Prot DPS/PVP - Protribution Guide - Updated 3.3!

Postado por 65116

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Postado por Squishalot

None of us have claimed that it's better than Ret DPS, which you'd know if you'd actually read any of the replies on this page alone. Unsubstantiated claim no. 4, also proven false.

All of the 'proof' suggests that Str scales better with Prot than it does with Ret. By definition, this means that once your gear is high enough, Prot will eventually become better than Ret.

Seriously. We're open to evidence if you can demonstrate, with numbers and logic, why you think it doesn't work. Unless you're going to be constructive, GTFO.

Postado por 65116

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Postado por svirve

Preliminary test results

Ret: 411 seconds in combat ~3000 DPS, wings used in the middle.
Notes: Mana was no issue at all, was following the 3.1 FCFS rotation since the PTR thread on EJ suggested it would still be superior. DPS was low at the beginning, around ~2000 but slowly increased to 3000 were it seemed to stop. No HoW. Towards the end i also started prioritizing exo above cons.
Buffs: BoM (imp), SoV.
Spec & Glyphs

Protri(1): 63 seconds in combat, ~2300 DPS, no wings.
Notes: Mana is a real pain in the ass when you're alone. Tried doing a 969 rotation but didn't work out so well since my bars were pretty messed up. Going to copy quests macro for the next try.
Buffs: BoM, SoV.
Glyphs and spec

Protri(2): 71 seconds in combat, ~2300 DPS, wings after 20 sec.
Notes: Mana once again a real issue when you're alone, going to see if i can get into a raid for some testing. Haste also slightly screws up the rotation, sometimes i have to sit and wait for as much as .5 seconds for an ability to come off cooldown. This also makes the subbing harder since judgements go off more than every 9 seconds so AS and exo doesnt time the rotation properly.
Buffs: BoM, SoV
Glyphs and Spec

Protri(3): 96 seconds in combat, ~2600 DPS, wings after 20 sec.
Notes: Mana is the big issue here, the longer i can stay fighting the higher the DPS goes.
Buffs: BoM, SoV
Glyphs and Spec

Overall notes: I was using the same heroic target dummy for all the tests, in thunderbluff. Which is an isolated one so there was no AoE damage. The only difference gear wise is switching the two-hander for a 1h+board. I will try and do a raid later on to see how it works in a raid enviroment compared to an isolated one.

This is about 10 minutes worth of testing so as i said it's very preliminar.

Postado por svirve

That's what i tried to explain to you, at lower gear levels you will do more DPS with a 2hander but protribution will catch up and most probably pass ret on DPS in higher gear levels.

None of us have claimed that it's better than Ret DPS, which you'd know if you'd actually read any of the replies on this page alone. Unsubstantiated claim no. 4, also proven false.

All of the 'proof' suggests that Str scales better with Prot than it does with Ret. By definition, this means that once your gear is high enough, Prot will eventually become better than Ret.

lol?

Did you actually read the words you put in bold?
I said that it will catch up, and most , PROBABLY (should i spell that out for you? P-R-O-B-A-B-L-Y it's in the dictionary look it up will you?) pass ret.

Squishy said no one claimed it is. And neither did we i said that it most P-R-O-B-A-B-L-Y (you know that hard word again) will pass, that's not saying it's better. We even several times admitted that ret is better. But i guess you're not able to comprehend english as a written language instead of it being chewed up and spat at the screen for you.

Squishy showed you the math as to why prot scales better than ret, munkles provided you with the buffs that are better for prot than ret. What are you going to come up with next? DKs are more OP than paladins so that's why protribution sucks?

Postado por 65116

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Postado por svirve

Are you familiar with the word scaling? So far you've shown no understanding of the word so i'm inclined to ask.
And you mentioned optimizing specs.
The following is just an example and i'm guessing you wont comprehend that but it's actually quite funny to see how good you are at skipping sentences and sometimes entire paragraphs so that you can read what you want to read. It also has with scaling to do so even more reason for me to believe that you wont understand.
If a retribution spec would do more damage on a heroic gear level but a protribution spec would do more damage on a raid gear level. Would you still roll retribution cause it does more DPS, though only in heroic gear but it does do more DPS.

Yes i did the test myself on a test dummy. Once i got a proper prot rotation ret won by 400 DPS which i cant disagree is a marginably big difference.

But as we've said multiple times prot might (another hard word) be better during a raid were the mana regeneration is alot bigger.
By the way if this is such a gimp spec and we're all faillol why are you still here arguing? You said you weren't flexing your ego or such. Or could it be that you're just such a good samaritan that you wish to save us all from 'wasting' time on such a worthless gimped spec?

Edit: So far you've contradicted yourself pretty much every second post. Please show me were i've contradicted myself without admitting that i phrased the sentence wrong.

Postado por 65116

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Postado por toastmaster7727

This theory actually makes a pretty good point in a PvP point of view. More health and armor, about the same damage done (from my experience), and yum yums of stun and silence mechanics.

In terms of PvE though, I am starting to doubt its abilities. I've used it in two different single target fights and did almost so little damage, my raid leader made me switch back to ret :(. The only way I see this spec working in a fight would be if there was a lot of AoEs needed during the encounter. I've seen prot tanks with their normal gear/spec hit #2 and #3 on the dmg meters just from tanking the adds during an Emalon fight. Another useful fight I can remember is the arena adds during the Thorim encounter. If anyone else remembers any AoE intensive fights, please post! :D

Postado por 101561

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Postado por 287871

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Postado por Squishalot

"will eventually" implies that it's better.
If one dps passes another one it IS better, how often can you contradict yourself in 1 post.

If you play lotteries for long enough, you "will eventually" win. It doesn't mean that you "will" win. In the same way, Prot 'will eventually' be better than Ret, but it isn't necessarily better than Ret. Besides, we're 100% justified in stating that Prot, at an insane gear level, will be better than Ret. You haven't demonstrated anything.

Certainly, in terms of survivability, it IS better than Ret, no questions asked.

svirve - are you using your personal DPS gear, or the sample gear provided on 'fresh' 80s?

Postado por 228908

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Postado por 287871

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Postado por svirve

Ok, I've been promised a spot for Naxx25 and VoA25 as Protribution today (monday), I need some info on how I get you the "raw data" you've been asking for.

I don't use any addons what so ever but I'll have no problem getting which ever one you'll need me to have to do it.

Two ways of doing this.
Either get recount and do it manually.
Or the best and easiest way, follow the instructions here.

svirve - are you using your personal DPS gear, or the sample gear provided on 'fresh' 80s?
Using a premade 80 char, the stats are skewed for us thus the larger gap in DPS than what would be expected.
Here are some of the stats:
28,59% crit
4374 AP
291 hit
14 expertise
200 haste
1654 str
1761 stam
1349 block
167 ArP
528 SP
Due to the lack of gear (only 1 pvp and pve gear set per spec) it's hard to switch anything around. But i'll try and switch some of the prot pieces if they have more str and perhaps block and trade it away for less valuable stats like haste.

Postado por 287871

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Postado por 436197

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Postado por 89501

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Postado por svirve

Munkles is very right. When testing on the PTR i did some shorter tests after the preliminary ones i documented, and when using the 1.6 speed tanking sword (which had 6.5 DPS more) i could with some RNG love get up to 2600 DPS on a dummy. But when switching to the 2.6 speed PvP sword they also give you, i would have a way easier time to up my DPS and even went as high as 2900 at one point.

Postado por 89501

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Prot DPS/PVP - Protribution Guide - Updated 3.3!

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