General Lore Discussions

Post by Stabhorn

Post by Morec0

So, as others have mentioned already, there were obviously two different Velens between our world and the alternate timeline. But, there's only one Archimonde and Kil'jaedan. So how does that make sense? Archimonde had to exist, on both timelines, as a non-demonic entity. So did the two Archimondes just merge into a single demon? Did all other Archimondes cease to be? If on one timeline, Velen turns into a demon, wouldn't that supercede all other Velens? It doesn't make sense.

Also, the Old Gods are supposed to make Sargeras look like a wimp, along with the rest of the Legion. If anything, this 'one soul' crap should apply to them. You know, since they are actually outside the cycle and all that.

I'm hoping them saying that outloud has actually made them realize "wow, this idea was DUMB" and they'll change it. Only other thing I could think of is that the Shard of Time (or whatever it was) LITERALLY CREATED the new Reality that Draenor is in, connected by the "above reality" Nether.

This would mean while reality worlds - Argus, Draenor, ect. - would be bound to follow events similar to what happened on them, when they enter into the Void in such a way to become one with it (i.e. their demon soul being bound to it) they cease to exist as a being of reality, so they aren't bound to follow the duplication of them when there's a duplicate reality. It's basically 'yeah! Argus is going on! we're with the Legion now! Going into the Nether, and..." there about's where they fuse.

It's actually a rather interesting thought I had that, maybe, by creating this new reality Garrosh undid Archimond's death - reviving them by virtue of connecting a world where he has not yet died to one where he was destroyed.

But with the Old Gods demon comparison, I think the key to the Old Gods power lies in that they CAN'T be totally destroyed, no matter what. For the demons it's like elemental lords - go into the Nether, kill them there, they're gone for good. But the Old Gods? No, we can't put them down, only incapacitate them. They WILL rise again no matter what.

But, all in all, it's stupid. They should have just said "this IS alternate Archimonde" and be done with it. When we've stopped the Legion from being a threat to getting to our Azeroth the story should become "Hellscream, there's still another world that will need the Horde", and the Iron Horde then progresses to invade their Azeroth to one day help defend it. Our Azeroth, our reality, would be forever linked to this Draenor and this reality, but it's time we took our leave of it.

Post by Adamsm

Post by Atik

We've already heard the Prince in Kara make a comment about all dimensions/all realities were open to him; just means to me that like the Bleed of Wildstorm/DC, the Twisting Nether touches all existences....and since KJ and Archimonde are part of the Legion who dwell within the Nether, there are only themselves and that maybe we haven't actually killed Archimonde way back when but merely one spot where he bled through.

As for why there aren't two; could be once you go Legion and enter the Nether, you absorb the others of yourself out there and there is only going to be one.

But then what of an example like this.

Two Archimonde's. One is from our typical timeline, where he joins the Legion and becomes the dude we're used to. The other sides with Valen, defies the Legion, and goes on to become a hero of the Draenei. But eventually, he becomes power hungry, searching for more strength to defend his people, and eventually becomming an Eredar in a bid to fight the Legion from within.

Which Archimonde is the one that becomes multi-dimensional? Do they both exist across all multiverses? Does such a thing become confusing for the Legion postal service?

I mean, if KJ says "Fetch me Archimonde", does the poor sap doing it need to ask which dimension's Archimonde he means?

Post by Adamsm

Post by Atik

Post by Morec0

Post by Adamsm

Post by Stabhorn

In my example it wouldn't matter; as soon as an Archimonde made a choice to join the Legion and entered the Nether, all others were absorbed into that one so that it could exist in all dimensions at once.

So do the wildly different personalities of other potential Archimondes not even matter?

Variables and constants?

And which personality would control the others? The most evil? Or the most loyal to the Legion? Or simply the strongest willed?

It's still stupid. And what about demons who potentially never went into the Twisting Nether? We have no proof that Sorcerthar did, on either timeline.

Post by lulubeans96

One thing that could be possible is that once the first Archimonde decided to side with the Legion, all the other Archimonde's in the multiverse became destined to eventually succumb to the Legion's will.

Or, once Archimonde joined the Legion, he becomes a different entity altogether that is seperate from the Draenei Archimonde, making it possible for some universes to have a heroic Archimonde and others to have the Legion allied Archimonde that we are used to.

This does mean that there is the possibility for Archimonde to go to a universe where he hasn't become a demon, of course. I like to think it is actually a mix of both of these theories. For example, Legion Archy could go to a universe where he is still a Draenei, and once the Draenei Archimonde sees what he has become, he believes it is his destiny and eventually becomes a demon as well.

Damn, I think I gave myself a headache.

Post by Morec0

Damn, I think I gave myself a headache.

The irony is: at the start of all this they said "we're not going to deal with the time travel mess, this is a new Draenor and a new reality."

Of course, we ALL know why they're doing this: they want to make sure they have all the badass big bads they can lined up for the Legion expansion, even if that means resurrecting some.

Post by Atik

Of course, we ALL know why they're doing this: Blizzard's lore department quit after Cata. They've been renting the manatees from Family Guy for their stories.

Fixed that for you.

Post by Morec0

Of course, we ALL know why they're doing this: Blizzard's lore department quit after Cata. They've been renting the manatees from Family Guy for their stories.

Fixed that for you.

Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh...

Post by Rankkor

Man, what have they unleashed with that innocuous tweet.

Its like the more they try to explain it, the more confused them (and us) become.

When they have to resort to THIS sort of reply, you know they're in over their heads.

"Shhh, shhh, you're thinking about this too hard, look at the shiny lights and sparkes!!!!! aint them pretty?"

