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Post by
Rankkor
Actually, Greymane left the Alliance because a whole load of his people died in the wars
"A whole load"? dude, they were the one nation in the alliance that BARELY participated in the war. He intended to use the alliance as a meat-shield to protect his own borders, while barely giving any contributions to the war, both in men and money. His was the nation with the fewest participation and the paltry amount of men he lend for the war, was barely token support.
who he loved unlike some other leaders
Right, that's why he decided to lock them up whether they like it or not (and as seen by the CIVIL WAR, a good chunk of his kingdom didn't wanted to be locked away from the rest of the world, effectively being held prisoners in their own lands. Forever. Them, their children, and their children's children.)
with the Orcs and the Alliance kept on asking for more and more while giving nothing back
Giving nothing back? how about KEEPING HIS BORDERS SAFE? Thanks to the alliance, not a single orc set foot in gilneas, the one human nation that not once saw the horrors of war, unlike lordaeron, stormwind, quel'thalas, alterac, dalaran and stromgarde. The only other nation that didn't had a single orc set foot on it was Kul'tiras, but they, unlike gilneas DID contributed BIG time to the war with their entire fleet, of which they lost many many MANY men to the war.
The gilneans send a single squad, and after the war was over, their kingdom being the least damaged, they decided to pack their marbles and GTFO.
"Giving nothing back" my ass. Gilneas owed the alliance a lot for keeping them safe and comfy in their borders while the rest of the world came this close to the apocalypse.
and were raising taxes to pay for the wars they had which would affect his people and make them poorer and more tired as they had to work harder.
"The wars they had" see, this is why I call them snobby bastards, they reluctantly joined the war at the final hour only when they saw the orcs kinda-sorta-semi close to their lands, contributed only with a very tiny sum, and then distanced themselves from the whole thing, dismissing it as "someone else's problems" completely ignoring that if the rest of the nations hadn't given their lives to win the war, gilneas would had been annihilated. And I assure you, Gilneas alone vs the horde =
Curb Stomp Battle.
Post by
morginar
Kul-Tiras*
The place is not in the game yet, and there is not much lore to it either. If for example the Dragon Isles map from WC 2 was used and portrayed as a part of Kul-Tiras and has/had dragonmaw on it. Then horde have set a foot on the land.
Post by
Snake387
Right, that's why he decided to lock them up whether they like it or not (and as seen by the CIVIL WAR, a good chunk of his kingdom didn't wanted to be locked away from the rest of the world, effectively being held prisoners in their own lands. Forever. Them, their children, and their children's children.)
IIRC civil war happened because Crowley's lands couldn't be covered by the wall and Crowley loved the Allaince of Lordaeron.
"A whole load"? dude, they were the one nation in the alliance that BARELY participated in the war. He intended to use the alliance as a meat-shield to protect his own borders, while barely giving any contributions to the war, both in men and money. His was the nation with the fewest participation and the paltry amount of men he lend for the war, was barely token support.
Ok, maybe not much but the point still remains that a) he never wanted to be in the Alliance anyway and he didn't use the other Alliance forces as a meat shield deliberately as such. He genuinely thought that his army could protect them.
"Giving nothing back" my ass. Gilneas owed the alliance a lot for keeping them safe and comfy in their borders while the rest of the world came this close to the apocalypse.
From Greymane's perspective they gave nothing back but dead gilneans.
The gilneans send a single squad, and after the war was over, their kingdom being the least damaged, they decided to pack their marbles and GTFO.
Would you like it if as a leader you had to pay taxes for internment camps that if the other leaders weren't stupid like Varian in the siege shouldn't exist?
"The wars they had" see, this is why I call them snobby bastards, they reluctantly joined the war at the final hour only when they saw the orcs kinda-sorta-semi close to their lands,
The Gilneans sent there small force when the Allaince of Lordaeron asked, sure they were being greedy having relationships somewhat improved while having minimal casualties but any decent leader actually cares about his people first. And Greymane didn't want to be part of the Allif Lordaeron anyway, he only did so because Crowley wanted to and the other Barons spoke sense.
Post by
Stabhorn
I'm going to say it now and you guys can laugh and rub it in my face if it never happens, but I guess that these guys are coming back;
1. Illidan Stormrage
2. Sinestra
3. C'Thun
4. Y'Shaarj
5. Ragnaros
6. Archimonde
7. Yogg-Saron
8. Mannoroth
9. Medivh
Post by
Adamsm
1. Illidan StormrageOh please no.
2. SinestraShe can't, there isn't anything left to bring back.
3. C'ThunProbably not.
4. Y'ShaarjIs completely dead; the destruction of the Heart destroyed it utterly and wiped out the Sha as well.
5. RagnarosWe killed him in the Firelands specifically so he can't come back, as the Lords can only be killed in their home realms for good.
