General Lore Discussions

Post by Rankkor

And yes there is a boost; but when I'm leveling I like talking with my guild so the Horde alt would be alone and nothing to take my focus away from the tedium of the grind. I don't know, maybe I'll get into Beta again and I can just do it that way.

I got one word for that:

Communities. They're coming, and they're gonna be awesome.

Cross-server mini-guilds, you can belong to as many as you desire. I'm already planning on making one for horde members of wowhead (sadly, they're not cross-faction, thus someone else will have to make an alliance one) unless someone beats me to it.

Yeah but when they invaded Pandaria, both of the factions fought against them, and you had Silver Covenant forces showing up outside of ZA, and for ZG both groups have presence there in the zone while it's the Steamwheedle who give you the actual quests in the instance in Cata.

Yeah, and in argus there's the blood knights, and a few other horde faces in there. Doesn't change the fact that the story feels entirely like an alliance story.

Post by oneforthemoney

Post by morginar

Just how cross server, as I am EU. :P

Post by Adamsm

Not that cross server.

Post by Rankkor

Cross-server mini-guilds, you can belong to as many as you desire. I'm already planning on making one for horde members of wowhead (sadly, they're not cross-faction, thus someone else will have to make an alliance one) unless someone beats me to it.

Really? Awesome! Give me a ring when you set it up and I'll join.

Will do =)

And if anyone else makes an alliance one, lemme know and I'll gladly join that one too.

And you know what? I just noticed something about BfA that I completely missed the first time. Something really really good. Even if others don't think its such a big deal.

This is the first expansion in over SEVEN YEARS to NOT recycle an old dungeon.

Yeah, this annoying trend began in Cataclysm and its recycling of Deadmines and Shadowfang Keep (later adding Zul'aman and Zul'gurub into the mix), followed by Mists of Pandaria recycling the Scarlet Monastery and Scholomance (Despite there being ZERO reason for doing so, and both of these dungeons not fitting in any way into the narrative or overall story of the expansion whatsoever), followed by Warlords of Draenor recycling Upper Blackrock Spire, and then Legion recycling the Violet Hold, and Kharazan. (Ironically, despite the original Violet Hold not being particularly loved by any, this is the ONLY recycled dungeon NOT replaced by the new version........ while greatly loved classic ones like Zul'gurub are gone forever >_>)

But taking a quick glance at the dungeon list for BfA, not a single one of these dungeons is recycled. None of the older ones is going away to make space for a new one. Good god, I hope to christ they keep this up.

Recycled dungeons piss me off for two reasons.

For one thing, they make content go away. And often it is content I'm rather fond of. This is why I breathed a sigh of relief when I found out that the new Kara wouldn't replace the old one. But several classic dungeons I really loved, like the original Deadmines, and Scarlet Monastery are gone forever, and their replacements just aren't the same. And some dungeons I never got a chance to do (Like the original Naxx) are also gone forever.

For another, starting on Mists, many of these replacements didn't fit into the story at all, often feeling like they were being done, just for the sake of being done. Like they had to tick a checkbox on a list, like the mandatory troll raid, or the mandatory prison-break dungeon, or the mandatory poop-related quest. Seriously, there was no reason whatsoever to replace the scarlet montastery, but they did it anyways >_> not cool.(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##Rankkor##DELIM##

Post by morginar

Not like it's a bad thing if it's relevant to the story of the zone. As some dungeons are quite outdated, and are built oddly by the current style or make no sense to the outside.

It'd be weird to kill the dad of the girl the zone is based on, with a flashback of the dad being dead for years as a motivator.

But who knows, maybe they add some in a patch like zul'again and kara :P In 8.1? (think it's zul'farrak and ahn'qiraji?)

Post by Adamsm

There will be a Heroic revamp, just like the other expacs.

Post by Rankkor

Post by oneforthemoney

There will be a Heroic revamp, just like the other expacs.

