Coming back to Holy: Advise

Сообщение от Magnerz

Hello again, hopefully a you nice lads n lasses can help me clear up a few things.

At the moment I raid as protection, and am working through ICC, i did however have a very brief spell whilst leveling where i was holy, so although i'm not completely clueless i do have a few question. (Oh and i also raid as a holy priest, so healing end-game content isn't a new principle either)

I gather that Int stacking is the way forward these day, hit Meta req. the gem straight up int.
- Do you go for the "weaker" chants of +int on wep/bracers aswell?
- Is there a specific number for a socket bonus where you should gem accordingly, is the above rule of thumb true for all cases?

My holy gear is very very weak, especially as its technically my "off-off-spec", i'm planning to collect a full set via emblems whilst tanking. Apart from the obvious T9 set, Trinket, Rings, Conq. Belt, Trink from ToC 5hc, is there anywhere else i need to be specifically going for? (Cash isn't plentiful for me, have c. 2K G so spend on gearing up for holy gems/chants etc)

Couple of other things;
- Do you take the SP+Mp5, or the SP+crit head/shoulder enchants?
- Stickies say if you are dual tank healing to beacon one tank, stick a SS on him, then primarily heal the other tank - surely this means the FoL HoT effect wont proc up?

What kind of mana pool/spell power should i have before i enter say: ToC 10, ICC 10 ?
- I realize skill and knowledge of paladin healing style will count for much more than these raw stats, but just for a rough guideline...

Glyphs: Thinking of taking; SoW, HL, Beacon. Should i reconsider (main consideration is SoL>SoW glyph for more output...)

Chosen Spec: the standard 51/17/0+3 (3 in Imp Devo Aura - 1 point switched from Imp BoW -> Blessed Hands)

Thankyou kindly for anyone who has the time/patience to answer these questions =)

P.S. this is a work in progress i am in no real rush to gear this up.
P.P.S. I have read the sticky relating to holy pally PvE.

Сообщение от skribs

I gather that Int stacking is the way forward these day, hit Meta req. the gem straight up int.
- Do you go for the "weaker" chants of +int on wep/bracers aswell?
- Is there a specific number for a socket bonus where you should gem accordingly, is the above rule of thumb true for all cases?

I stack pure int, and use a nightmare tear to activate my meta. I go for the bracer and weapon int enchants. I do not gem for socket bonuses, except I put my tear in the highest socket bonus.
Some would say past 30k unbuffed gem SP instead, but I like my method.

My holy gear is very very weak, especially as its technically my "off-off-spec", i'm planning to collect a full set via emblems whilst tanking. Apart from the obvious T9 set, Trinket, Rings, Conq. Belt, Trink from ToC 5hc, is there anywhere else i need to be specifically going for? (Cash isn't plentiful for me, have c. 2K G so spend on gearing up for holy gems/chants etc)

Trinket is from ToC 5 Normal, not heroic. Also get the 245 badge trinket. That is 1st and 3rd BiS, the DMC:Greatness is better than the 245 trinket (but also much more expensive). Other than that you're in the right spot - and go on to the ICC normal/heroic modes when you can do them. ICC 5-man normal offers Emblem of Triumph still.

Couple of other things;
- Do you take the SP+Mp5, or the SP+crit head/shoulder enchants?
- Stickies say if you are dual tank healing to beacon one tank, stick a SS on him, then primarily heal the other tank - surely this means the FoL HoT effect wont proc up?

EJ suggests both as options, I prefer SP+Crit. The FoL HoT does not transfer to your beacon target, this implies you are switching back to your beacon target for 1 FoL to keep up the HoT. The HoT itself is very weak (our focus is HL).

What kind of mana pool/spell power should i have before i enter say: ToC 10, ICC 10 ?
- I realize skill and knowledge of paladin healing style will count for much more than these raw stats, but just for a rough guideline...
Your mana pool is never big enough. In all actuality, it depends on your group makeup and how good the other healers are.

Glyphs: Thinking of taking; SoW, HL, Beacon. Should i reconsider (main consideration is SoL>SoW glyph for more output...)

Chosen Spec: the standard 51/17/0+3 (3 in Imp Devo Aura - 1 point switched from Imp BoW -> Blessed Hands)

That's what I went with, and I am my guild's top healer.

You sound like you're on the right track and have done a lot of research already, hope my information helps.

Сообщение от 228908

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Сообщение от Brique

Hello again, hopefully a you nice lads n lasses can help me clear up a few things.
Gladly!

