Understanding FCFS - A Ret's Guide to Face Rolling

Postado por Hyperspacerebel

Here's my start on an FCFS explaination. I have never done theorycrafting completely from scratch like this, so please correct me if I get something wrong. This is also very much a work in progress, but I try to get back to it as often as I can.
And I know the formatting is a bit clunky...once I get everything down I'll get it organized better.

Issue: What's the best FCFS rotation for Ret?

Single Target (heroic geared):

Hammer of Wrath
Crusader Strike
Judgement
Divine Storm
Consecration
Exorcism
Holy Wrath

Theorycrafting

FCFS rotations are set up based on the dps of the individual ability, not damage per hit. So for a heroic-geared pally, all we need to know are the stats to determine FCFS.

Heroic Geared Ret Pally
4072 AP self-buffed
31.88% melee crit (including Heart of the Crusader)
27.3% spell crit ( " )
8% melee hit (for all practical purposes)
10% spell crit ( " )
20 expertise (with SoV)
14.13% Arm Pen
1015 Spell Power

Judgement:

Assuming boss of course, which implies SoV.
+ 10% for each stack already on the target
Seals of the Pure increases above damage by 15%
49.88% crit
Unable to be dodged and follows melee hit, thus will never miss
Holy damage, so unaffected by Arm pen

Assuming no stacks:
<Base formula * SotP * Glyph * Art of War>
(1 + 0.22 * 1015 + 0.14 * 4072) * 1.15 * 1.10 * 1.10 = 1104
with a 49.88% chance to crit for 2208.
(1104 * 50.12 + 2208 * 49.88) / 100 = average hit of 1654

With an 8 second CD, the dps becomes 1654 / 8 = 207 dps

Assuming full stacks, you get 50% boost to the judgment itself, plus a proc of 38% of weapon damage.
Base weapon dps = 212.3 dps
4072 AP = 290.8 dps
Total dps = 503.1
Total damage = 1760

<Base formula * SotP + Glyph * Art of War * 5-stack bonus + seal proc>
(1 + 0.22 * 1015 + 0.14 * 4072) * 1.15 * 1.10 * 1.10 * 1.50 + 0.38 * 1760 = 2326
with a 49.88% chance to crit for 4652.
(2326 * 50.12 + 4652 * 49.88) / 100 = average hit of 3486

With an 8 second CD, the dps becomes 3486 / 8 = 436 dps

Crusader Strike:

75% of weapon damage
Weapon damage = base weapon damage + AP weapon damage.
14 AP = weapon dps
Affected by Arm Pen, melee hit, and expertise

Base weapon dps = 212.3 dps
4072 AP = 290.8 dps
Total dps = 503.1
Total damage = 1760
75% = 1320
Now with 20 expertise, the boss has a 1.5% chance of dodging. So the average hit will statistically decrease by the same amount.
Average hit after dodge = 1300, while it crits for 2600
Making the overall average (1300 * 68.12 + 2600 * 31.88) / 100 = 1714
Sanctity of Battle increases CS damage by 15% and AoW increases it by 10%: 1714 * 1.15 * 1.10 = 2168

Now, because CS is physical damage it is effected by the boss's armor (10,643), which gives them 39.01% DR. 14% ArmPen reduces this number to 36.03%. (All calculations can be found here, courtesy of Quest)
Thus, CS will only be hitting for 63.97% damage:
2168 * 0.6397 = 1386

With it's 4 second CD, its dps becomes 1386 / 4 = 346 dps at no stacks.

Adding the 5-stack seal proc of 38% weapon damage we get:
1386 + 0.38 * 1760 = 2054 and 2054 / 4 = 513 dps at full seal stack.