This is why you never bring timetraveling to your stories if you don't want to mess things up this badly. Also in hindsight, timetraveling expansion doesn't have a single Caverns of Time dungeon. FOR SHAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is the same contradiction as the legendary cloak, the first legendary to demand pvp to obtain, yet also the first legendary that can't be used in pvp at all. Whoever thought that one up needs to be held from the cookie jar for years.

Post by Atik

Wow...

He actually tweeted that.

Holy *!@#. I just got flashbacks to when Riot was all "I can't beleive people actually care about lore."

Post by Morec0

Wow...

He actually tweeted that.

Holy *!@#. I just got flashbacks to when Riot was all "I can't beleive people actually care about lore."

*teeth grinding in nerd fury*

Post by morginar

Once you’ve collected the tomes, it’s time to start Cooking the Books—or at least it would be if Cordana would cooperate and burn them as she should. Sometimes, if you want to get something done though, you’ve got to do it yourself. You’ll have to fight Cordana to stop her from keeping the books and taking your precious, precious ring.

Why Blizzard why? I demand a badass sane Maiev as compensation!

Edit: And Maiev should have a new shiny model.

Post by Rankkor

Well, the spoilers are in about the last fight with Archimonde.

Sad to say this but I have a lot of complaints about that ending (which indeed looks like its wrapping up the WoD storyline)

Okay, so first off, the cinematic. So far nobody has killed archy yet, so the cinematic was in fact datamined and decrypted by a bunch of chinese guys. Because of this, the cinematic is in chinese, with the chinese voice actors.

You can probably find the cinematic on youtube, I'm hesitant to link it for now, because blizzard doesn't seem to want people to watch it before someone actually defeats archy.

I'll link the video here if I see that its okay to do so.

Basically archimonde kneels in pain and agony after his defeat, Gul'dan is standing in front of an open Dark Portal trying to flee, but archimonde will have none of it, and shoots Gul'dan with a lazer from his hand, lifting him up to the air. Gul'dan convulses in pain, but we don't actually "see" him die, he's just flung into the portal, and then the portal explodes. After this, archimonde's eyes (Which normally glow green) go dim, and he collapses on the floor, dead.

As Grom looks on the closed portal, he says that the horde is free again, and the crowds below him cheer. Khadgar however isn't happy, he stares at gul'dan's staff on the ground, which evaporates, and Yrel asks him if he still thinks Gul'dan is alive. Khadgar says that neither Gul'dan, nor his masters are so easily beaten and that this is only the beginning. Yrel pledges herself and her people to help him whenever he needs them, and then Khadgar just turns into a crow and flies away, with Yrel delivering a small monologue about the light.

Here's the actual dialog.

Archimonde:Gul'dan,you signed pact with me!
Gul'dan:NO! *EXPLOSION
Durotan:Finally, it's all over.
Hellscream:Gul'dan was defeated. Now, the horde is free again!
(Khadgar looks at Gul'dan's staff)
Yrel:You think it is not over yet?
Khadgar:Gul'dan and his demon masters are not so easy to be defeated, I'm afraid this is only the beginning.
Yrel:We will help you whenever you need us.
Khadgar:So long till we meet again, look after yourself.
(then he flies away)
Yrel:A wise one used to tell me, the light will let us live forever. The future is ours. We will stand together and rebuild Draenor.

Now, this is an actual cinematic, and normally, raids don't have a cinematic unless they're the last one on the expansion (ICC, DS, SoO, etc) which leads me to believe that indeed, this is the last content patch of WoD, and that the story is wrapped up. There are no more loose ends to take care of, the Iron Horde was defeated in 6.0, what was left of it was split in half between those who followed gul'dan and those who didn't, the ones who became fel died in 6.2, and the ones who refused to join gul'dan, reformed and joined our efforts to beat him.

The Shadow Council seems to be defeated as well, so with no Iron Horde, no Ogre Empire, no Arakkoa, and no Shadow Council, we've effectively run out of baddies to kill.

If this is indeed the wrap-up of the expansion (With future patches laying the groundwork for the next expansion) then I have a lot of problems with how this story turned out.

*incoming rant list*

1: Why didn't Archimonde explode when he died? every high-ranking demon we've killed so far does, and Archy himself did it when we killed him in Warcraft 3, and in wow during Caverns of Time.

2: Why can't blizzard just let us KILL the bad guys? Why put them on ice to use them later? We never see Gul'dan actually dying, so it'll come to no surprise to anyone that he just pulled a Lich King/Garrosh on us, and will come back at some point in the future. This is becoming annoying, 3 times is too much. Its important to note that the portal was green, not red, which means gul'dan was not sent to Main!Azeroth, he was sent.......... somewhere. Naaru-knows where.

3: Why are everyone so quick to forgive and forget Grom? Sure, he's not inherently evil, he had "good" intentions for what he did, and was deceived into doing those actions, but that doesn't change the fact that his deeds caused countless deaths in azeroth and draenor. (I put "Good" in brackets because turning the orcs into warmongering conquerors was in fact not a good thing for him or his people, let alone for the draenei, or the rest of draenor. He was led to believe that it was a good thing, but that's it).

This ties into why I'm so upset with Jaina. Someone just did a set of pretty horrible actions for a semi-justifiable reason, and then they're forgiven by everyone, and treated like victims. Poor Jaina, she lost her city. Poor Grom, he lost his boy. BOO-FRIKETY-HOO!!!!!!!!!! >=( what about all the people that suffered because of them? they don't count?

Seriously, screw this expansion.

>_>

Save the whales.(##RESPBREAK##)520##DELIM##Rankkor##DELIM##

Post by 355559

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Post by Stabhorn

So next expansion: The Underpale? Other continent? Other Azeroth? Or, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, let us go back to our own timeline!

General Lore Discussions

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