Ugh, dude, stop with the negativism and nihilism. You're gonna give yourself an ulcer I tell ya.

If there's not one announced for launch (and we haven't had one post-launch since cataclysm), there's little reason to think there's gonna be another one.

I want to believe that even in the worst case scenario where there is one, they'll go about it the way they did Kara, and simply add a heroic version of a classic dungeon WITHOUT taking the original away.

I think the major reason they did Scarlet Monastary was they wanted to eliminate the whole 'Scarlet Rebel' thing, which got really dumb as you went along. It was a neat imagining, but I do miss the old one. I wore those robes and that hat on my mage for so long...

And anyway, we're really running out of vanilla dungeons to revamp. Cata took care of a ton and we've been bleeding the others since (and I'm still mad about the old troll raids. I wanted those damn mounts!). And they don't bother with any dungeons after expansion, which I do appreciate. I'd be ever so pissed if I never got to kill Illidin.

Post by Rankkor

And anyway, we're really running out of vanilla dungeons to revamp.

True. So many of them have been either revamped or changed up. WoD for example stealth-changed both razorfens and blackfathom deeps.

I think the only ones unchanged (or at least with the least amount of changes) are Maraudon, Blackrock depths, Diremaul, Zul'farrak, Uldaman, and most infuriatingly of all, GNOMEREGAN.

Now THERE is a dungeon I would NOT miss if it was revamped/removed altogether. I HATE that place with a burning rage that I cannot describe in writing without breaking at least 5

But no, it stubbornly remains as one of the least changed dungeons in the whole corking thing >_>

(and I'm still mad about the old troll raids. I wanted those damn mounts!).

No kidding. I miss Zul'gurub the most, but Zul'aman was also fun to do, and Zul'jin is just MILES better than the cheap-ass discount version we got on the revamp.

And they don't bother with any dungeons after expansion, which I do appreciate. I'd be ever so pissed if I never got to kill Illidin.

Odd that, isn't it? whenever they do the mandatory dungeon recycling, its almost always a dungeon from vanilla. The only two expansion dungeons to be revamped were Karazhan, and Violet Hold in legion, and even then, in these two cases, the originals were left untouched, and the revamped versions exist as their own separate dungeons.

Not that I'm complaining mind you. As you said, I'd be very much upset if things like soloing Illidan or the Lich King was taken away. This is really the crux of what I loathe about dungeon recycling. Not only we get to trudge on old territory as if it was new content, but the old content I enjoy doing is gone forever.

Post by oneforthemoney

Odd that, isn't it? whenever they do the mandatory dungeon recycling, its almost always a dungeon from vanilla. The only two expansion dungeons to be revamped were Karazhan, and Violet Hold in legion, and even then, in these two cases, the originals were left untouched, and the revamped versions exist as their own separate dungeons.

I think that's mainly because they're trying to bring the lore in line, and most menaces are Azerothian in nature. We're never going back to Outland or Draenor, or even Northrend or Pandaria. Those place's lore is done with. But they also like to mix up the lower levelling experience for people from 1-60.

I still miss killing Baron Rivendare though. Stratholme was such a lazy revamp. And again, unnecessary.

And yeah. ^&*! Gnomeregan. I doubt it will ever be revamped since the gnome starting zone is now there to some degree.

Zul'jin is just MILES better than the cheap-ass discount version we got on the revamp.

That's the worst bit. I loved Zul'jin! He had such an awesome story and was such a huge part of old warcraft lore. And his design was just badass, yet simple. But I never actually got to kill him. And by the time I could, Cata had wiped him out! Same deal with old Naxx. I really wanted to get the ashbringer and walk into the Scarlet Monastary so bad...

Post by morginar

What was changed is Stratholme?

Post by oneforthemoney

What was changed is Stratholme?

Baron Rivendare was replaced by some guy, the dungeon was split into two halves, and the Scarlet Crusade became undead. Like I said, lazy.

