General Lore Discussions

Post by Avaruz

Finished the Warrior class hall campaign...yeah that was just random at the end. Also, the world you go to? Same one that you do for the DH's.

Yeah, it looks like the same scenario. I began leveling my Warlock few day ago and the campaign sent me to map/scenario called Niskara, after reading a but I found it is a map where multiples quests take place.

Well, blizzard really exploited the zone at least we can say that most classes have to go there, even when leveling my warlock a 110 alliance paladin killed me few times. So basically you can interact with others players in the zone so its not a scenario per se.

Post by Adamsm

So remember that whole discussion we were having over Sylvanas and her ultimate plan for the Val'kyr? After what is mentioned here, seems like whatever power the Queen of the Dead wanted is probably tied into this new set of things opening, which involve corruption from Heyla spreading.

Also, Rank, you mentioned that there is no comment about what Sylvanas tried...well, except for the comments from Halls of Valor that is; Eyir says: Through great deeds of courage and valor, Hyrja has earned this most sacred of rites. She shall ascend as one of my chosen val'kyr, and her name shall echo in these gilded halls for all eternity.
Olmyr the Enlightened says: Are you nervous, Hyrja? It is understandable if-
Hyrja says: I am not nervous. Only... excited. All my life has led to this one glorious moment.
Solsten says: Spoken like a true val'kyr.
Olmyr the Enlightened says: Mortal intruders approach!
Eyir says: I witnessed their deeds in Stormheim. Their kind has no true honor. No true virtue.
Hyrja says: I will purge them from these sacred halls myself!
Eyir says: The ritual is not yet complete.Fairly obviously Eyir is pissed at what almost happened so having the leader of the Chosen of the Slain angry at you is a very bad thing.

Post by Atik

I bring up again that, while Eyir is clearly pissed, Odyn doesn't seem to give a single damn, and even knowingly sends you to interrupt the ritual.

Post by oneforthemoney

Odyn seems to be a bit of a $%^&, though.

Post by Atik

Post by oneforthemoney

Odyn seems to be a bit of a $%^&, though.

Be that as it may, he certainly finds the Alliance and Horde entertaining, and actively encourages you to kill forces of the other faction during world quests.

Thus, I don't think he would allow Eyir to act against us.

I suppose it may depend on how much he knows about events. If he knew Sylvanas got that lantern from Helya, I think he might be a bit more irate. No love lost between those two, after all. But his defining trait seems to be 'enjoys seeing people fight', so encouraging the Alliance and Horde to kill each other is certainly in line with his personality.

However, the valks are pretty important to him. They do bring him new champions. Honestly, we have too little information about what he knows about what happened with Eyir to determine his opinions on the matter. Though, if Helya calls in her favour with Sylvanas, we might find out.

Post by Rankkor

Also, Rank, you mentioned that there is no comment about what Sylvanas tried...well, except for the comments from Halls of Valor that is; Eyir says: Through great deeds of courage and valor, Hyrja has earned this most sacred of rites. She shall ascend as one of my chosen val'kyr, and her name shall echo in these gilded halls for all eternity.
Olmyr the Enlightened says: Are you nervous, Hyrja? It is understandable if-
Hyrja says: I am not nervous. Only... excited. All my life has led to this one glorious moment.
Solsten says: Spoken like a true val'kyr.
Olmyr the Enlightened says: Mortal intruders approach!
Eyir says: I witnessed their deeds in Stormheim. Their kind has no true honor. No true virtue.
Hyrja says: I will purge them from these sacred halls myself!
Eyir says: The ritual is not yet complete.Fairly obviously Eyir is pissed at what almost happened so having the leader of the Chosen of the Slain angry at you is a very bad thing.

She says the exact same lines when you do the dungeon as alliance. These lines are not exclusive to horde players.

I feel compelled to remind you that alliance players don't heroically swoop in to save the poor and chaste and innocent vrykul maidens from sylvanas' insanity. You go in there and kill them by the scores too, setting their buildings on fire, breaking their weapons, and participating in their sacred rites without having been born of the clan.

Even after all is said and done, and we finish that questchain, we still go back regularly to kill them by the scores via world quests, given by the wardens, and....... oddly enough..... odyn himself. (And by "we" I mean alliance and horde both)

He's not exactly the best boss to work for I gather.

Odyn seems to be a bit of a $%^&, though.

"A bit" is kind of an understatement. Dude is a MASSIVE jerkass, who despite acting jovial and jolly, has done some incredibly questionable things, in the past, and the present. He openly goads alliance and horde players to kill each other, despite this being literally the worst time possible to be fanning the flames of old grudges.

Though, if Helya calls in her favour with Sylvanas, we might find out.

Its still eating me away to know what was sylvanas supposed to give in return for that lamp. Sylvanas has been making deals with a lot of folks without us knowing the details either. I mean, she also dealt with the scourge valks, to the point that they were willing to give their lives for hers, and we still don't know the exact details of that particular deal.

