Brewmaster for DPS... is this a thing?

Сообщение от Tyristrasz

So I've been Brewmaster since lvl10 and I've been having a pretty decent time running dungeons, and quite generally having a lot of fun.

It's actually not as difficult as I'd initially feared, and I'm finding that in general, I like tanking as a Brewmaster about as much, if not slightly more than a Protection Paladin.

That being said, however, I've started to notice that in the last ten levels or so, I'm running into more and more groups that have at least one or two other Brewmasters running as well.

This wouldn't be a huge problem if not for the fact that all of us inevitably end up running around with the same gear (full Stained Shadowcraft set, plus or minus a piece here or there), with the same level of weapons. In general, it seems like the only real edge I've got on them not yanking aggro (and I'm talking full blown aggro here, with them using all their AOE threat-gens in Ox Stance) is that I'm usually put into groups with the other Brewmaster's about two to three levels my junior.

So my question is: Is this a thing now? Do we have a lot of Brewmasters running in groups all vying for the top spot in the aggro charts, or will this eventually fall by the wayside as tanking AOE damage falls to the wayside at later levels?

Сообщение от asakawa

You're really finding it a major issue? I've levelled exclusively through dungeons as a Brewmaster (now 68) and I've had only one other Monk who signed up as both tank and DPS without the intention of using a DPS spec/stance. It's definitely annoying and if I signed up as both I'd be sure to either have a DPS spec or simply use the non-tank stance and deal with the reduced number of abilities but sadly not everyone is entirely considerate.

That said, I've never been beaten by another monk on AoE and rarely on single target. I'm sure this will happen as I get closer to a serious level but it's understandable that people want to sign up as DPS and use tank abilities.

I guess at that point it's up to you how you deal with it. Do you just keep going since dungeon content is generally very easy (after the whole group left me and a healer did all 19 bosses in BRD, duo) or do you insist that the DPS play properly and refuse to keep going or initiate votes to kick?

The ball's in your court but I suppose my suggestion would be to register your displeasure but if they won't change then just get the dungeon finished quickly (perhaps adding the other player to your ignore list to ensure you don't meet them again).

Сообщение от Tyristrasz

It didn't start out to be a big issue, no, but when I started to notice that I was losing aggro ridiculously easily, I started to inspect each of my fellow monks en route to the next pull. And each one that I suspected of being Brewmaster spec (which was a pretty easy call when you see them using Хмельная дымка and Пламенное дыхание) ended up actually being Brewmaster.

This hasn't yet proven to be an actual problem, per se, since nobody ends up dying (though the offending DPS have come pretty close), but I'm glad to know that it's not something that's actually become commonplace everywhere.

I think that in the end, until it becomes a problem where heals are spread thin (somewhat of a rare shot there, giving that most healers I've encountered so far are fully decked out in heirlooms), I'll just shrug it off like I would a Hunter (intentionally or otherwise) leaving Taunt enabled with their pets.

Just bothers me a tiny bit because of the inherent laziness that seems to be involved with it. Same basic stats and same gear... why not dual spec?

I can understand if they just need to be at the top of those DPS lists because of the better AOE damage we've got at lower levels, but if that's the case, just queue up for solely tanking.

Сообщение от Adamsm

Heh tanks as dps has always been a thing; I've seen/experienced prot warriors doing dps while still in defensive stance, so called dps death knights running in blood presence, people who have been convinced that Bear is for dps, and the odd two hander prot paladin. Since the tank specs allow for 'faster' leveling at times, it's just something you have to sigh and continue on through.

Сообщение от Tyristrasz

Since the tank specs allow for 'faster' leveling at times, it's just something you have to sigh and continue on through.

True enough, but... gah, I dunno. If you wanna tank, queue as a tank. If you wanna DPS, queue as DPS. If you wanna queue as both, you dang well better be dual-specced!

I miss the days of losing aggro solely because of (short of other fight mechanics) the DPS was focusing on an off-target.

Сообщение от Thror

I used to see a lot of Brews at lower levels. It definitely stops being a thing at the level cap, or let's say, "at the levels where Stained Shadowcraft stops carrying you through content".

I have to say, I was much less annoyed by DPSing brewmasters than I was by hunters with their pet's taunt permanently on.

Сообщение от asakawa

Yeah I agree with Hunter pets. At very low levels (sub 30) I was seeing several of the DPS classes use their taunts randomly. My assumption was that this was new players just going hog-wild, pressing... all the buttons!

Сообщение от Tyristrasz

lol yeah, there were some occasions in there where I'd see Warriors pulling single-target aggro. And yeah, most of the culprits end up being either Hunters with taunt left on or competing Brewmasters.

Kinda sad that I'm gonna have to wait to 80-85 before I stop seeing it so much.

Just gonna keep holding onto hope that it stops a bit sooner.

's functionally no different than seeing several Protection Paladins flingin' their Captain America shield everywhar.