Post by Rankkor

Zul'jin is just MILES better than the cheap-ass discount version we got on the revamp.

That's the worst bit. I loved Zul'jin! He had such an awesome story and was such a huge part of old warcraft lore. And his design was just badass, yet simple. But I never actually got to kill him. And by the time I could, Cata had wiped him out!

I narrowly avoided that.

The minute, the SECOND I saw them announce that ZA was to be recycled in 4.1, I rushed like hell to the original ZA and cleared it with a friend (I was able to solo most bosses, but the fire dude was too much for me, and I asked a healer to keep me alive). Sadly I never got the bear mount, but at least I got the FoS and was able to see the original Zul'jin fight before it was lost forever. The new guy, so generic I can't even be bothered to remember his name, just isn't the same.

Same deal with old Naxx. I really wanted to get the ashbringer and walk into the Scarlet Monastary so bad...

Now this right here, is also one of my biggest regrets. I only began playing on the official servers mere months prior to the launch of WOTLK, so there was no way for me to ever experience the original naxx, get the corrupted ashbringer, and see the special event in the Monastery. I know there's youtube for that, but its just not the same. At all.

One of the few things that MAY make me play on the upcoming vanilla servers is if they actually allow gear from Naxx40 to be added to the collection tab. Unlikely, but if by any chance it happens, that actually could motivate me enough to put some serious effort into that thing (though I shudder at the thought of having to go through the extensive attunement and gearing up process before I can even enter Naxx, let alone have it on farm to get the weapon, which is why this is a pretty huge MAYBE for me)

Post by Adamsm

What was changed is Stratholme?

Baron Rivendare was replaced by some guy, the dungeon was split into two halves, and the Scarlet Crusade became undead. Like I said, lazy.

Well, the Risen made 'sense' considering what we were seeing in the new Plaguelands. The replacement was a 'cousin' of Rivendare who took over the true Baron ascended to Naxx.

Post by morginar

Lazy, though if that was a whole thing, it'd be too big I guess.

Though I like big stuff like kara. And the maze style of lower blackrock spire.

Post by Rankkor

Well, this is a relief. The Nightborne questchain will have those damnable rep gateways lifted when Legion is over.

That's seriously one of the finest stories ever told in wow, but its a royal pain in the rear to do it again, knowing you have to go through that horrible rep grind once again. I'll be sure to do it once more when they lift the rep blocks.

Post by Adamsm

So...since I successfully predicted the return of Onyxia as an undead dragon(completely by accident), think I'll throw out some more for what's coming that we'll learn at Blizzcon.

4. The isle nations around the Maelstrom and Eastern Kingdoms will come into play; we'll see Kul Tiras coming back and learn what has been going on there, as well as seeing Jaina's younger brother(which will end up connecting to the Jaina novel that is due out). Kezen will be larger then what we saw in the goblin starting zone, with more of the Cartels out in force, and possibly giving the goblins of the Horde more expanded lore there. Zandalar will play a big part as well; either with a coup going on against the current king, or we find out just why the King decided to send in forces to help the Amani, Gurubashi and the Darkspear during Cata beyond trying to keep the Trolls from going extinct.

6. And as usual, the Horde and Alliance wars will be pushed up and become more and more involved......even as the rest of the world goes to hell.

Lol, from 2011..but hey look, some of this is Battle for Azeroth.

Post by Rankkor

Nailed everything except for Jaina's brother. He hasn't been mentioned at all in the pre-release stuff. Only her previously unmentioned mom (Who hopefully will be less of a tool than the daughter, but given who she married to, I'm not exactly holding my breath)

Post by Adamsm

Back when I originally posted it, he was from the RPG books; he's since been declared non-canon because apparently Proudmoore would never cheat on his wife. But I'm surprised Jaina mom is alive; figured she would suffer from Disney Princess syndrome and be dead.

General Lore Discussions

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