If he knew Sylvanas got that lantern from Helya, I think he might be a bit more irate. No love lost between those two, after all.

I still have my doubts about that. You said it yourself, he loves to watch people fight, the helarjar are the natural enemies of his valarjar, and if they're locked up, they don't exactly pose a treat to his people.

He regularly sends you off to kill his own men (For example, go into the halls of valor, and kill one of his chosen elite officers) he sends you off to Skold-Ashil to kill the valkyria leaders, he even sends you off to kill random vrykul in stormheim that are not affiliated to the legion in any way, like Huntress Estrid. Seems like he just doesn't give a hoot if his people live or die. He may even see sylvanas' actions as the ultimate test. If his men died at her hands, they were unworthy to be chosen, after all, that's the rationale he applies when you kill the very vrykul that worship the ground he walks on.

Post by morginar

Wonder if Odyn Trialsson would approve of Sylvanas doing whatever she wanted to do with Eyir if it ended up with more battle. (either horde vs alliance or Sylvanas vs the legion)

So far... It seems he would. (unless you ask him about Loken because your talking dagger told you to)

A shame Helya dies and Odyn von Trial does not.. It would improve the warrior hall if it was less Odyn, son of Trial and titans and more Warrior. With the PC as leader.

Post by oneforthemoney

He seems to have little trouble with people fighting, but the thing about him is he does seem some standards. He only wants those skilled and, more importantly, honourable. He clearly loathes Skovold and the Legion. But his sense of honour is very much the vyrkul sense of it, which is pretty barbaric, but mostly revolves around respect and tradition. He has no time for those who can't respect strength or who 'cheat,' which is why Helya pisses him off to no end because she steals honourable warriors at drags them down to Hel. Not saying Helya isn't understandable for her whys of doing it, but looking at him, it's not so surprising the Vyrkul in Northrend teamed up with the Lich King. Arthas was like a crueller and far more vicious Odyn in the way he treated them.

Also, I think Odyn doesn't really think of anyone as 'his men' until they are brought up into the Halls of Valour. Until then, pretty much everyone to him are just competitors for the honour, facilitators to prove themselves worthy, or unworthy, which again, is why he's so pissed at Helya. It's all not too surprising as he's stuck in the damn Halls.

Post by morginar

He doesn't seem to loathe Skovold though. Because he would have gotten the shield if we weren't faster with trial#55.

Post by Rankkor

but mostly revolves around respect and tradition. He has no time for those who can't respect strength or who 'cheat,'

And yet he allows Skovald, who cheated through and through the entire zone, displayed cowardice multiple times, and desecrated the ancient rites, a fair shot at the aegis of aggramar in the halls of valor, instead of smithing him down on the spot, or simply denying him access to the aegis in the first place.

Again, this dude comes across as VERY bipolar.
Also, I think Odyn doesn't really think of anyone as 'his men' until they are brought up into the Halls of Valour.

And yet, he has no problems whatsoever in sending us to the halls of valor to kill his ascended chosen on a regular basis. Those who passed his trials, who became officers in his army, who devoted their lives to him. And he just sends us to kill them with complete disregard for their safety.

Also, every single inhabitant of Skold-Ashil devotes their lives to him, and a few pages back, more than one was arguing that had sylvanas succeeded in her plans there, this would have upset Odyn. Either he considers the valkyria aspirants as part of his flock, or he doesn't.

Given that he later sends you to kill them, apparently he doesn't.

Post by oneforthemoney

Though I do wonder if once you're in valkyrion if you even can die. At least the chosen. Valks of all stripes do have the power to raise the dead, and Valkyrion is pretty clearly viking heaven analogy. So really, it might be more like he doesn't mind if they die because he can just bring them back. He does say there's no shame in defeat, and here, defeat usually means getting your skull caved in.

However, his valkyr are the only way for him to bring the worthy up there, so I can't imagine he'd be thrilled if someone stole them all.

Post by Rankkor

There's a lot of inconsistencies regarding odyn if you think about it.

He's supposed to be trapped in the halls of valor, but at the end of the stormheim zone, you find out that the vrykul storyteller Havi, has been odyn in disguise all along. So he..... what..... can freely travel all over stormheim, yet he can't leave the halls? its not like Havi was an avatar or that he can't go outside in his titan form either, because he transforms back to odyn while still outside of the halls too.

His personality is apparently not the only thing that goes back and forth.

Post by Rankkor

whelp, patch 7.1 leaked the ending cinematic of the nighthold raid, and I was able to take a peek. Can't really link it, as blizzard considers this an actual "leak" and in fact asked wowhead to pull the video that we datamined, and will be pulling down all the copies they can find on youtube, so anyone who wishes to see ahead of time, better hurry up while they're still up.

Apparently, its at the end of the nighthold raid that Illidan comes back. And what other way could he come back, if not to steal our damned kill >_> always the show-off.

