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Post by
Adamsm
Aye Garrosh was there during the original portal building...and since you know, what powers the Draenor portal to Azeroth, it's not that hard to think that it's Garrosh who helped set that up as well.
Post by
cephadex
I really don't mean to be obnoxious and drag this topic out any further, as I suspect I'm the only person who cares about this, but do you think the dragon on the dark portal created by the Iron Horde is Kairoz (see WoW login screen)?
As adamsm said, the original dark portal had a dragon too, and to be fair, absolutely nobody on draenor ever knew Kairoz. Just garrosh, and even then he never saw his draconic form.
The "blueprints" for the dark portal were passed down to Gul'dan by Medivh and he's the one who likely put the dragon on.
I wish I never posted that.... anyway, my point had been that because nobody knew him on draenor maybe it suggested somethign to do with his desire to use inifinite timelines... but never mind,pretend I never said anything....
Post by
Adamsm
Nothing wrong with the comment, since it has now segued into how the Portal was built.
Post by
Stabhorn
Well, how did the original Gul'dan communicate with Medivh? Could the Alternate!Gul'dan have spoken with the Alternate!Medivh before Garrosh interfered?
Post by
cephadex
There's no alternate Medivh, because for all intents and purposes the alternate timeline doesn't necessarily include Azeroth (personally I think this line of thinking is kind of bad, but that's what they're going with).
Post by
Stabhorn
That doesn't make sense; why wouldn't an Alternate!Azeroth exist? Why wouldn't that other Medivh have contacted Gul'dan?
Post by
cephadex
People say that "the alternate timeline only extends to Draenor." I agree this sounds ridiculous; why would it stop at exactly one planet? I get that this alternate timeline isn't exactly the same as ours, so some people say that supposedly "there's no way to know if it also includes Azeroth." Personally, though, I think the likelihood of the alternate timeline being so closely similar to ours that the only differences are in the personalities of some characters/the existence of some characters, is already ridiculously low, just considering the butterfly effect- so it's kind of pointless to say "we don't know if there's also an Azeroth in that timeline."
But that's the "logic" most players are going by, and I don't think it's beneath bliz to go by it, too. Also, I'm not sure why a few years ago people decided an exclamation point is necessary between an adjective and a noun, but I guess by now there's nothing to be done about that.
Post by
Rankkor
As adamsm said, the original dark portal had a dragon too, and to be fair, absolutely nobody on draenor ever knew Kairoz. Just garrosh, and even then he never saw his draconic form.
The "blueprints" for the dark portal were passed down to Gul'dan by Medivh and he's the one who likely put the dragon on.
Since we know nothing about how this Iron Horde Dark Portal was made, and I'd imagine that Garrosh would not know how to build interdimensional portals, can we assume that, somehow, Medivh is involved on the construction of this one too?
Not really, the order of events was different on this timeline than in ours. In ours the orcs were manipulated by Kil'Jaeden into waging war with the draenei, and by the time they drank mannoroth's blood, the war was long over, they had already defeated the draenei, Auchenai had already fallen, Karabor had already fallen, all major and minor cities had already fallen, and the draenei were making their final stand on Shattrath. After the orcs wiped out the last of the draenei in Shattrath, Kil'jaeden left Gul'dan, and then an unspecified amount of years passed, and THEN he was contacted by Medivh who sent him on a vision the blueprints for the dark portal.
This time around it looks like the blood drinking came first, as the orcs had just barely started their war against the draenei, and only minor villages have fallen, but all major cities still stand, and the Dark Portal was already under construction when Grom killed Mannoroth, which goes to show that on this timeline, Gul'dan was contacted by Medivh first, and the orcs were meant to drink the blood from the start, and just hit the fastforward button on their war against the draenei and their invasion of azeroth.
I really don't mean to be obnoxious and drag this topic out any further, as I suspect I'm the only person who cares about this, but do you think the dragon on the dark portal created by the Iron Horde is Kairoz (see WoW login screen)?
As adamsm said, the original dark portal had a dragon too, and to be fair, absolutely nobody on draenor ever knew Kairoz. Just garrosh, and even then he never saw his draconic form.
The "blueprints" for the dark portal were passed down to Gul'dan by Medivh and he's the one who likely put the dragon on.
I wish I never posted that....
Why? Discussion is always good :(
anyway, my point had been that because nobody knew him on draenor maybe it suggested somethign to do with his desire to use inifinite timelines... but never mind,pretend I never said anything....
hmmmm I don't understand......
