General Lore Discussions

Post by Rankkor

Speaking of the Tomb of Sargeras: Who built it? Who moved the corpse there? how come the island then sunk under the sea? The answer to all of those questions is simple Rank: Aegwynn the Guardian created the Tomb

See, I have a serious problem just accepthing that.

So she just built it. All by herself. It didn't took her decades or even months, nope, she just clapped her hands and willed a palatial fortress into existing. Look at the size of this thing. You're telling me that she took the time to design that thing, add giant statues, foreboding architecture, and everything just for her greatest enemy? Why?

Look at those floating green thingies, where did those come from? If she sealed it, where did all the demons inside came from? Did they just sprout out of the corpse? or is the corpse a sort of gateway for more demons? if so, why would she make the tomb spacious instead of a 4x4 cubicle? if it was to deter intruders from finding the body, bang-up there missy, not one or two, but THREE people were able to find it anyways, and the large interior just served as a staging area for thousands of demons to inhabit.

There's only so much one can get away with by using the "they have magic" excuse. If magic can build something this colossal, why can't all the mages on the Kirin Tor rebuild theramoore? Why did it take them so long to rebuild only a part of dalaran? Why haven't the mages of Silvermoon been able to rebuild the other half of their city? This is the same reason why I pretend that the spell to Conjure Food doesn't exist in the lore. Its a tad more difficult to believe the "orcs are starving in the desert" plotline when they have mages that can will food out of thin air.

And regarding the sinking the island to the sea, it still doesn't explain how come it has such a diverse flora, fauna, and even other civilizations living there. Including vrykuls on a thousand year pilgrimage, taurens, and a never-before-seen legion-loyalist elves, that have flourished and prospered without anyone ever finding them out. Even after the near brush in warcraft 3.

Ugh. Just like I said before, this game used to have a deep well thought-out plot, able to withstand nit-pickings like these, able to endure QUESTIONS. But this new lore, the moment you start to question anything, the credibility just falls apart. The suspension of disbelief is only maintained by nodding and smiling and looking at the pretty pictures and cutscenes. The moment you start to ask "why" all pretenses of immersion and believability are lost.

Post by Adamsm

She's the Guardian Rank; infused with the essence of the most powerful mages of the time, alive for almost 800 years, she's forgotten more things then even the strongest of the Kirn Tir had ever learned....however, the thing we're seeing in Legion is not the original Tomb; they described it in Tides of Darkness and it was a labyrinth of twisted corridors and dead ends, designed to keep the demons sealed away with the frozen body of the Avatar.

Post by oneforthemoney

Eh. I don't find it too hard to believe she made it. Medivh made the Dark Portal on his own, and that is pretty imposing, if basic. Aegwynn was so high on power from the Council of Trisfal and full of herself for killing the avatar of Sargeras I don't find it too hard to believe she put that much effort into building it. Until she found out she was played hard by Sargeras, she was on such an ego trip she probably saw it as more of a monument to her own awesomeness. As for demons inside of it, I'm pretty sure it was very strongly implied those were actually naga rather than actual demons.

As for the sinking of island...Yeah. That is pretty dumb, and I agree with you on the cohesiveness of WoW's lore losing a lot of its glue along with villains. Also, it seems like tauren have more species variations than the freaking murlocs.

Post by Adamsm

As for demons inside of it, I'm pretty sure it was very strongly implied those were actually naga rather than actual demons. No, those were 'Daemons'; the descriptions in Tides of Darkness were beings of unbearable shape and form streaming towards the Orcs, intending to rip them limb from limb...and doing so.

Post by morginar

Wasn't the tomb originally a building of night elven origin, a part of suramar. Just recycled for the tomb.

Post by Adamsm

Hard to tell since we have this:
In Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness, the tomb did not appear as a building on the map, and was portrayed in a cinematic as an actual subterranean, relatively primitive stone tomb. When the location was revisited in Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne, it appeared as an ornate building at the heart of the ruins of Suramar.With the shifting of lore well...who knows now. Though you'd think that they would leave that part alone.

Post by morginar

Well if Rommath can rebuild and recolor half of silvermoon over a night (with the help of some green gems), maybe the legion can do the same to the tomb.

Post by Adamsm

That's honestly what I'm thinking; after all, look what Gul'dan did to the Black Citadel in Warlords with just some Fel juice.

Post by morginar

That's honestly what I'm thinking; after all, look what Gul'dan did to the Black Citadel in Warlords with just some Fel juice.

Indeed, it seems logical. Kinda.

Well, it nice that we might have the evil lair visible from the start like BT and ICC. Unless they do another Tannan at us and we lose another Faralohn.

Post by Adamsm

Yeah. If it is a fel corrupted place, hopefully we'll get to see how it happened.

Post by Morec0

This HAD to be shared:

http://imgur.com/gallery/qvou5U1

Post by Rankkor

I just about died xD

I'm SO posting that on the RB.

Post by Adamsm

While I'm not happy about a book about Emo-King(cause you know that is what we need /roll eyes) I am happy to see that they are going to be branching out to other authors; lord knows that the Blizzard universes need it.

Post by Rankkor

While I'm not happy about a book about Emo-King(cause you know that is what we need /roll eyes)

Hmmm, bro' what exactly did you expect? Illidan is full front and center in the next expansion, it was inevitable that a book about him would be released. Time will tell if this is gonna be a prequel novel (Set during his final days in TBC) or if its gonna actually be set in the present and move the plot forward.

