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Тема «Classic»
Тема «Thottbot»
Faction Champs as prot
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Сообщение от
cosmicguen
So we had our very first experience of the Faction Champs the other night (10 man normal mode) and...well, we /facedesked the night away. Expected, but frustrating.
For the record we pulled the priest and shammy healers, warlock, boomkin, rogue and paladin.
Our setup was prot warrior (me)
2x blood dps DK's (both are revising their specs for this, with at least one picking up a frost dps build based around hungering cold)
2x locks (only one had the ritual of doom, they both have it now)
arcane/fire mage
2x holy pallies
holy priest (now with disc off spec)
SV hunter.
With so many clothies in the raid we're planning to sic doomguards on the paladin and rogue (yay,
Cripple
). The one attempt we actually managed to down one of their healers was when we had a doomguard on the rogue. Our priest was next to useless as he got insta-gibbed every single time, so we only had the mage dispelling. Of course, he was the second target for the mobs almost every time, so we didn't last long.
I don't really want to swap to my arms offspec as my gear really isn't that great. I could probably manage to pump out enough damage to pull my weight, but I'm not sure it's worth losing all those stuns/interrupts from prot.
I'm running the 15/5/51 prot spec atm, but I'm just wondering if it would be worth using a more PvP-minded spec for this encounter? And since the rare occasions I do PvP as prot I use my PvE spec...what kind of spec would I look at? Something like
this
maybe? And is there anything really specific I should be looking to do as a prot warrior in this encounter?
For the record, I was assigned to interrupt the healer not being burned (we had better success getting the priest down first, rather than the shammy) and to try and get in the middle of them for Shockwave stuns.
We've got some more ideas for beating this, and we're just having fun getting to grips with it, so I'm fishing for prot warrior-specific tips here :)
Сообщение от
475201
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Сообщение от
Porcell
There are two tactics that work equally well, and it all depends on how your group is. The choice is "Healers first" or "DPS first." Almost always groups go in with the "Healers first" mindset, and it usually works. If you find it is not working, get interrupters to sit on healers and burst down the damagers first.
I just did a 10 ToC the other day and we were having problems doing the Healers First method. After a few wipes I suggested the switch and it went much better. I usually suggest you burn down the Melee damagers first, then pick off one of the healers. I find that the ranged damagers do put out a lot of damage, but most of the time it's DoT damage and easily healable. A melee can be controled-ish, but if it breaks free it can pretty quickly destroy a clothie or healer, which is why I suggest taking out the melee first.
If you have an interrupter keeping the healers busy even just 50% of the time, the rest of the DPS should be able to easily out-damage the heals.
The other benefit of that is you can almost taunt-tank and stun the melee for the whole duration of it dying if you kill it first. If you are just trying to control the melee it's much more likely that you'll get your taunt on CD, or you'll get feared or stunned, and the melee will take off and destroy a cloth wearer. With the melee dying first (and being controlled for that duration), the casters will not have to worry about running or kiting and can just stand still and light them up.
Сообщение от
cosmicguen
Fair enough. Pretty much everything else I've read runs along the basic lines as Porcell puts them. I don't
think
we had a crack at starting out by nuking the two melee but it's something I'll suggest tonight if we're still struggling with the healers.
We were running it exactly as jozy123 put it. It wasn't working. Might be time to switch tacts :)
Сообщение от
Sakkura
Generally, it's better to do at least one DPS before the healers, but the composition of enemies and your own raid can always change that.
Сообщение от
Docholiday77
bring an extra healer, works wonders
Сообщение от
Porcell
Just had another anecdotal experience with ToC10 today. DPS DK, 3 Rogues, Warlock, Hunter, DK OT, Warrior MT, Shaman and Druid Healer.
Pulled Priest and Paladin healers, Mage and Boomkin, and Enhance Shaman and Rogue.
Since out group had solid interrupts but only two healers we decided to kill damagers first. Sat a rogue on each the Priest and Paladin. I (warrior) tanked the rogue and we killed it first. DK OT tanked the melee Shaman and we killed it second. By the time we killed the first two melee, we switched to the Priest who as already at half health from the rogue soloing it. Then the Paladin, who has at about 80% health when we got to it, and then just cleaning up the last two ranged guys.
It was quite simple, I don't think anyone got even close to being in trouble.
Going for damagers first really is the best plan I think, even if you can only lock down one of the two healers.
Сообщение от
Ninjitsu
A little tip, that my guild and I experienced, while progressing in totgc.