*scratching head*
People say that "the alternate timeline only extends to Draenor." I agree this sounds ridiculous; why would it stop at exactly one planet? I get that this alternate timeline isn't exactly the same as ours, so some people say that supposedly "there's no way to know if it also includes Azeroth." Personally, though, I think the likelihood of the alternate timeline being so closely similar to ours that the only differences are in the personalities of some characters/the existence of some characters, is already ridiculously low, just considering the butterfly effect- so it's kind of pointless to say "we don't know if there's also an Azeroth in that timeline."
But that's the "logic" most players are going by, and I don't think it's beneath bliz to go by it, too. Also, I'm not sure why a few years ago people decided an exclamation point is necessary between an adjective and a noun, but I guess by now there's nothing to be done about that.
There's no information to suggest that there's not an alternate azeroth, and the exploration of alternate timelines was already done both in books (Thrall: Twilight of the Aspects) And in-game, (Endtime dungeon, Well of Eternity dungeon). And despite the fact that each timeline has an infinite number of variables, they all have the same constant: Orcs invade Azeroth.
That seems to be a grandiose cosmic event that was determined to happen in every single reality, even if the specifics of how or why can and often do change, the fact that they invade seems to be an immutable feature of each timeline.
Plus, while garrosh may have seen the original dark portal when he was a kid, he had no part in its construction (Gul'dan kept the details a secret, even the part where all the peons used were to be sacrified to power it up), and its unlikely he knew how to build it now.
Its not like anyone has google+ on azeroth to look up how to conjure up permanent Gateways to other planets. Gul'dan needed the help of Medivh to do that, and Nerzhul had to send other orcs to steal the book of Medivh AND the skull of gul'dan to gain the same knowledge himself. And Medivh is an exception to the norm because he was both a Guardian of Tirisfal AND was possessed by Sargeras.
In other news: When asked when will we have an alliance villain, and specifically one that isn't mind-controlled or corrupted, or otherwise motivated by old god brainwashing, this is what one of the devs said:
That's a good question. We don't have any in the works right now, but
I think we're overdue for an Alliance villain.
Also, it looks like Garrosh
isn't gonna pull a Kael on us at all.
THANK GOD!!!!!!!!!
I say cremate the corpse, mix the ashes into concrete, build a statue of him with that concrete, then smash the statue again, and scatter the pebbles to the edges of netherstorm.(##RESPBREAK##)520##DELIM##Rankkor##DELIM##
Post by
cephadex
There's no information to suggest that there's not an alternate azeroth, and the exploration of alternate timelines was already done both in books (Thrall: Twilight of the Aspects) And in-game, (Endtime dungeon, Well of Eternity dungeon). And despite the fact that each timeline has an infinite number of variables, they all have the same constant: Orcs invade Azeroth.
The End Time and Well of Eternity dungeons were not alternate timelines; they were actually our timeline, farther back in time (though after the interference on our part, it would have diverged to become a new timeline). But honestly, I think this entire discussion is pointless, because in a true alternate timeline, it's much more likely that the universe will have been dramatically different from ours, and not "very similar but with a few changes."
That seems to be a grandiose cosmic event that was determined to happen in every single reality, even if the specifics of how or why can and often do change, the fact that they invade seems to be an immutable feature of each timeline.
Yes, but this is not because of logic; it's because that's what Blizzard wrote, and they can write anything they want and make it canon. So, the question is, are we trying to speculate according to what seems to make sense, or according to what's consistent with the relatively arbitrary plot elements they came up with? I'm sorry this comes out a bit catty, it's not meant that way but I couldn't think of a better way of putting it.
Regardless, don't get me wrong-- I was never in support of this notion that "the alternate timeline is only limited to Azeroth." I just think the whole reasoning behind what they're doing is so ridiculous and unlikely it almost feels pointless to theorize.
Plus, while garrosh may have seen the original dark portal when he was a kid, he had no part in its construction (Gul'dan kept the details a secret, even the part where all the peons used were to be sacrified to power it up), and its unlikely he knew how to build it now.
Its not like anyone has google+ on azeroth to look up how to conjure up permanent Gateways to other planets. Gul'dan needed the help of Medivh to do that, and Nerzhul had to send other orcs to steal the book of Medivh AND the skull of gul'dan to gain the same knowledge himself. And Medivh is an exception to the norm because he was both a Guardian of Tirisfal AND was possessed by Sargeras.