Since the vid is only 1 min long, I don't have much context, but gul'dan was trying to open some sort of massive red portal, and by defeating him, its closed, as gul'dan kneels on the ground, baffled at his defeat, suddenly wings sprout behind him, only for the camera to move and reveal that they're not his wings, but Illidan's.

Illidan then grabs gul'dan by the neck, pumps him full of fel energy, causing glowy green cracks to show on his skin (identical to how varian died) and causes his body to violently explode (again, exactly like Varian. I guess we can call it karma).

I was disappointed when I checked the dungeon journal and saw that the loot table for gul'dan didn't include his skull and wondered what would happen to it, considering the skull of the main timeline gul'dan was such a powerful artifact. Well, the cinematic reveals it. After Illidan explodes the body of gul'dan, all that remains is his skull on illidan's hand, which he then just crushes like a cookie. =/

The cinematic ends with illidan turning towards the raiders who defeated gul'dan, and says "You have seen what I have seen. You know what we face. Now mortals, follow me, into the abyss". Cue the fade to black

I'm a little disappointed really, but mostly because of how utterly ham-fisted their attempts are at making illidan a hero all of the sudden. I imagine there'll be a build-up for this, to set up proper context, those illidan quests with xe'ra and the illidari will continue and actually deliver a setup to this payoff, but still =/

I'm most disappointed by the fate of the Skull of Alt!Gul'dan. The main one was an incredible artifact of near limitless power in the main timeline, even its drained whitered remain that we loot in BT still had enough power to be quite the upgrade at the time.

A new fresh skull could have opened endless posibilities, maybe as the focus of the warlock and/or demon hunter/Death Knight campaigns, maybe khadgar would do something with it (given that on draenor he asks us to get him the skull when we go to HFC) maybe jaina would steal it (speeding her downfall into villainy).

Something. ANYTHING. Instead, Illidan just unceremoniously crushes it in his hands. He may or may not have drained it first, I'm not sure, the cinematic doesn't really explains.

I also must laugh at Gul'dan's "famous last words". Of all the things he could have said, the best he could come up with was "it cannot be". Not like garrosh's "You made me who I am!!" or "YOU MADE A PACT!!!!!!" from archimonde, or even Main!Gul'dan who at least died making a badass boast "I AM GUL'DAN, I AM DARKNESS INCARNATE, AND I WILL NOT BE DENIED!!!!!!" nope, just a meager whimpering "it cannot be". Makes me want to re-enact Clegane's scene from game of thrones when we beat him.(##RESPBREAK##)520##DELIM##Rankkor##DELIM##

Post by morginar

Looking at the cinematic. Is that Liadrin, Khadgar (again) and Veressa Windrunner, looking up to Illidan?

Post by Stabhorn

I, for one, loved the cinematic. Though we lack context from the actual fight, I thoroughly enjoyed the stupefied look on Gul'dan's face as all his plans crumbled before him. He died with only a whisper, and I think that is a fitting conclusion to his character arc.

I also saw Illidan's breaking of the skull as symbolic; he no longer has a need for it and extinguished Gul'dan's final presence on Azeroth. (Sure, its a powerful artifact, but does it stack with the Scepter of Sargeras or the other DH/Warlock artifacts? If not, its useless.)

On my second watch through, I noticed Illidan's corpse inside that giant crystal. Makes me wonder what Gul'dan was doing with it. Perhaps if Sargeras is still body-less, he was going to transfer his spirit into Illidan?

To answer your question, Morg; yes.

Post by Rankkor

Well yes, I liked it too, particularly the cinematography of it. But what really grinds my gears is just how HARD they're trying to make Illidan a hero, when he's anything but. This is more heavyhanded than the way they de-villanized Kerrigan in starcraft, and that game was as blunt about it as a bag of hammers.

Subtlety is not blizzard's way apparently. I really should have gotten used to the idea of illidan saving the day by now, but I just can't. Dude is a psycho, and a murderer, a deranged sociopath that had to be stopped. But nope, we suck for killing poor misunderstood illi-boy, and here he's back, holding no grudges, and acting all noble and dignified........

X_X

I will say this though, from a direction point of view, that shot of illidan deploying his wings from behind Gul'dan was nothing short of GLORIOUS. That simply looks BADASS AS #$%&. Credits where they're due, illidan knows how to make a proper entrance.

Post by poorsap

Main!Gul'dan who at least died making a badass boast "I AM GUL'DAN, I AM DARKNESS INCARNATE, AND I WILL NOT BE DENIED!"
Are you sure? I recall a bit different wording, actually closer to that of his brother (cousin? clone? What term do we use?):
"I am Gul'dan! I am Darkness Incarnate! It cannot end... like this."

Post by Adamsm

You know, if you don't do the Druid Artifact quest, the fact that Ursoc is a boss in the Nightmare isn't really explained.

Also, Xavius does say his powers are from the Old Gods when he captures him.

Post by Rankkor

I think it was pretty cool that druids got to experience a small preview of the emerald nightmare if they do the guardian artifact.

General Lore Discussions

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