I gather that Int stacking is the way forward these day, hit Meta req. the gem straight up int.
- Do you go for the "weaker" chants of +int on wep/bracers aswell?
- Is there a specific number for a socket bonus where you should gem accordingly, is the above rule of thumb true for all cases?
Hm, I used to say that the weapon enchant should be SP because of how much SP it ended up being. But in all honesty, that was before you could get 2000 SP from badge gear. Now I'm saying Intellect to the weapon is the best idea.

I only use Brilliant King's Amber and a single Nightmare Tear in a blue or red socket that gives the most SP or Intellect. I throw it into the helm, because that seems to be the heftiest SP bonus and you'll never have to regem the rest of your gear to adjust for upgrades unless the helm socket is a Meta + Yellow. Really, there aren't many viable helmets that are going to screw that rule of thumb up. Just put the Nightmare Tear into the best socket bonus you can.

(Cash isn't plentiful for me, have c. 2K G so spend on gearing up for holy gems/chants etc)
I really want you to look at some gold blogs. There's no reason you should have less than 10k gold. The Just My Two Copper forums are a decent place to look. From what you've said, I can see you have two characters to earn money with. That definitely means you have a few ways to make gold besides the obvious farming.

Couple of other things;
- Do you take the SP+Mp5, or the SP+crit head/shoulder enchants?
- Stickies say if you are dual tank healing to beacon one tank, stick a SS on him, then primarily heal the other tank - surely this means the FoL HoT effect wont proc up?
I take the Crit ones out of habit. Mp5 is just too static of a stat for me to really feel like it's affecting my character at all.

I've started to SS the tank that doesn't have Beacon of Light on him; I'll more likely be casting on that tank. It's worked perfectly. I don't like not utilizing Beacon even for a single cast. Just seems like a waste. :What kind of mana pool/spell power should i have before i enter say: ToC 10, ICC 10 ?
- I realize skill and knowledge of paladin healing style will count for much more than these raw stats, but just for a rough guideline...
Most gear above 219 for ToC 10. Most gear above 232 for ICC 10.

Glyphs: Thinking of taking; SoW, HL, Beacon. Should i reconsider (main consideration is SoL>SoW glyph for more output...)

Chosen Spec: the standard 51/17/0+3 (3 in Imp Devo Aura - 1 point switched from Imp BoW -> Blessed Hands)
Do use Glyph of Seal of Wisdom. Holy Light is your HPS, and it will suit everything you ever do.

And yep, that spec is fine. I don't know why people have started to hate Improved BoW as much as they have, I still think it's necessary for raiding, even if it is only 9 mp5, that's 9mp5 no one will get otherwise. But skipping it does nothing terrible to your raid.

Сообщение от pezz

I gather that Int stacking is the way forward these day, hit Meta req. the gem straight up int.
- Do you go for the "weaker" chants of +int on wep/bracers aswell?
- Is there a specific number for a socket bonus where you should gem accordingly, is the above rule of thumb true for all cases?

If the bonus is a big chunk of int you could match socket bonuses, but they'll mostly be ignored. As for the enchants, depends on if you want throughput or longevity more, and the cost of things.

My holy gear is very very weak, especially as its technically my "off-off-spec", i'm planning to collect a full set via emblems whilst tanking. Apart from the obvious T9 set, Trinket, Rings, Conq. Belt, Trink from ToC 5hc, is there anywhere else i need to be specifically going for? (Cash isn't plentiful for me, have c. 2K G so spend on gearing up for holy gems/chants etc)

Just a note: T9 bonuses are terrible. The gear isn't bad, but if you can find better gear don't fret breaking bonuses. You don't need to buy expensive crafted gear. Heroics gear got me into ToC 10/25, and that got me into my guild's ICC 10 progression raids.

Couple of other things;
- Do you take the SP+Mp5, or the SP+crit head/shoulder enchants?
- Stickies say if you are dual tank healing to beacon one tank, stick a SS on him, then primarily heal the other tank - surely this means the FoL HoT effect wont proc up?

Up to you on the head enchant, more or less. I took mp5, I wouldn't say it was wrong to take crit. The idea was that you'd cast one FoL directly on the beacon every 12 seconds or so to keep the HoT going if you want it. Since it doesn't refresh you can't keep rolling FoL on your SS target and make any use of the HoT.

