General Lore Discussions

Post by Adamsm

So...here's a question: Is Garona still half-draenei or not? They still have her tagged as Garona Half-Orcen but is she really? Was Gul'dan actually able to perform his experiments this time around or what.

Post by oneforthemoney

Probably. He did force age her, so it could have happened at any time.

Post by Stabhorn

Is it sad that I only just now realize the significance of Garona's last name?

Post by 355559

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Post by Rankkor

So, a slight change of topic here.

Forgive me if this comes off as an RP-focused question, but I feel like it has enough of a 'general lore' feel to it, and it's just sort of a general curiosity that crossed my mind.

What happens to undead and demons in an Anti-magic zone?

This especially came to me when I realized that Death Knights are the class with such an ability. How do they survive in their own Anti-magic bubbles?

Or am I thinking of it the wrong way and it's more a mass silence?

I don't think they nullify any magic inside. Just prevents any magic from getting in. Of course, in my personal head canon once you conjure an anti-magic zone, you also can't get any magic out. So in my own head-canon my Death Knight has to decide the risk-vs-reward of planting a magic-nullifying zone in the field. Protection against ranged attacks, vs, inability of using ranged attacks myself against targets outside the boundaries of the zone.

I've always seen Anti-Magic Shields/Zones/Bubbles as something that blocks/absorbs magic effects directed at it from the outside, not as something that completely negates any form of magic inside it's radius.

I'm not sure what you mean with how undead, demons and DKs would survive inside an Anti-Magic field. As far as I know they don't require magic to live, they merely use it. Undead and DKs were revived using magic yes, but it's not their life source, they wouldn't just collapse if they were ever in a magic free zone.

In the case of Death Knights, it absorbs it, rather than just block it. Death Knights are animated through magic, a magic so strong its self-sustaining rather than be dependent on their necromancer to live.

In the case of lesser undead like skeletons, once the necromancer is gone, so is the minion. Stronger types of undead like Liches can subsist on their own. I see Death Knights as sustaining themselves via feeding off magic (A more extreme form of the blood elves) and storing the energies that they feed on in the runes they engrave on their blades.

"The Endless Hunger" that death knights suffer is the source of their substenance. If they don't kill regularly, they start to suffer horrible pains, and die. They literally reap life out of others to keep themselves going, and can use anti-magic shells and barriers to absorb enemy spells and boost up.

Demons are an entirely different thing though.

So...here's a question: Is Garona still half-draenei or not? They still have her tagged as Garona Half-Orcen but is she really? Was Gul'dan actually able to perform his experiments this time around or what.

Given that she benefits from both the Child of Draenor and the Ally of Argus perks in garrison missions, I'm gonna go ahead and say yes.(##RESPBREAK##)520##DELIM##Rankkor##DELIM##

Post by Scrumptous

next expac is CLEARLY Invasion Of The Burning Legion and The aforementioned escaping/banished bad guy will most definitely have at least some presence in that expac.

The other aforementioned baddie not passing on in a manner we are used to.... Hard to say. Prince Malch in Kara didn't die in that manner... Perhaps the body lying there is simply for the benefit of the players... "there is the foe we vanquished" I think that is a SMALL detail.

Grom... Well, He joins up with us against the demons and gul'dan through HFC perhaps after a few bosses down, he redeems himself. Perhaps he surrenders to Khadgar and because we aren't freaking monsters we decide to let him redeem himself... we just don't know yet.

Post by Rankkor

Well, its official. Hellfire Citadel is indeed the last raid of WoD (It was evident, only the final raid of an expansion features a cinematic when you kill the last boss. I didn't see no cinematic in Ulduar, Black Temple, or Throne of Thunder)

And I totally called it with Farhalon.

The minute, the second, they said that Tanaan wouldn't be in 6.0 I just knew Farhalon would never be added to the game. They'd just add Tanaan as the post-launch zone, and Farhalon would be forever lost.

This means last blizzcon they went back on almost everything they said.

They said we'd get Tanaan, Frostfire, Gorgrond, Talador, Shadowmoon, Arak, and Nagrand in 6.0 and Farhalon in a post-expansion patch. Didn't happen.

They said Grom would be the final boss. Didn't happen.

They said they'd have a big prominent quest for blood knights, exploring what their new relationship with the light was. Didn't happen, in fact Liandrin had little more than a cameo in the expansion, limited to showing up for a total of 20 quests in one zone, and then both her and all her sunsworn blood elves never show up again.

They said Garrisons would be able to be placed in any zone, and even allow us to name them. Didn't happen.

They said that flight would be restricted in 6.0 then added with an epic quest chain in 6.1. Didn't happen. In fact they announced that it would never be back, neither in WoD, nor any future expansion, and then it took the biggest player outcry since the fiasco of "Real ID on the Forums" to make it add it back, and even then it was via a meta-achievement and a rep grind rather than a quest.