There is a aggro table in that encounter.
1. the melee dps champs are allways headhunting the person in the raid, with lowest armor and lowest hp.
2. The healer champs are allways healing the target with the lowest hp of their own group. Doesnt matter if its a pet or class member.
That is extremely nice to know since you can litteraly control the encounter.
We did it by...
... having our dedicated tank (warrior) tanking in dps gear
... having 1 hard hitting dps go mental on one of their pet. doesnt matter if it was lock pet or hunter pet, so the champ healers wastes their heals on the "diversion"
... having a shaman spam purge heals of the kill target.
by doing that... Our tank could have full control on 1 of the melee dps that usualy run away from him or tearing our clothies apart. We use the killdpstac
for more information about the mechanic i was talking about. This link has all the answers
http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/forum/index.php?f=36&t=26639&rb_v=viewtopic
Сообщение от
Porcell
for more information about the mechanic i was talking about. This link has all the answers
http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/forum/index.php?f=36&t=26639&rb_v=viewtopic
Man, the background on that link makes it hard to read, and for some reason the text is about 110% the width of my screen so I have a horizontal scroll bar. Needless to say, I'm not going to read that page.
Another thing about ToGC25 Faction Champs, and we can't exactly figure out why it happens, but periodically almost every single one of the enemies will start to "stick" to one of the tanks. It used to happen often with our Druid tank, but it's happen to me as a Warrior tank also. I'd end up with all of the melee and even the ranged all attacking me. Everyone once in a while I'd notice one switch targets for a second, then it would flip right back to me.
We of course didn't complain when this happened. After what seemed like maybe 30 to 45 seconds, they would all start taking off and doing their own thing again.
Сообщение от
95311
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Сообщение от
356969
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Сообщение от
Porcell
Heard of copy pasting? copy the text to MO Word or something similare =) Then it should be np to read
Nice first post...
I actually lied anyway. I went back and read the post as linked. Interesting information. Not necessarily a 100% explanation of what happens during the fight (see "sometimes I tank everything for no reason") but interesting none the less.
Сообщение от
cosmicguen
Will check out that link when I get time. From the quick scan I gave it, it seems interesting, ty.
In the end we had a bit of raid shuffle, including swapping to alts - we had to anyway since we had to pull in standbys when a couple of our regulars had to drop out.
We're not 100% positive, but we think the masses of cloth coupled with a small 'overall raid dps issue' was the root of the problem, as it didn't seem to matter what our kill order was.
BTW: The only NPC to have a pet was the warlock, and we were going to use the "heal the pet diversion" tactic until someone noticed it only had 126hp. The whole raid panicked and threw the idea out the window immediately, saying that that must be a 25 man-only tactic. That can't be right, surely, since others in this thread have suggested the idea. The whole raid checked the little felpuppy out and reported 126hp, even me. I assume it was a bug or something?
Ended up taking a resto shammy (me), 3 hunters, 2 holy pallies, shadow priest, DK tank, prot warrior and a mage.
Much
better, although we still didn't get them down. I think by the time we got to that particular setup everyone had mentally given up and wanted to go to bed. The worst part was, on our last attempt the priority was down, second on about 15% when our warrior clocked an unlucky fear and missed a vital stun on a healer because I'd been jobbed and my tremor totem wasn't backing him up. We were living a hell of a lot longer though, and there are signs of "we can definitely do this", so that's cool.
I wanted another shot at it. A few of us did, but we were shouted down. Le sigh. Having said that, shuffling has actually taught us a couple of things, which we're integrating into the general "bowl o' tactics" we have.
Of course, resetting next week for a new batch of champs /facedesk /facedesk /facedesk
Sorry for the wall o' text, and thanks for the input guys, it's very helpful :)
Сообщение от
Foopeemoa
I know it has been said before, but it can't be said often enough. If you have the shaman healer in your FC encounter, you need nearly constant offensive dispels on your current kill target, as well as someone stomping the Healing Stream Totem. He will be putting up Riptide and Earth Shield on the target you are all focusing on, and if they are not purged/dispelled continuously you will struggle to get the first target down.
The warlock's pet has like 400k hp if I recall, the hunter's cat should be around 200k hp. Make sure if you have a dps on the pet that they do not actuall kill it. If I'm on my warrior, I'm usually interrupting one of the healers, and that really gives you the opportunity to see how often they try to heal the pets. Make sure your interrupters are watching who their healer is targetting, since there is no need to interrupt/stun them if they are healing one of the pets.
