Elemental Weapons for Resto?

Publicado por netrbrunet

Reading through a lot of Resto info and builds. One thing that I'm surprised at is how few builds have Elemental Weapons specced.
Assuming (and I think its a safe one) that you have dual Earthliving Weapon at +150 heal bonus each, then the talent gives you 90 +heal power (which is about 171 +heals). This seems pretty solid for 3 points into a talent.

If I compare that to a popular Improved Shields:
With +2000 heal power (3800 +heals) and a 286% coefficeient, you get about 2148 (337+((3800*2.86)/6)) total heal per charge of Earth Shield. (correct these numbers if they are far off).
IS gives you 15% on that so you get about +322 healing.
(I acknowledged that this goes higher as your + heal power rises (scales better), and also that IS gives you some other bonuses.)
However, the healing bonus from Elemental Weapons (+171 heal) applies to ALL heals (including Earth Shield and all 3/4 jumps of Chain Lightning).

I guess I'm surprised at the regular speccing of IS over Elemental Weapons. Is mana such a huge problem that you need to also spend 3 points in Improved Water Shields and get the 15% extra water globe mana?
I suppose I would take the 6 points from IS and IWS, spend 3 in Elemental Weapons and 3 somewhere else (as there are so many tasty talents for Resto).

Anyways, that's enough rambling for one day... any comments?

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Publicado por 63926

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Publicado por netrbrunet

so DW would give you +90 (who does this anyway?).
I guess I assumed dual wielding because that's what I've been doing at this point. Be a enhancement spec for 90% of the time, I simply flip most of my gear, but never really changed my weapons (hence dual wielding enhancement axes and simply popping Earthliving on both, but having most other gear swapped out).
I suppose I could still dual wield (main-hand + off-hand weapon), but I take it from your comment that a two-hander is generally better (more available?) for a resto shaman?

Publicado por 166028

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Publicado por skribs

The DW spec is interesting, but you get a lot of filler talents in Enhance in order to achieve it. Imp Shields not only buffs mana regen, but also buffs Earth Shield - an effect which should be on the MT at all times.

As has been said, though, Elemental Weapons is not +171 heal, it buffs the healing on the buff. So when you talent it, you get 15 healing per point, for 45 total.

Part of the reason mana isn't an issue is because of talents that give so much mana back. If you were to skip those talents, you'd miss out on quite a bit of mana return, which might end up hurting in the long run.

Publicado por netrbrunet

Ok, thats some great feedback folks. Thanks!

Resto Shaman use 1H caster weapons and shields.

Dualwield resto is an experimental raidhealing build designed SOLELY around chainheal that may or may not be better at raidhealing than a traditional resto build but is definitely worse at general-purpose healing.

So you would recommend a shield over an off-hand.
I can see the benefit in case you draw agro - take less damage before the tank pulls it back, and maybe even prevent some casting pushback (not sure with the new pushback mechanics though). However, are the stats usually a better option too? As my main is a warlock, I know lots of off-hands, but have never really looked at caster shields. /goes_to_do_wowhead_search

As has been said, though, Elemental Weapons is not +171 heal, it buffs the healing on the buff. So when you talent it, you get 15 healing per point, for 45 total.
I was getting the 171 by assuming dual wield (+45 per hand = 90), and then multiplying the heal spell power by 1.9 (the approximate coefficient of spell power to actual +heal value). 90*1.9 = 171.
I think you may be saying that Earthliving Weapon is +150 actual heal per weapon and not +150 healing spell power. The tool tip is not very precises for it. If it is indeed only +150 actual heals, then I can definitely see how Elemental Weapons comes up short - it's only half as good as I originally thought.

Publicado por cms2k

- Healing Way vs. Elemental Weapons

Earthliving Weapon (Rank 6) (ELW) 6% of base mana Instant cast Requires Melee Weapon

Imbue the Shaman's weapon with earthen life. Increases healing done by 150 and each heal has a 20% chance to proc Earthliving on the target, healing an additional 652 over 12 sec. Lasts 30 minutes.

Healing Wave (Rank 14) (HW) 25% of Base Mana 40 yd range 3 sec cast Heals a friendly target for 3034 to 3466. (3250 Average)

Lesser Healing Wave (Rank 9) (LHW) 15% of Base Mana 40 yd range 1.5 sec cast Heals a friendly target for 1606 to 1834. (1720 Average)

Using Talent - Elemental Weapons 3/3 (Tal-EW) which will increase the bonus heal of Earthliving Weapon (which procs a maximum of 1 in 5 heals) by 30% which is 196 healing in addition to 652 with a total of 848 over 12 seconds. Question, does it also increase the 150 by 30% which is 45 brining the total healing does on the proc by 195 + 848 = 1043 which is a bonus of 241.