But it's not the same kind of portal that Medivh 'n friends made in our timeline. This alternate one is a time portal on top of being a space portal, while the one from our timeline wasn't. My understanding is that making a time portal now is a rare and very difficult thing to do, which was why the last vial of eternity was
wasted
used for the one that let Garrosh escape (in War Crimes). Even if, hypothetically,
toddler Garrosh
could have learned how to make the original portal with all its secrets just by virtue of watching, it wouldn't have been the same kind of portal as this one.
hmmmm I don't understand......
*scratching head*
I typed a response because I didn't want to ignore the question, but I'm really not trying to dwell on this:
Suppose hypothetically the dragon on the dark portal had been an entirely new thing this expansion (which was what I previously thought, which is wrong). Now, we know that Garrosh killed Kairoz before he even spoke with the Warsong clan for the first time. We also know that dragons weren't native to Draenor, and that we know of only two who had traveled there now. So, as you said, it's impossible that the Iron Horde would have constructed a portal with the likeness of a dragon on it, where the dragon was in some way related to or based on the Kairoz whom Garrosh had killed.
So, I had originally thought that maybe this suggested the construction of the dragon on the portal was related in some way to another Kairoz, from another timeline, considering before he died he had had an idea to use an infinite number of timelines. And I had thought it was interesting that in the trailer when the dark portal is shown toward the end while under construction, its top part is casually still unbuilt-- but that's just a coincidence, bliz had done so many things that felt like utterly wasted potential to me that I'm really not holding my breath for really cool twists anymore. And this whole thing is based on erroneous knowledge on my part anyway, so feel free to disregard it.
Post by
matheus314
Rankkor, you're just showing off your Mod skills by posting blue trackers and embedded images...
I'm jealous.
Post by
morginar
That's a good question.
We don't have any in the works right now
, but I think we're overdue for an Alliance villain.
Good damnit, well they might start working on it then. Hope it's not Maiev...
Anyone wanna speculate on who is going down the road of raidboss pinata?
My bet is either Varian, Anduin or Jaina. Let's kill some
spotlight stealing
black hole marty/mary sues
.
Post by
matheus314
That's a good question.
We don't have any in the works right now
, but I think we're overdue for an Alliance villain.
Anyone wanna speculate on who is going down the road of raidboss pinata?
Thrall.
Post by
morginar
That's a good question.
We don't have any in the works right now
,
but I think we're overdue for an
Alliance villain
.
Anyone wanna speculate on who is going down the road of raidboss pinata?Thrall.
I don't think Go'el/Thrall is Alliance, sorry.
Post by
matheus314
I don't think Go'el/Thrall is Alliance, sorry.
*Points at Cataclysm expansion*
OK. Jokes aside, I don't see neither Varian, Anduin or Jaina go evil (ok, maybe Jaina, if she end up being pushed too far). But what I'd like to see is another Proudmoore in the horizon... *hint hint*
Post by
Rankkor
There's no information to suggest that there's not an alternate azeroth, and the exploration of alternate timelines was already done both in books (Thrall: Twilight of the Aspects) And in-game, (Endtime dungeon, Well of Eternity dungeon). And despite the fact that each timeline has an infinite number of variables, they all have the same constant: Orcs invade Azeroth.
The End Time and Well of Eternity dungeons were not alternate timelines;
Yes they were.
they were actually our timeline, farther back in time (though after the interference on our part, it would have diverged to become a new timeline).
Nope, Endtime was an alternate timeline where the old gods won and azeroth was destroyed. THAT is the timeline that spawned Murozond, the warped version of Nozdormu. The book Twilight of the Aspects showed that alternate timelines still continue existing despite what changes we make or stop making on our own timeline.
And Well of Eternity was quite different in many many ways from our timeline as well. For starters Illidan was in the palace fighting demons, when in our timeline he originally wasn't. On our timeline Illidan never fought Mannoroth at all, and Varo'then died when Malfurion took him out. There are many many many inconsistencies between what unfolds on that dungeon, and what actually happens on the original backstory as explained in the warcraft 3 manual, and the War of the Ancients trilogy of books.
Those two dungeons were set in alternate timelines that had nothing to do with our own.
But honestly, I think this entire discussion is pointless, because in a true alternate timeline, it's much more likely that the universe will have been dramatically different from ours, and not "very similar but with a few changes."
Its more than likely that there are indeed universes that are dramatically different than ours. That's the nature of infinite timelines. In timeline A arthas becomes an obsessed madman that brings his own kingdom to ruin, whereas in Timeline B he marries Jaina and has a child with her (Again, this happens on the book Twilight of the Aspects).