They said that Karabor and Bladespire would serve as our capitals for the expansion. Didn't happen. We instead got Fort Copy&Paste in Ashran as our city.

They said we'd at least go back and re-visit these places, that they wouldn't be one-time-only visits. Didn't happen. We only go to Bladespire exactly once, and then never come back. With Karabor is even worse because we aren't even allowed to go inside at all. Ever.

They also said that part of the Iron Horde/Native Draenor Orcs would join the Horde from Main!Azeroth to bring both factions back to an equal level of power. We'll see if this too was nothing more than hot air. Considering the above track record, I'm not exactly hopeful.

Post by Atik

I was sort of explaining WoD, and everything wrong with it, to Hyper last night. And I slowly realized it was just a massive list of "what the actual ^&*!"

Post by Rankkor

I didn't wanted to say it. I refused to say it. But I gotta say it: this expansion may actually be Cataclysm 2.0

Seriously.

I enjoyed some parts of it, but the rest is just a confusing mess, and the development team did more face-heel turns than a catwalk model when it comes to their word. Similarly to how in cata I enjoyed some parts of it (Namely the revamped 1-60, and the worgen starting zone, but NOT the goblin one, seriously thrall, WTF dude, W.T.F) but the rest was an anticlimmactic, confusing, disappointing, and boring mess of a story that failed to evoke any emotions, failed to keep me interested, and more importantly, failed to entertain and captivate me. I just didn't cared. If they don't care, why should I?

That same sentiment blossomed here. Specially their dismissive reply in twitter to the whole "demons transcend alternate timelines" in which they essentially told us to "stop thinking about it and look at the pretty cinematics"

Post by oneforthemoney

I think the major problem I have with Warlords is how narrow the focus is. The world is broad and the players vast, but the content rarely reflects this. The story is so narrowly focused on the Iron Horde that the rest of content gets left in the dust. The primals? The arrakoa? All left behind for the focus on the Warlords. And even then, the Warlords are stomped so quickly and so easily they're utterly negligible. Not to say this was unexpected. Who we're dealing with are, after all, only mortal. But it forces the situation to railroad us and the Iron Horde to the end.

Compare to Wrath and the Lich King. Throughout the expansion the Scourge cast a huge shadow over the game in almost every zone, but even then we had other spots and enemies we could focus on. The Lich King certainly showed up more than we liked, but there was also Yogg, Malygos, and a bunch of others who could give us a break and allow for a broader variety of story to be told. All were world ending threats that needed to be resolved, because any one of them could destroy us. Here? The arakkoa were mostly just jerks to their lower class. The primals are content to slap on another around. So what is it?

In comparison, aside from a few dungeons, it's all about the Iron Horde. There's no huge threats rising up or needing to dealt with. It's all the Iron Horde. Even the Legion aren't a real menace until they get their hands on the dredges of the Iron Horde, and that's debatable on its own. They are the only threat. And we squash them so quickly it's almost sad. Not even Archimonde could turn it around.

Post by 355559

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Post by Rankkor

Honestly I'm just going to stop you right there. As many bad points as there were to this expansion you could actually tell they put time and effort into the expansion. Draenor is stunningly beautiful.

Well, yes, its pretty, and the leveling up quests are nice. But aside from that, what other good thing can one say about this expansion?

Its pretty to look at, its pretty to listen to, it made even our characters prettier too, and had a nice trip to the level cap. And then nothing at the level cap but rep grinds and apexis dailies. A minor patch disguised as a big one (6.1) that had pretty much nothing. And a major patch that added nothing more than another rep grind, and more apexis dailies. And the mandatory raiding tier because if they hadn't there'd be a riot.

Just like cataclysm, which had some nice things you could say about it, but was overwhelmingly negative from a gameplay perspective. A nice romp from 1-60, some nice moments from 80-85, and a few cool features like transmog and LFR. The rest was just horrible. The plot was horrible.

I may even go as far as saying that at least cataclysm sorta made up for the abysmal 4.0 with the latter patches. New dungeons, new features like transmog, 2 new raids, and void storage and LFR. What exactly did WoD add in latter patches? no new features, no new dungeons, no nothing. More rep grinds, more apexis dailies, 1 new raid. And that's it. And the most infuriating part of is is their double-talk where they say one thing, and then do another. Where the left hand says 6.1 should have been named 6.0.5 because there wasn't enough meat in it to label it a major patch (Watcher and Lore Live Q&A), but then the right hand says this expansion had two "big" patches.(Cory Stockton interview on Mamytwink)

To quote/paraphrase Yahtzee from Zero Punctuation "Warlords of Draenor is like a trophy wife. All it does is wear its prettiest dress but it doesn't actually do anything else at all except stand there smiling with the youtube buffering symbol cycling in its eyes." This is a hollow product with some good ideas that led to nowhere, and lots and lots of promises that remained unfulfilled. This ending was just anticlimactic and disappointing in every way I can imagine. We spend so much of this expansion chasing after Gul'dan, and in the end not only he doesn't die, we don't even get to fight him. Imagine that in any other expansion. Imagine a Wrath of the Lich King where we don't even face the lich king.