Using Talent - Healing Way 3/3 (Tal-HW) will increase your next healing spell by the following (3.0.8 no longer stacks)

Tal-HW Tal-EW Hot Shareable
Spell Average @18% 30% Proc? Duration Buff Note
HW 3250 585 100% 15 Yes
LHW 1720 310 100% 15 Yes
ELW 652 150 + 652 = 802 20% 12 No Procs anyway on its own
ELW+EW 848 +241 +45 +195 = +241 20% 12 No with Elemental Weapons

* Enhancement-EW: So, is 241 over 12 seconds in a 1 out of 5 chance worth it for 3/3 in Elemental Weapons in the Enhancement tree?
* Restoration-HW: 585 HW vs. 241 LHW over 15 seconds in a 19 in 20 chance worth it for Healing Way in the Resto tree? Generally, yes.

Wowwiki.com note-Elemental Weapons: Restoration and Elemental shamans benefit significantly less from this talent, as the bonuses for Earthliving Weapon and Flametongue Weapon only apply to the flat bonuses granted by those imbues, and thus do not offer the bonus to scaling that is what make the talent so powerful for Enhancement.

Wowwiki.com note-Healing Way: The effect lasts 15 seconds. Each Healing Wave that procs the effect will refresh the duration of the whole stack. Healing Way does not affect any other healing spells, but every shaman casting Healing Wave on that target will benefit from the effect even if they do not have the talent themselves. If two shamans who both have the talent heal the same target, they will 'share' a single stack, and either player can refresh or add to a stack started by the other

Publicado por 66520

Using Talent - Elemental Weapons 3/3 (Tal-EW) which will increase the bonus heal of Earthliving Weapon (which procs a maximum of 1 in 5 heals) by 30% which is 196 healing in addition to 652 with a total of 848 over 12 seconds. Question, does it also increase the 150 by 30% which is 45 brining the total healing does on the proc by 195 + 848 = 1043 which is a bonus of 241.

Using Talent - Healing Way 3/3 (Tal-HW) will increase your next healing spell by the following (3.0.8 no longer stacks)

Neither of these talents work like that.

Publicado por netrbrunet

I was getting the 171 by assuming dual wield (+45 per hand = 90), and then multiplying the heal spell power by 1.9 (the approximate coefficient of spell power to actual +heal value). 90*1.9 = 171.
I think you may be saying that Earthliving Weapon is +150 actual heal per weapon and not +150 healing spell power. The tool tip is not very precises for it. If it is indeed only +150 actual heals, then I can definitely see how Elemental Weapons comes up short - it's only half as good as I originally thought.

After reading up on some stuff on elitistjerks, it looks to me like Earthliving is +150 healing spell power per application. So 150*1.88 = 282 heal per Earthliving. With Elemental Weapons adding 30%, that mean the talent is worth 282*0.3=84.6 actual healing per weapon. (Two weapons = 169 actual +healing).

So my initial thoughts on dual wield Earthliving are correct (with rounding errors). However, other factors of what it costs to dual wield are still a concern.

Publicado por Jaspah

So you would recommend a shield over an off-hand.
I can see the benefit in case you draw agro - take less damage before the tank pulls it back, and maybe even prevent some casting pushback (not sure with the new pushback mechanics though). However, are the stats usually a better option too? As my main is a warlock, I know lots of off-hands, but have never really looked at caster shields. /goes_to_do_wowhead_search

The fact that Resto Shamans can use shields is one of the reasons we're very good at what we do. We are a lot less squishey than a Priest or Druid and we have some of the best raid healing capabilities in the game. In encounters like Sartharian w/ 3 drakes, I'm usually taking damage from adds (significantly less damage than what our priest takes) from healing the drake tank... 10k chain heal crits combined with healing the melee next to him is awesome.

Show me an off-hand that's better than Shield of Assimilation with +25 intellect enchanted on it. :P

Publicado por 243207

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Publicado por Mesoforte

I spec'd into Elemental Weapons because I wanted to see what the fuss was all about. Healing way may be better, but on my last run I threw out a grand total of 2 Healing Wave's, so there is no benefit for me there, those last 3 points are truly throwaway points for me, so I toss them around based on what I want to try out or what would benefit the raid. My opinion on the Elemental Weapons talent, I could live with it or without it.

The boost from elemental weapons isn't noticeable. At highest scaling (ie the first jump of chain heal) it grants an extra 60 hp. It scales worse than that on the other jumps and on all your other spells. -_-

Elemental Weapons for Resto?

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