like better

評論來自 105470

Great now I have 2 Dragonstrikes, Both Fist Weapons, and a Syphon of the Nathrezim on my fury warrior and I have no idea they all have great points.

I think I'm going to put the Dragonstrikes in the bank, and go with the badge fists. Any suggestions?
According to the latest warrior DPS spreadsheet, the two 2.5 Vanir's fists will yield the highest dps, over any other combination of the weapons you've listed, as well as the S3 2.6 weapons.

Link to spreadsheet Fury DPS Spreadsheet

評論來自 150652

I agree, the graphics... don't need to be so "pretty".

They just don't match they T6 armor.

Kinda look good on a shaman, but other then that...

Eew.

評論來自 Slit

The Fists of Fury look soooo much better....these are for n00bs that only run Kara and need to use their badges...

評論來自 Adeon

Hahah, that Orc screenshot is awesome. It looks like he's giving the finger! =D

評論來自 165734

내 장착무기셋 비자나르의 오른/왼 주먹들;;ㅋ

評論來自 Zaras

I just wanted to mention, according to shadowpanther's MAEP this is the 4th best MH fist wep in the game. So it will be well worth it if you don't have arena points or aren't in sunwell.

評論來自 170488

I am an orc enhancement shaman and i am currently DW the mercilless axes and i was wondering if these would be worth gettin even if i have the racial for axe expertise

評論來自 171268

I'm a fury warrior, and will be getting this and the left fist of brutality soon. I'm wondering what the best enchants for these are, and just looking for some friendly advice - I'm currently dual-wielding potency enchants, because I like the total 40 strength extra. However, I've seen it suggested to get executioner MH and mongoose OH for these fists.

Which do folks think? Dual potency for the strength, or Executioner/Mongoose?

評論來自 127543

BTW who is better thoose fist from island or from hyl trash mobs?

評論來自 Ro0ni

I'm a rogue with 4/5 T4 and chest from Nightbane, 1792 AP unbuffed.

Was wondering whether I should replace my http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32052 / http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32027 combo with
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=34893 / http://www.wowhead.com/?item=34950 ?

I do around 850-900 DPS in raids (from Karazhan to The Eye) and I was just thinking if I should save the badges for those weapons OR for the new badge armor that boosts my unbuffed AP a bit along with a couple useful stat aswell.

評論來自 158713

Im a 70 Fury PvE warrior with dual DS and it seems to me, based on the haste procs uptime being almost 53% these out DPS the fists by a subtle margin of around 4%, or around 7DPS~

評論來自 LoweStrife

Is this and the merciless gladiator's quickblade better. Then Blade of Infamy and Merciless Gladiator's Quickblade? Or is BoI and s2 offhand better then mainhand badge fist and s2 offhand? I am a rogue by the way.
(i'm currently wearing the Mount hyjal mh fist and s2 offhand sword. I want to know which would allow me to do more dps ?)

評論來自 66874

Has any1 tryed these on a BM hunter? just wondering...

評論來自 179892

in the screenshots y is there one of a fist wep from za?

評論來自 159409

I have the Left hand combined with a Breeching Comet. This combo provides better dps than the S3 axe, according to cheeky's and from my observations. I am a BM hunter and plan on getting the right fist as well. With our steady shot going from 1.5 cast to 2.0 cast time I think the haste is well worth it, and again it will increase my dps according to the spreadsheet right now too.

評論來自 128588

These weapons are still some of the best fist weapons around. Not for damage, not for stats, but because it lets you yell as you're about to kill someone "TASTE THE RAINBOW... AS I JAM IT DOWN YOUR THROAT!"

評論來自 johanponken

Also goes perfect with the Sun Cured leather set, as said here.

評論來自 Tenjen

for transmorg purposes, you can duel wield these sure but there are a lot of choices to match it up with

like

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