Post by 355559

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Post by Rankkor

We're crossing into the realm of opinion here because at this point and all future points I see absolutely nothing redeeming about Cataclysm. Nothing. Nothing at all.

I suppose we are indeed in the realm of opinion, because Cataclysm, despite being the one and only expansion to have made me quit the game (for 9 months) had a slight few redeeming qualities for me. Namely the transmog (Which considering how horrendous the DK sets are, I'm deeply grateful for this thing), and the revamped 1-60 zones. Previously, I shuddered at having to level alts due to how horrendous the vanilla quests were.

in that regard, WoD has also a few redeeming qualities (the leveling experience from 90 to 100, the art assets on the new races, and the beautifully rendered draenor but NOT the armor, that one remains as crappy as ever, the music, etc) but the overall experience when you weigh the good vs the bad, end up with a scale heavily tipped towards the bad.

For me, Mists of Pandaria had its issues too, but again, in that imaginary scale, putting all the bad on the left, and all the good on the right, the good greatly outweighed the bad. I can't say the same for WoD, just as I couldn't say the same for Cata. Hence why I compare them. Even though I admit cata was worse than WoD. Way worse.

If the next expansion comes out and has a similar leveling experience I'll buy it when it's on sale.

Well, we're on the same page here. Unless wow drastically improves, I'll just end up buying the expansions to experience the alliance and horde leveling zones, get to the level cap, and then just don't bother to return until the next expansion. There's almost nothing to keep me logging. Which, again, was the exact same case as Cataclysm.

On the whole, cata was worse than WoD, but WoD came narrowly close to equaling cata on the suck-o-meter as far as I'm concerned.

Cata was so horrendously bad I don't raid in WoW, or any game now because I'm so burnt out on raids.

heh, funny, I had a similar experience with raids in wow thanks to good ol' cataclysm. After being able to clear ICC25H 9/12 on WOTLK, in cata I didn't raid at all during the entirety of the expansion (except for LFR, and even then, only 4 times total) and also didn't raid at all in MoP during most of the expansion except for SoO where I "Got back into my mojo" so to speak and was able to clear it entirely on normal, heroic, and 10/14 mythic.

The bad taste of cata-raids has entirely washed off my mouth because as of WoD I've been able to clear Highmaul and BRF, and am currently 5/13 in HFC.

Post by Rankkor

Whelp, I heard an interesting theory last night while me and my guild were doing a ~~drunk~~ run of SoO Mythic.

Blame it on the ~~booze~~excitement but our healer had this big idea about why they kept Gul'dan alive.

Next expansion will be the burning legion invading azeroth, they'll turn Gul'dan into a green lich king, and then bolvar wakes up, so its Yellow LK vs Green LK.

As ridiculous as that idea sounds, I can't deny it would be AWESOME to see.

Post by oneforthemoney

As ridiculous as that idea sounds, I can't deny it would be AWESOME to see.

Be better if it didn't rely on whatever's left of the Scourge kicking around being enough to threaten us. I wouldn't mind maybe a trip to alternate Azeroth, one where the Lich King never betrayed the Legion as he is now Gul'Dan, Arthas is still a death knight and the Legion has the world by the throat when we arrive.

Post by Rankkor

Bleh, seeing how badly they botched the whole "alternate dimension" thingie, I'd rather not. I'd rather we stick to our main universe, with threats that come FROM our main universe.

Post by oneforthemoney

Bleh, seeing how badly they botched the whole "alternate dimension" thingie, I'd rather not. I'd rather we stick to our main universe, with threats that come FROM our main universe.

Maybe. But for that to happen, then either the new Scourge would need to wipe out huge swathes of numbers to make them threatening, or we'll have to swallow that even after Wrath, there would be enough Scourge to menace us.

Maybe a fel Lich King on another Draenor continent?

Post by Stabhorn

I hope we return to our timeline, and let this one fade. But, if we do go back, we know for a fact that we'll first be facing the Legion, and then the Old God(s)/Naga.

Post by Skreeran

This is a fun read:

In Ask CDev Round 2, Bashiok said the "missing" characters of the Warcraft universe (Calia Menethil, Turalyon, Alleria Windrunner, Med'an, Gallywix, etc.) have not been forgotten. "While we'd love to talk about these characters, doing so would spoil a number of the plots we have for Cataclysm and beyond. Believe us when we say that you will definitely hear about these characters when we're ready to talk about them!"

Recent interviews have revealed that Turalyon's story will continue: not in Mists of Pandaria, but in the expansion after it. It was later said during Blizzcon 2013 Q&A that they will not appear in Warlords of Draenor, but the expansion after that.

General Lore Discussions

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