General Lore Discussions

Post by Rankkor

There are other examples of cursed people who's progeny remained cursed (Broken Draenei for example, Centaurs for another), as well as orcs passing on the green skin to their kids, and blood elves passing their green eyes to their kids.

Now they tell us that the worgen curse is not hereditary? gimme a break man :S

Post by Adamsm

Because the Worgen curse is different from those; Blood Elves, Orcs and Broken were all affected by Fel taint that caused their problems. The Centaurs are like they are because they went against the natural order of things and the Demi-God cursed them for all existence.

The Worgen Curse though is a misuse of the Pack form mixed with the Scythe of Elune and the Tooth of Goldrinn; unlike those other things, it wasn't meant to be hereditary and is suppose to be like an actual werewolf bite. Considering how many different werewolf things are out there and only a few are blood line curses, it can make sense.

Post by Atik

A curse is a curse, it doesn't affect DNA.

Except, again, it has been stated to effect DNA.

On a celluar level, they are NO LONGER HUMAN. This has been stated multiple times, most notably in Silverpine Forest where their new species prevents the Valkyr from raising them, and was later confirmed by Blizzard.

As Matheus put it, this is a blatant example of "A wizard did it".

Post by Adamsm

Post by Atik

No where did they say 'well their DNA has been altered' all they say is that the Worgen no longer count as humans which is why the Valk's can't use their res-magic on them....you know, just like with Dwarves, Orcs, Trolls, Elves, Tauren, Gnomes, Goblins, Draenei and Pandaren. The Cursed are their own breed now, but the only way to pass it on is through biting or ingesting of Worgen blood.

And do you know what makes Dwarves, Orcs, Trolls, Elves, Tauren, Gnomes, Goblins, Draenei, and Pandaren different from Humans?

Their DNA.

In order for the Worgen to be a different race entirely, they need to be different at the cellular level.

Post by Adamsm

Post by Stabhorn

Even with were-wolves, most don't have children that are affected by their parent's curse. Lupin's son from Harry Potter is a good example of this. It's the same with worgen.

Post by Atik

You're over thinking it Atik. This is a fantasy world where enough infusion of Fel Magic will turn a normal mortal into a Felguard look a like. The Worgen Curse is similar to the idea of werewolves who can only pass it on through biting; no matter how often the afflicted human throws out children, none of those children would be a werewolf without the catalyst of being bitten.

That's also leaving aside the other thing: The original Worgen when they bit, affected all races, not just humans which we saw in Curse of the Worgen. If you need to over think it, then remember that the base for the worgen is the magical transformation into a wolf mixed with the power of a goddess. Since Goddesses do whatever the hell they like, there you go.

I'm the sort of person who likes consistency in these things. Especially since WoW tends to have rather clear-cut rules, opposed to, say, the Harry Potterverse like in Stab's example, which plays much more hard and loose.

Has it been stated Gilneans can only infect humans? I was under thr impression anyone could become a Worgen with the curse, as I said before, altering their DNA into that of a Worgen, their second form existing more akin to a druis' s shapeshifted forms.

Similiarly, with your Fel example, the Fel magic OBVIOUSLY effects their DNA, being that its effects are passed on to offspring in nearly every example we've ever seen.

Post by Adamsm

But it's not altering the DNA; you have that straight from Blizzard. As of Curse of the Worgen, the bites will not affect the other races and it's tied only to humans themselves since the original corruption was cleansed after the return of the Scythe. The Worgen curse is tied into the body of the infected only and will not be passed down through a generational line....just like a standard Werewolf curse.

Edit: In other words, it's not a mutation but an actual magical effect that causes the person to transform into a wolf-man and not the DNA itself.

And you keep using the shapeshifting example....except that is what the Worgen is; the Worgen itself is the shape shift since the original source of power is built on top of the Pack form transformation spell.

Post by Atik

But then, by Blizzards logic, why do they remain Worgen when they die? What makes them Worgen, rather than cursed Humans? What stops Valkyr from raising them?

It simply causes a lot of contradictions. For example, even if a Druid dies in bear form, they go back to being an Elf. If a Worgen dies in Human form, they revert to Worgen. If the Worgen was just the Druid form, we would expect the opposite.

Post by Adamsm

More then likely it's the Worgen Curse that is negating the Valk magic; we know that Worgens can be raised by necromancy after all. As for that; it's a gameplay thing, since there are worgens who died in the comic in the human form and didn't change back to furred form. We've also seen that there are worgens who when they die revert back to human spirits too.

