This site makes extensive use of JavaScript.
Please enable JavaScript in your browser.
Classic Theme
Thottbot Theme
General Lore Discussions
Post Reply
Return to board index
Post by
Adamsm
Told you it wouldn't be a good one; it's why I skipped buying it. They need to stop this; stop with the big events happening in the books and make them happen in game for us to experience.
As for the revelation...hello Wrathgate 2.0 as the Forsaken fights itself yet again. Man this is the re-hash expac ain't it?
Post by
Rankkor
As a fan of the horde, and sylvanas and the forsaken. I despise it. It wasn't before the storm, it was a anduin book. Making the forsaken as evil as can be to make him the better.
That's not what I saw. If anything, this book helped redeem the forsaken by painting them in a favorable light, and showing that there's people among them that are capable of kindness, empathy, honor, and nobility. For the first time in............. ever, really. Almost any forsaken depicted before this book was almost universally a soulless wretch. Too bad all of this was done at the expense of Sylvanas.
Post by
oneforthemoney
As a fan of the horde, and sylvanas and the forsaken. I despise it. It wasn't before the storm, it was a anduin book. Making the forsaken as evil as can be to make him the better.
That's not what I saw. If anything, this book helped redeem the forsaken by painting them in a favorable light, and showing that there's people among them that are capable of kindness, empathy, honor, and nobility. For the first time in............. ever, really. Almost any forsaken depicted before this book was almost universally a soulless wretch. Too bad all of this was done at the expense of Sylvanas.
I think Blizz has been really struggling with just what to do with Sylvanas. Ever since Arthas died she lost basically the only thing that made her sympathetic, which was her aim for revenge. Even her love for her people has always been... awkward. With Arthas gone, there's no one she can compare favorably against. No monster she can fight that she can contrast with properly. Add to that is her extreme popularity. With Thrall hobo Jesus, she is literally the only face of the Horde, and maybe the game people would recognize easily. That's why she was made Warchief, and not a half baked prophecy bull%^&* from Vol'Jin's poison inspired hallucinations. Besides, I think Illidin showed how much weight prophecy should hold in WoW verse.
I don't think Blizz will kill Sylvanas at end of expac. I suspect instead she'll either be redeemed somehow, or set out on her own, maybe speak to Bolvar to try and come to grips with what she is. She's always been sort of the example of how any means for victory inevitably backfire. Like Varimathas, the plague, the valks, and so on.
Ironically, Blizz could have avoided the whole thing easily and made her far more sympathetic by shifting a bit of the narrative onto her in Wrath. Have her present when Arthas died. I think Menethil's final words to his son could have really resonated with her, not to mention give her some real closure to the whole Lich King thing. But here we are, so I guess we'll have to deal with what we have.
Post by
morginar
However it also showed the state they lived in was unbelievably totalitarian.
Going against many a narrative of the forsaken. Free will is the cornerstone of the forsaken, Lordaeron belongs to the forsaken. Whenever they deal with something from their past or legacy. Be it a grudge. Or family.
Edit: I agree money. The big problem with wrath. And why I won't say it's a good expac lorewise. It's that it's centered around humans, in a dk vs pala battle. Tiron vs Arthas was the center. Sylvanas and Ner'zhul both where largely ignored. (I know she shows up, but it's far to minor for such important part of the narrative)
Post by
Rankkor
As a fan of the horde, and sylvanas and the forsaken. I despise it. It wasn't before the storm, it was a anduin book. Making the forsaken as evil as can be to make him the better.
That's not what I saw. If anything, this book helped redeem the forsaken by painting them in a favorable light, and showing that there's people among them that are capable of kindness, empathy, honor, and nobility. For the first time in............. ever, really. Almost any forsaken depicted before this book was almost universally a soulless wretch. Too bad all of this was done at the expense of Sylvanas.
I think Blizz has been really struggling with just what to do with Sylvanas. Ever since Arthas died she lost basically the only thing that made her sympathetic, which was her aim for revenge. Even her love for her people has always been... awkward.
Even if it was awkward, it was still one of her very few redeeming qualities. That and her total hatred of mindless undead. Both of these have been eliminated though, with her happily turning enemies AND friends into mindless skeletons, and now her happily murdering her own subjects for even contemplating a better life without her.
Besides, I think Illidin showed how much weight prophecy should hold in WoW verse.