Some timelines have superficial changes (Example, the timeline of the Well of Eternity dungeon, things happened differently there than in canon, but the outcome was mostly the same) while others have incredibly drastic changes that make them vastly different from our own (Example: The timeline in Twilight of the Aspects were Thrall died as a baby, Blackmoore sobered up, killed Doomhammer, used the orcs and mercenaries to take over lordaeron and crowned himself king, and Arthas fled to stormwind with Jaina and got married with her and had a baby named Uther Menethil. VERY different from our own IMO)
That seems to be a grandiose cosmic event that was determined to happen in every single reality, even if the specifics of how or why can and often do change, the fact that they invade seems to be an immutable feature of each timeline.
Yes, but this is not because of logic; it's because that's what Blizzard wrote, and they can write anything they want and make it canon. So, the question is, are we trying to speculate according to what seems to make sense, or according to what's consistent with the relatively arbitrary plot elements they came up with? I'm sorry this comes out a bit catty, it's not meant that way but I couldn't think of a better way of putting it.
That's actually a pretty common theme on stories that involve time travel, and alternate timelines. Like there can be a billion different variations of the same timeline, but they all have a few elements that are immutable and "meant" to happen no matter what.
On Bioshock Infinite, no matter what else ends up happening, there is a man entering a lighthouse to rescue a girl.
On Dragon Ball Z, there are always 2 androids that cause destruction and devastation (in some timelines they're stopped, in others, they're not)
On Warcraft, orcs always invade Azeroth, and Nozdormu always ends up corrupted in the far off future. Etc. It helps to have some degree of consistency among the chaos.
Regardless, don't get me wrong-- I was never in support of this notion that "the alternate timeline is only limited to Azeroth." I just think the whole reasoning behind what they're doing is so ridiculous and unlikely it almost feels pointless to theorize.
Well yeah, that theory that on Alternate!Draenor there is no alternate azeroth is absurd. Of course there is an alternate Azeroth. I wasn't suggesting you proposed that theory (Specially when on the first post you mentioned it you stated how it came from others)
Plus, while garrosh may have seen the original dark portal when he was a kid, he had no part in its construction (Gul'dan kept the details a secret, even the part where all the peons used were to be sacrified to power it up), and its unlikely he knew how to build it now.
Its not like anyone has google+ on azeroth to look up how to conjure up permanent Gateways to other planets. Gul'dan needed the help of Medivh to do that, and Nerzhul had to send other orcs to steal the book of Medivh AND the skull of gul'dan to gain the same knowledge himself. And Medivh is an exception to the norm because he was both a Guardian of Tirisfal AND was possessed by Sargeras.
But it's not the same kind of portal that Medivh 'n friends made in our timeline.
Yes it is. Don't you see how identical they look?
This alternate one is a time portal on top of being a space portal, while the one from our timeline wasn't.
Yeah but that is less to do with the portal, and more to do with the Shard of Time that garrosh has (the one he shanked Kairoz with). The original Dark Portal was fueled by warlock magic, and blood sacrifices, and the "conduit" as it were to link Draenor with Azeroth, came from Medivh who was channeling the spell from Azeroth. In other words, it took the effort of two casters to create the link, One caster in Azeroth (Medivh) and one caster in Draenor (Gul'dan).
On this alternate timeline, Medivh may have given Gul'dan the blueprints for the portal, but they never got the chance to work together, mainly because Gul'dan was now a prisoner. Instead, the effort was made between one caster on draenor (Gul'dan) and a shard imbued with time-controlling magic linked to OUR azeroth (Shard of Time) which is how the Dark Portal from Alternate!Draenor was linked to Main!Azeroth.
My understanding is that making a time portal now is a rare and very difficult thing to do, which was why the last vial of eternity was
wasted
used for the one that let Garrosh escape (in War Crimes).
Wait what? Vial of Eternity? as in, the ones Illidan created by taking water from the original Well of Eternity? What do those have to do with anything?
He escaped via using the Vision of Time, an artifact we helped Kairoz create on the Timeless Isle, and is unrelated to the well of eternity.
Also Time Portals are not that difficult to make if you have the right artifacts. With the Vision of Time, they're pretty easy to make.
Even if, hypothetically,
toddler Garrosh
could have learned how to make the original portal with all its secrets just by virtue of watching, it wouldn't have been the same kind of portal as this one.