Divine Storm:

110% weapon damage on up to 4 targets
Affected by ArmPen, expertise, and melee hit

Base weapon dps = 212.3 dps
4072 AP = 290.8 dps
Total dps = 503.1
Total damage = 1760
110% = 1936
Now with 20 expertise, the boss has a 1.5% chance of dodging. So the average hit will statistically decrease by the same amount.
Average hit after dodge = 1906, while it crits for 3812
Making the overall average (1906 * 68.12 + 3812 * 31.88) / 100 = 2513
Art of War increases damage by 10%: 2513 * 1.10 = 2764

Now, just like CS, because DS is physical damage it is effected by the boss's armor (10,643), which gives them 39.01% DR. 14% ArmPen reduces this number to 36.03%. (All calculations can be found here, courtesy of Quest)
Thus, DS will only be hitting for 63.97% damage:
2764 * 0.6397 = 1768

With a 10 second CD, its dps becomes 1768 / 10 = 177 dps single target with no seal stacks

Adding the 5-stack seal proc of 38% weapon damage we get:
1768 + 0.38 * 1760 = 2436 and 2436 / 10 = 243 dps single target at full seal stack.

~~These numbers increase to {354 and 486}, {531 and 729}, and {708 and 972} at 2,3, and 4 mob fights respectively~~ (Will include SoC calculations for 2+ mobs instead once I get a chance)

Hammer of Wrath:

Only available when the mob is <20%
Holy damage
to damage

Consecration:

Exorcism:

Conclusion

NOTE: I have not taken into account any talents that increase damage for all attacks because that has no bearing on the outcome.

Postado por Hyperspacerebel

Reserved.

Postado por Hyperspacerebel

Forgot to figure in an extra 33% to a full stacked judgment. Fixed now.

Postado por hatman555

I like it, Use some more Bold or Underline, maybe on the abilities, that way they won't fade into the explinations and people can quickly find the one they are looking for.

Also, I'm very new to ret, I'm more of a life long Prot guy, but I read that the Glyph of Consecration is useful for the cooldown timing in the rotation. a 10 second cooldown messes better with the 4,6,and 8 second CD's of other abilities. I think it saves a pretty decent bit of mana too.

Anyways just giving you a heads up on that for when you do the Consecration write up.

Cheers,
Hat

Postado por Hyperspacerebel

I like it, Use some more Bold or Underline, maybe on the abilities, that way they won't fade into the explinations and people can quickly find the one they are looking for.
When I do math I tend to be very chaotic...you should see the pieces of scrap paper I've been using for this. I'll get that all sqaured away once I get everything down.

Also, I'm very new to ret, I'm more of a life long Prot guy, but I read that the Glyph of Consecration is useful for the cooldown timing in the rotation. a 10 second cooldown messes better with the 4,6,and 8 second CD's of other abilities. I think it saves a pretty decent bit of mana too.
While that's true, that has no bearing on what I'm doing because whether you have the glyph or not, Cons will still do the same dps.

Postado por Quest

Wowhead needs to implement the ability to put small images into posts. With matlab one could transform these formula into visual stimulation.

For posterity sake Judgment cannot be parried either.

EDIT: Also if you're including SotP SOV is ~36.5% not 33% to a full stacked ~~judgment~~ swing.

Postado por Hyperspacerebel

Umm I've run into a snag...I know how to do ArmPen and all, but how much armor do bosses have?

Postado por Quest

I believe its 10,643.

Also, ArP was nerfed this patch.

Postado por Hyperspacerebel

EDIT: Also if you're including SotP SOV is ~36.5% not 33% to a full stacked judgment.

Is that in addition to the 1.15 I'm already multiplying into it? I wouldn't think so, but I could be wrong.

Assuming no stacks: (1 + 0.22 * 1015 + 0.14 * 4072) * 1.15 = 913 with a 49.88% chance to crit for 1826.
(913 * 50.12 + 1826 * 49.88) / 100 = average hit of 1368

With an 8 second CD, the dps becomes 1368/8 = 171 dps

Assuming full stacks: (1 + 0.22 * 1015 + 0.14 * 4072) * 1.15 * 1.50 * 1.33 = 1822.5 with a 49.88% chance to crit for 3645.
(1822.5 * 50.12 + 3645 * 49.88) / 100 = average hit of 2731.5

With an 8 second CD, the dps becomes 2731.5/8 = 341 dps

Postado por Hyperspacerebel

I believe its 10,643.