Glyphs: Thinking of taking; SoW, HL, Beacon. Should i reconsider (main consideration is SoL>SoW glyph for more output...)

I stand in melee range and I literally never use DP on the first half of ICC 10 because of SoW procs. We even had one of the other healers die after the first exhale on Fester and I still didn't have to DP. There's a holy paladin I usually raid with who always has less total mana gained at the end of fights than me, despite having a higher mana pool and taking a sub-ret build for crit instead of my sub-prot one, AND he uses DP, but he uses SoL instead of SoW. That seal, up until content that you are really only barely geared for, can be 50% of your mana regen and save you ever putting an MS effect on yourself. And once you get to the point where you literally can't even use an HS every once in a while to make the GCD force you to do a melee hit, you're going to be glad your spells cost 5% less.

Сообщение от skribs

I've noticed every other poster saying "MP/5" and "crit" on the head/shoulder enchants, I think this highlights the "you can use either."

I think I wouldn't go with Imp BoW if I knew another pally had it or if I knew a shaman would be covering it (since that's mandatory to get mana tide).

Pezz is right about SoW preventing DP. I only use DP if I had to be battle rezzed or if for some reason I spent more mana than I planned on (e.g. Valithria if one of our healers missed a portal - don't ask me how it wasn't my fault - and we go for an extra portal in the rotation).

Сообщение от Magnerz

Wow, some very helpful responses and my problems are cleared up, now just time to collect the gear - just farmed the 245 trinket =)

Edit: right i actually do have some more questions for everyone :)
- After Intellect comes?
> Spell Power
> Haste
> Crit Rating
> Mp5

Which order should i aim to get these in?

Cheers Mag

Сообщение от 167353

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Сообщение от skribs

SP is more powerful than the other 3, but you get that already anyway.
Haste is most important to the cap. If you're going for the FoL/GCD cap, this is 676, and if you're going for the HL cap you won't hit it.
After that, I consider crit > MP/5 because MP/5 provides no throughput, and crit provides regen and throughput.

Сообщение от 323257

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Сообщение от TheJohan

As a paladin without any resemblance of manaproblems, i prio: haste>crit>mp5.
Gem for pure int, support your meta with a tear in any slot that gives you the most bonus (probably head).

Сообщение от skribs

100 Crit on gear = 50 MP/5 on gear
100 Crit = 2.178% crit chance
Crit restores 382.2 mana from HL
With 1.33 sec HL cast and judge every 10 sec, 3.38 HL's/5 sec.
3.38*0.02178*382.2 = 28.1 MP/5
Difference = 21.9 MP/5, or less than half the original amount. Plus your heals are 1% more HPS and HPM.

Granted, this is best-case scenario, but you're getting more than half the regen by having crit instead of MP/5. At that rate, I'd prefer the throughput.

Сообщение от pezz

If you're going to literally spam holy light, you should probably pop some kind of cooldown anyway, and any other conceivable scenario is going to make crit look worse for throughput than it does there, and you're already coming close to cutting your regen in half for a small amount of overhealing.

Сообщение от skribs

I know I said I'd prefer the throughput, but the way I see it is EJ lists both MP/5 and crit shoulder/head enchants as viable options. I think they're both viable, it depends on what you need. But as you have to choose 1, I chose crit.

Fact is, anyway, there are very few haste+mp/5 pieces in ICC. And note that 3 of the 4 pieces there are mail items, the 4th is a ring.

So you're left with getting haste+crit and then crit+mp/5 after the haste cap.

Сообщение от pezz

Oh, we were just talking about head/shoulder enchants? Something like that is a personal preference, definitely.

As for ICC loot, of course we're talking theory. There's no such thing as pure strength and crit plate, but every overcapped Ret paladin drools over the thought of it. At least crit is more useful for holy than haste and arpen are for ret.

Сообщение от skribs

I'm not just talking about them, but if EJ lists both as options then its easy to assume both are viable. On the enchant, 10 MP/5 = 20 crit, and on gear you get the same ratio. So it makes sense that when choosing gear, the value of MP/5 vs. crit is up to personal preference, and is why I say crit =~ MP/5.

The personal preference part is why you and I can argue for days on "CRIT" "MANA PER FIVE" "CRIT" "MANA PER FIVE" or even make it look prettier "Crit provides efficiency and throughput (read: CRIT)" "MP/5 provides more efficiency (read: MANA PER FIVE") but we're never going to come to a conclusion.

Сообщение от 323257

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Coming back to Holy: Advise

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