That's because he didn't. Garrosh doesn't know how to make a dark portal. The one who does is Gul'dan. And Gul'dan knows because Medivh told him how. This is what disproves the "There is no Azeroth on the Alternate timeline we visit in WoD" theory. If there was no Alternate!Azeroth on the WoD timeline, then where the hell did Gul'dan manage to get the knowledge to build the dark portal in the first place?
Hell, the very plan to turn the Dark Portal into a Time Portal isn't even Garrosh's idea either. Kairoz was the one who told him that the Vision of Time could be used to return to our timeline. So he put 2 and 2 together and correctly assumed that mixing the Vision of Time he has with the Dark Portal would create a Time Portal.
(On a side-note, that image is pretty damned funny :P)
Rankkor, you're just showing off your Mod skills by posting blue trackers and embedded images...
I'm jealous.
But...... I was able to do that even before being a mod
(By being a localizer)
That's a good question.
We don't have any in the works right now
, but I think we're overdue for an Alliance villain.
Good damnit, well they might start working on it then. Hope it's not Maiev...
Anyone wanna speculate on who is going down the road of raidboss pinata?
My bet is either Varian, Anduin or Jaina. Let's kill some
spotlight stealing
black hole marty/mary sues
.
I'm hoping its Jaina. And Vereesa. I have some scores to settle with that human....... witch.
Frankly, the way she channeled Grima Wormtongue on the SoO ending cinematic, it wouldn't surprise me.
Post by
morginar
I'm hoping its Jaina. And Vereesa. I have some scores to settle with that human....... witch.
Frankly, the way she channeled Grima Wormtongue on the SoO ending cinematic, it wouldn't surprise me.
Siege of Dalaran has a nice ring to it no?
And it would please me to kill Vereesas twins (prefebly before her eyes) twin emperor style, super aged and buffed ofc. Just want to finish some lose ends in Rhonins bloodline.
And Well of Eternity was quite different in many many ways from our timeline as well. For starters Illidan was in the palace fighting demons, when in our timeline he originally wasn't. On our timeline Illidan never fought Mannoroth at all, and Varo'then died when Malfurion took him out. There are many many many inconsistencies between what unfolds on that dungeon, and what actually happens on the original backstory as explained in the warcraft 3 manual, and the War of the Ancients trilogy of books. Doesn't the WoA triology take place in another timeline asweel due to timetravelers? Kinda got that feeling with Hakkar being killed in dalaran in main timeline but redhair killed Hakkar in nowhere kalimdor.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but in Yogg-Sarons mind vision thing wasn't Nozdurmu present when they made the dragon soul when in WoA, he was not.
Post by
Adamsm
The Well of Eternity we went to was the one where Krasus, Rhonin and Brox didn't screw with; the original time line there. End Time is the End of all Time lines which leads to the death of Nozdormu.
Post by
cephadex
And it would please me to kill Vereesas twins (prefebly before her eyes) twin emperor style, super aged and buffed ofc. Just want to finish some lose ends in Rhonins bloodline.
Nooo... in my mind they were gonna grow up to be hot like Elrond and Elros... who in my mind were hot...
I don't think Go'el/Thrall is Alliance, sorry.
He might as well be.
To be honest, this discussion is getting a bit much for me, sorry, I'm compelled to just step aside after this post.
The Well of Eternity we went to was the one where Krasus, Rhonin and Brox didn't screw with.
This is true.
Its more than likely that there are indeed universes that are dramatically different than ours. That's the nature of infinite timelines. In timeline A arthas becomes an obsessed madman that brings his own kingdom to ruin, whereas in Timeline B he marries Jaina and has a child with her (Again, this happens on the book Twilight of the Aspects).
Yes, I'm aware that if there are infinite universes, then there will be universes with only minute changes from ours. But the fact that bliz continuously presents alternate universes as having only minor changes from ours as opposed to being radically different gives the impression that supposedly this is what 'alternate universe' means in general, while in actuality it would be extremely rare to find a universe that is completely the same except for trivial little changes.
That's actually a pretty common theme on stories that involve time travel, and alternate timelines. Like there can be a billion different variations of the same timeline, but they all have a few elements that are immutable and "meant" to happen no matter what.
Somehow I knew you'd say that, but the fact that it's common only contributes to the assumption that this is what
alternate universe
would commonly mean, when it isn't.
On Warcraft, orcs always invade Azeroth, and Nozdormu always ends up corrupted in the far off future. Etc. It helps to have some degree of consistency among the chaos.