Don't forget Jaina. Made into the leader of the Kirin Tor, exclusively because of a prophecy. For all the good that did.
I don't think Blizz will kill Sylvanas at end of expac. I suspect instead she'll either be redeemed somehow, or set out on her own, maybe speak to Bolvar to try and come to grips with what she is. She's always been sort of the example of how any means for victory inevitably backfire. Like Varimathas, the plague, the valks, and so on.
Even if she doesn't die (Which I still doubt very much), its pretty clear she will no longer be either warchief, nor queen of the forsaken. Which means, just like Thrall, she's gonna be out of the horde narrative going forward, so she may as well be dead.
However it also showed the state they lived in was unbelievably totalitarian.
And that's their government's fault, not the people's fault. Which brings us back to: Sylvanas = bad. Forsaken = Not necessarily bad.
Whereas before, both them and her were depicted equally bad. So the book served to humanize them a great deal.
Going against many a narrative of the forsaken. Free will is the cornerstone of the forsaken, Lordaeron belongs to the forsaken. Whenever they deal with something from their past or legacy. Be it a grudge. Or family.
Free will, AND obedience to sylvanas. Come on, their main greeting is "Dark Lady watch over you". The cult of personality around her has been a cornerstone of the forsaken since vanilla. So they have free will, but also a totalitarian government.(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##Rankkor##DELIM##
Post by
morginar
Actually, the first ever quests a forsaken gets is about you are free to serve her or not. You are allowed to run about as Voss does and not even join the forsaken.
I take Dark lady watch over you. As in she is a hero that covers your back because they are forsaken. Unlike garroshs "hellscreams eyes upon you."
Post by
Rankkor
Actually, the first ever quests a forsaken gets is about you are free to serve her or not. You are allowed to run about as Voss does and not even join the forsaken.
Yes, you are free to join, or refuse, and if you refuse, you're allowed to walk away and do whatever you want. But if you do accept to join and serve, that's it, you're in it for life, and can no longer walk away, or disobey.
Free will, but a totalitarian government. That has always been the case with the forsaken.
I take Dark lady watch over you. As in she is a hero that covers your back because they are forsaken. Unlike garroshs "hellscreams eyes upon you."
To be fair, Garrosh managed to make any phrase sound like a thinly veiled threat. Even the horde's slogan "Victory or Death" somehow turned from being interpreted as "We will succeed, or die trying" when said by Thrall or Saurfang, to "Succeed, or I will KILL you" when said by garrosh.(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##Rankkor##DELIM##
Post by
oneforthemoney
Don't forget Jaina. Made into the leader of the Kirin Tor, exclusively because of a prophecy. For all the good that did.
Yeah. Blizz doesn't really get what a prophecy is. It's like they heard about the Sword in the Stone, dumbed that down, and have just been repeating it ad hoc. Not helped is Velen's apparent inability to predict any god damn thing.
Even if she doesn't die (Which I still doubt very much), its pretty clear she will no longer be either warchief, nor queen of the forsaken. Which means, just like Thrall, she's gonna be out of the horde narrative going forward, so she may as well be dead.
Oh yeah. That's a given. However, it might be nice to have her as a more independent character. She could do far more if she wasn't shackled to the Forsaken as their Queen, least of all the Horde's warchief. Considering that every truly evil act she does is for her people, albeit arriving there is twisted up like a pretzel in her mind, having her independent might mellow her out. Kind of like a reverse Thrall, who's leadership was a huge positive in his character, while Sylvanas's post wrath was mostly negative.
Most of her issues, I think, stem from the fact the Forsaken are all she has. Her family hates her for obvious reasons. Her allies tolerate her at best, loathe her at worst. As the world grows more peaceful she can't adapt. Everything she built is falling apart around her. She's almost Shakesperean in her tragedy. She led the Forsaken through their darkest time, but she's uniquely useless without an outward menace. She clutches at any emergency she can because it's a sign her people still need her. She's still a horrible person, but I do understand why she is.
Post by
Adamsm
And you all know that when we do kill her, it's going to be as some puppet of the Old God N'Zoth, who will be revealed to have done everything with the Scourge, no matter how implausible that would be...because again, it's time for the rehash expac which will lead into the Scourge 2.0 Bolvar gets up and tries to kill the world, even though he wouldn't have the forces to do so, any more then Arthas did.
Post by
Stabhorn
So, I've seen conflicting reports.