Сообщение от Raleandris

To be fair, prot dps is much more of a thing at low levels since, well, Avenger's Shield is OP all the way to level 80 or so, it just hits way too hard.

Сообщение от Adamsm

To be fair, prot dps is much more of a thing at low levels since, well, Avenger's Shield is OP all the way to level 80 or so, it just hits way too hard.

Yeah, but if you want to prot DPS, at least get out of defensive spec/presence/stance/Righteous Fury when you join a group and you aren't tanking.

Сообщение от Tyristrasz

I've very rarely been in low level instances where other party members have DPS that tops mine as the tank simply due to all the AOE moves that we get to keep the threat (and the fact that so many of them do such high damage in order to help with that task).

If you wanna do Protection Paladin DPS, queue as Tank to be courteous.

Though in the end, if the Healer is okay with it, whatevs I suppose.

Сообщение от Fyrite

Very late, but in my defence as a protection paladin with a holy pally off spec, I queue as all three. I can heal, tank, or DPS. If I'm DPS'ing as a prot pally, I have RF off, I AS only what's been pulled, or to quickly silence a caster so it can be pulled into range of the tank, or as a quick damage hit to take down a couple mobs running away. My first and second actionbars, have been segregated to single and AoE abiliies, that allow me to swap from boss / single target DPS to AoE / general tanking abilities.

If I've ever pulled from any tanks.... they weren't tanks. Such as the WW tank I've pulled threat from ..... without RF up -.-

Generally, you wont stop tanks queueing as DPS, it helps to lessen wait times if a tank can also DPS in their current spec. The only thing I really worry about is DPS, or even healers, attempting to tank... That's when those of us 'tank DPS'ing' tend to step up, pull threat, and hold it so that the entire group doesn't go down hard.

There have been times when I've healed, and found myself with a tank that isn't geared correctly, is in whites (I have seen this at 60.... SIXTY!), wrong spec, or trying to do something really, really, really stupid. Like hold threat on a ranged mob while keeping it at a distance. Occasionally, I have someone with me who is tank speccied and just DPS'ing to get an additional queue time. More often than not they step up to help, occasionally hunters do it as well, pausing just long enough to pull out a tanking pet.

The only times I truly despise tanks getting DPS queues... is when, for some ungodly reason, they insist on tanking. Despite someone else currently tanking who's doing a decent job that hasn't had a single complaint.

And apologies for the mild rant.

Actually, I've gone off topic. This could all have been summed up with one word.

Yes.

Сообщение от Thror

The crucial difference is that when you turn off your Righteous Fury, you do not lose all of your highest damage abilities. Brewmasters do, when they flip out of their Ox stance. So in general, if you see a Brewmaster that queued as a DPS, he will either be competing for threat with the actual tank, or he will be pulling bad dps (although it is quite possible that a competent player could generate more dps with a brew monk in tiger stance, than an incompetent player with a properly specced dps character).

Сообщение от Fyrite

Сообщение от kellbyb

several Protection Paladins flingin' their Captain America shield everywhar.

That sounds amazing. I'd pay to see it.

Сообщение от 1058168

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Сообщение от 1058168

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Сообщение от Thror

Well, the second I can get some leather heirlooms, I'll do this. I'd actually find it a challenge to show that it is possible to be a tank, to DPS, and still perform above and beyond what most people would expect, without stealing threat from the tank.

Damnit... now I wanna see if I can do it, not wait for the heirlooms -.-
I would expect you to pull 22k tops on a single target with a Brewmaster, while not tanking and not actively receiving Vengeance from something and itemising your gear for tanking. Even if you would perform beyond that, you would still be far from half of what I expect from a really good fully speced dps. And trust me, in this tier, you can not go far beyond that. I did it on a few bosses which are tanked by a single tank and I didn't want to respec. Your global cooldowns are not shorter than mine and you wouldn't have any more abilities in Tiger stance than I had.

The ONLY time I've ever seen this happen is when I end up in groups that are made up of people from Brazil. 100% the only time. The also do that with Pallies and Warrior. I've seen Prot Warriors with NO Shield, I've seen Ret Pallies trying to tank and now Brewmasters DPSing. At lower levels I'd say it's not a problem and when I run a tank and they are in a tanking spec and die from it I say well you were in a tank spec so I expected that IF YOU pulled off me, You would be able to handle it. I do inspect everyone whom I run with. I ended up in a group once with an Elemental Shammy Qued as heals with no Healing spec (looked them up on Battle net). I've also seen a Shadow Priest Que as heals. Haven't seen that happen with druids yet but I'm sure it'll happen. Also I'd add the Shammy told us WE all sucked and he's run as heals for several dungeons and had no problems healing. This was a level 70ish dungeon this happened in to.
Oh my, I totally forgot you meet BR people on US servers. Sucks to be you man, lol.

Brewmaster for DPS... is this a thing?

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