Also, I kinda figured that they'd hire someone else. Golden is gonna be busy writing a prequel novel for the Warcraft movie, and every expansion needs a book to bridge to it. Since she's not gonna be able to write it (I imagine working on 2 books simultaneously is neither easy, nor productive) they'd have to bring someone else.

I'm just glad its not Knaak. I dislike his heavy use of prose, his slow pacing, and the way he over-idealizes human characters, while going out of his way to vilify and degrade orc ones.

Intrigued at the starcraft book though. Haven't had one of those in ages.

Post by Adamsm

I'm glad it not Golden for a while...tired of her writing style and forcing certain characters to the fore front while ruining others.

And I hope to the Goddess that Illidan is not an actual important character in Legion and is only there for the prequel/Demon Hunter starting zone...really do not need him back in the story.

Post by oneforthemoney

Post by Rankkor

And I hope to the Goddess that Illidan is not an actual important character in Legion and is only there for the prequel/Demon Hunter starting zone...really do not need him back in the story.

Very slim chance of that mate. When he's at the front of the box, you can bet he's gonna be central to the plot. I've never seen them put someone on the box art only to show up in a prequel and a starting area.

With the exception of Vanilla (Which just had a generic night elf) and TBC (Which had just a generic blood elf) all the expansion boxes feature someone who's a recurring character in that expansion. From the Lich King, Deathwing, Chen, to Grom.

Blizz loves the characters from W3. Too bad they seem to have forgotten how to write them since.

/sighs

True that. They seem to be scrapping at the bottom of the barrel for whatever remains that people loved about the franchise. The problem is every time they bring back classic characters they mess up horribly.

And not only is Illidan gonna be playing a prominent role in Legion, so is Sylvanas. I shudder to think what they have in store for her. What inhumane and horrific ways they're gonna mangle her characterization next.(##RESPBREAK##)520##DELIM##Rankkor##DELIM##

Post by oneforthemoney

More like bottom of the coffin. Seriously? Xavius? Illidan? And after Warlords where we only fought people long dead...

Still. They might be able to make it work. We'll see. Maybe working on the movie will have given them some much needed inspiration on how to write a self contained story like W3 was.

Post by Adamsm

Bleh, I still hope it's only echoes and not him; Emo-boy is still the one character in the Warcraft universe that I absolutely loathe above all others....we really do not need him back in any shape or form.

I could handle Xavius coming back; after all, we've seen him survive death before. As for Sylvanas......if it's as an 'ebil' character, saw that coming from long off; but then again, I don't care about her anyway and after those cringe worthy scenes from War Crimes, if she turns rabid then just put her down.

Post by Rankkor

Bleh, I still hope it's only echoes and not him; Emo-boy is still the one character in the Warcraft universe that I absolutely loathe above all others....we really do not need him back in any shape or form.

Just like we didn't need back Muradin, or Mal'ganis, or Ragnaros, or Nefarian, or so many others that have died and have been brought back.

Lets face it, death is just a slap on the wrist in this franchise at this point. I wouldn't even be surprised if Antonidas, or Rhonin, or Krasus ever came back. Not after what we've seen.

And the odds of Illidan coming back as an "echo" are abysmally low bro'. The new stance of blizzard is that demons never truly die. Worst you can do is destroy their bodies, but their essenses linger on until they can reform. And with Illidan now more demon than elf, him coming back "for real" is more than a strong possibility.

As for Sylvanas......if it's as an 'ebil' character, saw that coming from long off; but then again, I don't care about her anyway and after those cringe worthy scenes from War Crimes, if she turns rabid then just put her down.

Ohh hell no. No more horde racial leader slayings. If there's another major race leader that needs to die, it HAS to be alliance >_> Jaina is a good contender.

Come on man, first Cairne, then Garrosh, then our entire roster from Warcraft 2. Enough is enough.

I was thinking something else entirely for her direction.

This is mostly just wishful thinking on my end, but the story of Sylvanas has been closely tied to the Val'kyrs recently, and one of the major zones on the next expac is Stormheim, the birthplace of the original Val'kyrs, free of scourge taint. And lets remember that Val'kyrs specialize in bringing people back to life.

Me and a guildie were speculating that maybe, just maybe, the forsaken actually find a cure for their condition in stormheim. And end up similarly to the worgen, with the ability to go between undead and human forms. After all, Valks in northrend had 2 forms of resurrection. The losers of the ascension challenge at Jotunheim get rezzed as the decayed Vargul which are pretty much Forsaken in all but name. And the winners get rezzed as Ymirjar, who attain true immortality and get to keep their prime condition and for all intents and purposes are empowered living beings no longer mortal.

Its entirely possible that in Stormheim, we get to see the uncorrupted version of this ritual, leading to the purification of the forsaken, allowing them to regain their human forms.

Just another round of wishful speculation by a bunch of fellow warcraft nerds.

More like bottom of the coffin. Seriously? Xavius? Illidan? And after Warlords where we only fought people long dead...

Still. They might be able to make it work. We'll see. Maybe working on the movie will have given them some much needed inspiration on how to write a self contained story like W3 was.

Indeed. I've seen such comebacks before in videogames, where the creators just run out of ideas, but later on get greater bouts of inspiration and their works become awesome once more. Its not impossible for this to happen to warcraft too. Even if I don't see it as very likely at the moment.

They seriously REALLY, screwed up in this expansion. Despite the pretty continent, they dropped the ball in almost every single aspect. Almost 80% of everyone I know in wow has left.

General Lore Discussions

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