I've heard that G'Huun is just a monstrosity created from Old God juice, but also that he is literally an Old God. What do you guys think? Is he really an Old God? What does that mean for them, in that case, since G'Huun was literally created by the Titans, and not the Void Lords.
Post by
Adamsm
Says over and over again in It's bio page it's an Old God
, also says It was created from the imprisoned Old Gods, so it's like the Chromatic flight; it is an Old God but not one created by the Void.
Post by
oneforthemoney
Says over and over again in It's bio page it's an Old God
, also says It was created from the imprisoned Old Gods, so it's like the Chromatic flight; it is an Old God but not one created by the Void.
I love the logic behind that one.
Blizz: Crap! We're running low on old gods. What do we do?
Storyboarder: What about... chinese knock off old gods?
Blizz: I love it!
It's like, why use Hakkar, the thing on the loose, literally named as a blood god, for the blood trolls, when we can use an old god that's not really an old god, and is completely irrelevent to the lore until right this moment.
Post by
Adamsm
It's also not the first time we've seen something like that...Sha and the Faceless ones anyone? But yeah, rehash the expac Battle is.
Post by
oneforthemoney
The sha at least had the dignity to be connected to a dead old god whose death mattered to the lore. And had a part to play in the broader theme of the expac. This is just lazy. Not condemning it, yet. The part featuring it could be good. Just pointing out how easy it would be to go with something more recognized.
Post by
Adamsm
It's a boss in a dungeon; so unless it's outside of it, a la the Nightmare, there isn't any point in putting in this much to it.
Post by
Rankkor
Says over and over again in It's bio page it's an Old God
, also says It was created from the imprisoned Old Gods, so it's like the Chromatic flight; it is an Old God but not one created by the Void.
I love the logic behind that one.
Blizz: Crap! We're running low on old gods. What do we do?
Storyboarder: What about... chinese knock off old gods?
Blizz: I love it!
It's like, why use Hakkar, the thing on the loose, literally named as a blood god, for the blood trolls, when we can use an old god that's not really an old god, and is completely irrelevent to the lore until right this moment.
/FACEPALM.
No kidding. Man, Hakkar would have been AWESOME as the actual deity behind the blood trolls. Talk about wasted potential U_U
Post by
oneforthemoney
Says over and over again in It's bio page it's an Old God
, also says It was created from the imprisoned Old Gods, so it's like the Chromatic flight; it is an Old God but not one created by the Void.
I love the logic behind that one.
Blizz: Crap! We're running low on old gods. What do we do?
Storyboarder: What about... chinese knock off old gods?
Blizz: I love it!
It's like, why use Hakkar, the thing on the loose, literally named as a blood god, for the blood trolls, when we can use an old god that's not really an old god, and is completely irrelevent to the lore until right this moment.
/FACEPALM.
No kidding. Man, Hakkar would have been AWESOME as the actual deity behind the blood trolls. Talk about wasted potential U_U
Especially since this is kind of the last big Troll thing left lore wise. I mean, what's left? Yet another hidden city of trolls? If you weren't going to use Hakkar now, when were you? And it matches so perfectly too. Zul's whole thing is bring the trolls back to prominence. That was Hakkar's deal with his priests, until the price got too steep and he was smacked down.
Post by
Adamsm
There will always be a Troll King...and somehow, even though there is no body, Vol'jin is gonna be the next big Bad.
Post by
355559
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
So I just realized something that has some pretty disturbing implications.
You remember those pvp achievements that asked you to kill the different faction leaders to obtain the black bear mount? yeah, the one for Tyrande has been converted into a Feat of Strength.
Think about that for a second.
I was imagining that this whole burning of darnassus, and the occupation of the undercity were temporary stuff. Just something that would last during BfA, and then at the end we retake the undercity, and rebuild/heal darnassus. But no, Tyrande's achievement is becoming a FoS. Which means this is not some temporary thing. Darnassus is gone gone. Its never coming back.
But even more disturbing, is the equivalent on the horde side. One would imagine that if Tyrande's achievement is now a FoS, logic dictates that the related achievement with Sylvanas in the Undercity would meet the same fate. But no, her achievement is still in the game. Instead, the horde leader achievement that has become a FoS is Saurfang's achievement which does NOT bode well for the character.
Damn....... #$%& is getting real people.
Post Reply
You are not logged in. Please
log in
to post a reply or
register
if you don't already have an account.