Post by 355559

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Post by Adamsm

It's a curse that was created by a slightly psychotic Druid and a grieving Priestess of the Moon, using a blessed Staff that had been touched by Elune and the Fang of the wild and insane wolf demi-god to create the Scythe that the forsaken wanted as well....which makes sense, since the Scythe apparently forced anyone affected by it to be slavishly loyal to the Alpha.

Of course, since the particular piece of Valk magic doesn't work on anything but humans anyways as long as the target doesn't resonate as a human, that would be all that matters.

Going back to the DNA discussion though, while some think that way, others don't and it is still as simple as a Wizard did it, well Goddess in this case. Blizzard has stated that the Curse only affects the infected and anyone else is fine...but then again, you have to feel sorry for those who have a Worgen spouse, since a love nip would mean a new Worgen in the fold.

Post by Rankkor

At what point would the curse ever have been designed to negate Valkyr magic when the Valkyr didn't exist at that time?

It wasn't designed to negate val'kyr magic. Valks can't ress worgens because they're not human anymore, and their magic only works on humans (and vrykuls who are the precursors to humans). Its the reason the SI:7 Sent non-humans to Pyrewood Village during the Silverpine campaign, because due to not being humans, valks were unable to ress them. And guess what? among those sent, are worgens.

So its completely bonkers that a race that isn't considered human anymore, can still give birth to human children. Specially when their human form is nothing more than an illusion, a disguise to hide their true nature, which is the wolf form.

Post by Adamsm

But it's still a Cursed form and not an actual altering of the race itself; at their core, the standard Gilnean still sees themselves as a human with something extra hiding for the most part.

Post by H3Knuckles

I'm the sort of person who likes consistency in these things. Especially since WoW tends to have rather clear-cut rules, opposed to, say, the Harry Potterverse like in Stab's example, which plays much more hard and loose.

What Warcraft series have you been following? It's always been about rule of cool, and there's been a ton of inconsistencies in the geography, history, how magic works, how time works, in characterization of individuals, and so on and so forth.

Similiarly, with your Fel example, the Fel magic OBVIOUSLY effects their DNA, being that its effects are passed on to offspring in nearly every example we've ever seen.

This also goes to Rankhor; just because it's passed down to kids does not mean it is genetic. If you saturate something with enough radiation, it becomes nuclear waste, dangerous because of the radiation it gives off. There's no reason to believe that the green orcs or blood elves are genetically different, when it's more likely that the unborn children are being altered by exposure to the mother's absorbed fel magic while still in the womb.

Why do blood elves still have green eyes?
Corruption from fel energies takes a long time to wear off. It's why most orcs are still green even though Mannoroth is dead.

This is second-hand (Delterius once looked it up to respond to something I posted) but it demonstrates my point. If fel corruption can fade from someone and take the appearance changes with it, then it is not a genetic change.

Post by Atik

This also goes to Rankhor; just because it's passed down to kids does not mean it is genetic. If you saturate something with enough radiation, it becomes nuclear waste, dangerous because of the radiation it gives off. There's no reason to believe that the green orcs or blood elves are genetically different, when it's more likely that the unborn children are being altered by exposure to the mother's absorbed fel magic while still in the womb.

Radiation actually does damage your genetic code.

Fel, that's what cancer is.

Post by Adamsm

But not all cancer is hereditary.

Post by H3Knuckles

Radiation actually does damage your genetic code.

...I'm not sure if you're being a smart-aleck or you misunderstood my point. ~~I wasn't saying that the manner by which fel magic changes someone is mechanically similar to radiation. I was saying that the way fel magic is transmitted is similar to radiation~~...

Y'know what? Forget it. Bad example. Think of it like those red & black bees in NY that eat the artificially dyed cherry syrup from some factory. If they stop eating the syrup, they'd turn back to normal yellow & black bees eventually. Now imagine if they birthed live young instead of laying eggs; the unborn children would come out red because of the time spent in the mother's womb, being exposed to her diet. But their genes haven't been altered to be red.

Edited to add: I'm only talking about green orcs and blood elves. I don't really have an opinion about Worgen, other than I never felt like it was analogous to the former two's change.

Post by Rankkor

But it's still a Cursed form and not an actual altering of the race itself; at their core, the standard Gilnean still sees themselves as a human with something extra hiding for the most part.

Its irrelevant how they see themselves. They are not human anymore.

Its like Naga and Satyrs still being under the delusion that they're still nightelves, when they're anything but.

If they were still human at all underneath all that fur, the valks would had been able to raise them as undead. But they weren't able to do so, it took regular necromancy from the lich king to create undead worgen.

General Lore Discussions

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