The Nozdormu thing is actually very specific to him, he'd actually proven that there was no way to change his own future demise because it is that way in every conceivable timeline.
Alternate!Draenor
Et tu, Rankkor?
But it's not the same kind of portal that Medivh 'n friends made in our timeline.
Yes it is. Don't you see how identical they look?
You're not seriously saying that because they look similar they must be the same?
This alternate one is a time portal on top of being a space portal, while the one from our timeline wasn't.
Yeah but that is less to do with the portal, and more to do with the Shard of Time that garrosh has (the one he shanked Kairoz with).
If all Kairoz needed to create a time portal was using a shard from the Vision in Time, he wouldn't have made us get him stones every week on the Timeless Isle: forget being able to glimpse at certain future events, if that thing can be used for actual time travel, that's much better. Even if eventually the portal was made by someone other than him, he did originally have a plan to create a time-and-space portal from old Draenor to present-day Azeroth, which would have been way easier for him to do if the Vision in Time could have been used for that.
Alternate!Draenor Main!Azeroth.
y u do this
Wait what? Vial of Eternity? as in, the ones Illidan created by taking water from the original Well of Eternity? What do those have to do with anything?
He escaped via using the Vision of Time, an artifact we helped Kairoz create on the Timeless Isle, and is unrelated to the well of eternity.
We didn't help create the vision in time. We helped provide fuel for its use. Presumably Kairoz killed Soridormi in one of the visions (though I don't think he actually did), and she had the last vial of eternity (yes, Illidan's one, of the last remaining two that we got after killing Kael'thas and Vashj, one of which was used to get to the Hyjal Summit raid).
Also Time Portals are not that difficult to make if you have the right artifacts. With the Vision of Time, they're pretty easy to make.
Yeah they are, that was Kairoz's whole motive. The bronze dragonflight had lost their ability to travel freely and see freely in time. If it was that easy to create time portals now, he wouldn't have needed to use the vision in time to glimpse at random events in the future. More importantly, he wouldn't have been that intently driven to restore the time-travel abilities bronze dragons no longer have.
Even if, hypothetically,
toddler Garrosh
could have learned how to make the original portal with all its secrets just by virtue of watching, it wouldn't have been the same kind of portal as this one.
That's because he didn't. Garrosh doesn't know how to make a dark portal. The one who does is Gul'dan. And Gul'dan knows because Medivh told him how. This is what disproves the "There is no Azeroth on the Alternate timeline we visit in WoD" theory. If there was no Alternate!Azeroth on the WoD timeline, then where the hell did Gul'dan manage to get the knowledge to build the dark portal in the first place?
See, this is what I meant when I say there's an inconsistency between what I say and what you interpret me to say. I never implied Garrosh knows how to make a portal. I was making the point that even if it were somehow possible that he did (which I know he didn't), that's irrelevant because it's not the same kind of portal. But I'm tired of arguing about that.
(On a side-note, that image is pretty damned funny :P)
It's great, there was one of Varian and Anduin too, and one of Deathwing and Wrathion.
I'm hoping its Jaina. And Vereesa. I have some scores to settle with that human....... witch.
Lor'themar, is that you? On a serious note, I hope it's not Jaina. While it would be good if it were her because for once there would be a villain with at least a reasonable motive for being upset, I really like her and don't want her gone from the game after she's killed. Also I didn't like the way they depicted her being upset, her personality gave off a stereotypical villain who relishes in being evil, rather than someone who's had the last straw and just went completely angry. It felt almost too deliberately like "oh, you didn't see that coming, did you? She was so unrealistically nice, and now she's on the other end of the spectrum!"
ps. I hope you're not upset that I said I like Jaina, after she kicked the Sunreavers out of Dalaran. Don't get me wrong, I love Rommath and his loathing of the Kirin Tor, and I love Lor'themar, I just think Jaina is a good character. Besides, much as I like Lor'themar, he did kick people out of Quel'thalas if they didn't accept Illidan's methods of acquiring magic from living things. Presumably it was because he said he couldn't rule over a divided people, but it still sucks considering those high elves had fought and lost loved ones in the war just the same as the rest of them, then had to face being banished. So, his hands aren't entirely clean.
Post by
matheus314
And it would please me to kill Vereesas twins
I guess Sylvannas would love to have a (s)word on that specific matter with you...
Post by
morginar
And it would please me to kill Vereesas twins
I guess Sylvannas would love to have a (s)word on that specific matter with you...
If she is half as evil as people think she is then brutal murder is no biggie.
Chatoic evil FTW!
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