We usually kill the warlock or warrior first on normal mode in 10-man.
Сообщение от
marklartank
kill what's killing you first. it's a PVP fight, and so if you can stay alive, you win.
one problem i see - you have too many healers. even in togc10 we never use more than 2 healers. much of the damage can't be healed through anyway, so you're just gimping your dps. have one of your pallys go ret - they can and should still be dispelling like crazy.
for your priest, i love disc in this encounter. on normal, simply spam raid bubbles and you can almost solo heal the fight if your pally is a good dispeller. the reduced cooldown on mass dispell is also invaluable.
cancel your gift of the wild and shadow protection buffs, and ask your healer to keep you at 50-60% hp. you will be surprised at how much more you get targeted this way. i always swap to dps gear, then back to prot gear just before the pull to lower my hp. you should also disarm the rogue on the pull.
the lock is easy if people move out of hellfire, and the boomkin is a joke. have your mage sheep the priest as much as he can and use chains of ice on the pally.
be sure people know enough to run away when they are being targeted - so many people get stuck in PVE "stand still and dps" mode, they forget to run away from mobs. your hunter should be dropping frosty traps to make kiting easier.
put your hunter's pet on the lock pet - that should be enough to get some healing attention. you're not facing a tree, so purge spam should not be absolutely necessary, but a felhound on the kill target will still help.
here's what i would try for this setup:
1) zerg rogue - everyone but you. you stay on the shammy for interrupts and totem stomping. sheep the priest and make sure your ret pally is dispelling.
2) zerg shammy - you shift to the priest for interrupts.
if you get this far with everyone alive, it should be a win. i would kill the lock pet at this point, because it's annoying.
3) zerg pally - you stay on priest
4) zerg lock - you stay on priest
5) zerg priest - you move to boomkin
6) boomkin go byebye
oh, and don't forget to keep spell reflect on cooldown :)
Сообщение от
cosmicguen
if you get this far with everyone alive, it should be a win. i would kill the lock pet at this point, because it's annoying.
During a couple of our many attempts we did actually try this.
It just seems that the second our mage dies, the zerged target pops back up to full health and we get nuked fast and hard. The fact that our mage is pumping out about 9k dps without a BL has not gone unnoticed...general raid consensus seems to be "not
quite
enough dps", so swapping out a healer should turn the trick.
I agree we had too many healers, and next time we'll probably be running with 2 hunters, 1 DK, 1 prot warrior, 1 ret pal, 1 rogue, 1 warlock, 1 resto shammy, 1 disc. priest and 1 'other' (DK probably).
Question though: everything I've seen that includes the warlock/hunter pets says "don't kill it, use it to soak up their heals". You say "kill it as third priority". I was told that if the lock's pet was killed he'd just summon another one. Is that right, or was someone feeding me lies? I thought he'd have a bit more to concentrate on than just summoning a new pet, tbh, but I got told to shush :(
Сообщение от
marklartank
how is your mage dying? he has blink, iceblock, frost nova, ...many ways to escape. don't forget you can taunt on normal too - even though it just lasts a couple seconds, don't overlook it.
have him use ice armor (or w/e the one is that increases his armor). the slight dps loss is worth the extra armor which lessens the chance he gets targeted by melee.
the lock won't summon a new pet. we kill it in the middle somewhere because it's an annoyance to casters and we have a caster heavy group. once the rogue and shammy are dead, you're in pretty good shape, which is why i picked that spot, but feel free to adjust the pet's death to whenever it suits you.
Сообщение от
cosmicguen
Good to know, ty.
The mage is dying usually to having the rogue and the pally deciding they want to tag-team him. The first time they run for him he's ok to keep them off using his various cooldowns, but that does usually take all his cooldowns.
Unfortunately, even if both mobs are taunted/DG'd/whatever off him, it doesn't take long before they're back on him and he has no cooldowns to save himself, or he's simply stunlocked and nuked before he has time to react.
As far as I can tell he's standing as far away as possible so the melee should have a job getting to him, but he claims they're nuking him down before he even has time to sheep anything.
Huh. Now I've said that I realise it shouldn't be physically possible for that to happen, unless he's sat picking his nose/tabbed out/ordering pizza while we're pulling, ofc.
I must have a quiet word...something's not quite right, methinks.
Сообщение от
160639
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Сообщение от
236265
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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