Also, ArP was nerfed this patch.

ugh, I forgot about that...I think I'm just going to leave ArmPen aside for the moment. It doesn't really change anything anyways.

Postado por Quest

I believe its 10,643.

Also, ArP was nerfed this patch.

ugh, I forgot about that...I think I'm just going to leave ArmPen aside for the moment. It doesn't really change anything anyways.

Just wait till you get to CS/DS/Melee! =D =D =D

Postado por hatman555

Also, I'm very new to ret, I'm more of a life long Prot guy, but I read that the Glyph of Consecration is useful for the cooldown timing in the rotation. a 10 second cooldown messes better with the 4,6,and 8 second CD's of other abilities. I think it saves a pretty decent bit of mana too.
While that's true, that has no bearing on what I'm doing because whether you have the glyph or not, Cons will still do the same dps.

Yes, the Raw DPS will not change, but the DPS of the "faceroll rotation" will definatly change on the whole.

I found where I read about this too.
Elitist Jerks 3.2 Ret guild

In the Recommended Major PvE Glyphs section they say
"
This is a PvE glyph, it saves a ton of mana and some GCD clashes over the course of a fight (worth 108mp5). With our GCD as locked as it is this is also a mandatory pve glyph."

If you are doing testing for the DPS of the full rotation, it would be interesting to see how much DPS can be gain simply by freeing up the GCD a bit.

Cheers,
Hat

Postado por Quest

Dont forget boss resist reduction, talents like crusade and party/raid buffs!

JoV

Postado por Hyperspacerebel

Dont forget boss resist reduction, talents like crusade and party/raid buffs!

I thought the resist was only a problem with consecration?

And crusade affects all abilities equally so there is no need to factor it in. I'm not manually mimicing RAWR here, just determining which abilities give more dps and should be prioritized.

Party buffs just add 1000 more variables, making it impractical to use them to determine FCFS.

Postado por Hyperspacerebel

I did forget the judgment glyph, and will fix that.

Postado por Quest

Postado por Hyperspacerebel

Party buffs just add 1000 more variables, making it impractical to use them to determine FCFS.

Its not as difficult as it seems, they are mostly just simple additions to sp/ap/str or whole modifiers.

But it'd only make sense to include buffs if I demonstrate every single combination, which isn't the point. If someone wants actual numbers, they need to use a spreadsheet or use RAWR.

Regardless, the buffs won't affect the abilities to the extent of making them switch order.

Postado por Squishalot

Judgement shouldn't proc 33%? Not on SoV, anyway.

In any event, it wouldn't be 33% of the Judgement damage, it'd be 33% melee swing. So you'd have your judgement formula, sans (* 1.33), + 0.365 * melee damage.

Looking nice though! I'll link it up when you're done :)

Edit:
If you are doing testing for the DPS of the full rotation, it would be interesting to see how much DPS can be gain simply by freeing up the GCD a bit.

The purpose isn't to test the DPS of the full rotation, we've got spreadsheets and Rawr for that. I believe that the motivation for this thread is to link with the "Common DPS Issues" thread that I'm putting together as a grand theorycrafting summary of why we do what we do.

Postado por Hyperspacerebel

Judgement shouldn't proc 33%? Not on SoV, anyway.

In any event, it wouldn't be 33% of the Judgement damage, it'd be 33% melee swing. So you'd have your judgement formula, sans (* 1.33), + 0.365 * melee damage.

I was under the impression that 33% affected all your attacks. I'll log on and run a few tests.

And even if the 33% only affected white damage, why would you include a white hit in the judgment formula?

Postado por Squishalot

No, the proc is for 33% melee damage. So if Judgement procs SoV, then the proc damage will be 0.33 * melee damage, rather than 33% of Judgement damage.

Understanding FCFS - A Ret's Guide to Face Rolling

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