6. ArchimondeIs not a Dreadlord; and was reduced to nothing but bones, so really doubt it.
7. Yogg-SaronProbably not.
8. MannorothIs not a Dreadlord; Garrosh pulled his corpse apart after all.
. MedivhIs not dead; but does not have any powers left and just wants to be left alone.
Post by
Stabhorn
1. Illidan StormrageOh please no.
2. SinestraShe can't, there isn't anything left to bring back.
3. C'ThunProbably not.
4. Y'ShaarjIs completely dead; the destruction of the Heart destroyed it utterly and wiped out the Sha as well.
5. RagnarosWe killed him in the Firelands specifically so he can't come back, as the Lords can only be killed in their home realms for good.
6. ArchimondeIs not a Dreadlord; and was reduced to nothing but bones, so really doubt it.
7. Yogg-SaronProbably not.
8. MannorothIs not a Dreadlord; Garrosh pulled his corpse apart after all.
. MedivhIs not dead; but does not have any powers left and just wants to be left alone.
Old Gods can't die.
I have never had the opportunity of running anything but lfr and what I can solo, so all I had of her death was the model viewer :(
Also, not at you specifically, but I laugh whenever someone says 'Y'Shaarj is completely dead,' simply because Blizzard posted everywhere that 'Y'Shaarj is very, very dead' and then all of the sudden 'Whoops; there's his heart! Guess he's not all the way dead after all, lol! Who would have guessed that?'
Lol. Also; who's to say that its only the Dreadlords that cannot die? Does the Burning Legion really have the military might to crush thousands of planets that are as powerful (and perhaps more so,) that Azeroth? Or is Sargeras or the Dreadords able to regenerate fallen demons? If the next expansion focuses on the Burning Legion, I'm super excited.
Yea, I knew Medivh wasn't dead; I just think he's going to return again. Good point for Mannoroth; hmm...
As for Ragnaros, this is purely speculation here; but I have reason to believe that there is a way for him to return again. One; when Prince Thunderaan perished at the hands of Ragnaros, his essence was consumed, but a tiny part of him persisted in an amulet; from which he could be reborn. As such, I would think it odd that when Ragnaros saw that all of his armies failed to destroy the Avengers of Hyjal, that he wouldn't have prepared a contingency plan, should all have gone wrong. Two; atleast one part of him did survive, his heart which was bound to Dragonwrath. Three; a quote from after Ragnaros' death;
Ragnaros yells: No, noooo- This was to be my hour of triumph...
Malfurion Stormrage yells: It is finished then!
Cenarius yells: Perhaps...
Post by
Adamsm
Also, not at you specifically, but I laugh whenever someone says 'Y'Shaarj is completely dead,' simply because Blizzard posted everywhere that 'Y'Shaarj is very, very dead' and then all of the sudden 'Whoops; there's his heart! Guess he's not all the way dead after all, lol! Who would have guessed that?'Um...Yeah, no it's confirmed that Y'Shaarj is gone completely and will never return to threaten Azeroth again. You see that when you return to the Vale with Lorewalker Cho after the final fight with Garrosh, where he
straight up tells you that the Seven Headed One is gone forever, and with It's taint gone, so to are the Sha, never to return.
Lol. Also; who's to say that its only the Dreadlords that cannot die? Does the Burning Legion really have the military might to crush thousands of planets that are as powerful (and perhaps more so,) that Azeroth? Or is Sargeras or the Dreadords able to regenerate fallen demons? If the next expansion focuses on the Burning Legion, I'm super excited.We are told that the Dreadlords who are defeated on Azeroth merely return to the Nether...but only the Dreadlords. All other Legion races are mortal and can be killed, including the higher ups. So yes, since there isn't anything to revive in the case of Archimonde and Mannoroth, you won't see them back.
As for Ragnaros, this is purely speculation here; but I have reason to believe that there is a way for him to return again. One; when Prince Thunderaan perished at the hands of Ragnaros, his essence was consumed, but a tiny part of him persisted in an amulet; from which he could be reborn. As such, I would think it odd that when Ragnaros saw that all of his armies failed to destroy the Avengers of Hyjal, that he wouldn't have prepared a contingency plan, should all have gone wrong. Two; atleast one part of him did survive, his heart which was bound to Dragonwrath. Three; a quote from after Ragnaros' death; Cenarius, Malfurion and Haarmul were there; they tell you point blank that the Firelord is dead and will not be returning. Run Firelands Heroic and you'll see.
Post by
Stabhorn
Also, not at you specifically, but I laugh whenever someone says 'Y'Shaarj is completely dead,' simply because Blizzard posted everywhere that 'Y'Shaarj is very, very dead' and then all of the sudden 'Whoops; there's his heart! Guess he's not all the way dead after all, lol! Who would have guessed that?'Um...Yeah, no it's confirmed that Y'Shaarj is gone completely and will never return to threaten Azeroth again. You see that when you return to the Vale with Lorewalker Cho after the final fight with Garrosh, where he
straight up tells you that the Seven Headed One is gone forever, and with It's taint gone, so to are the Sha, never to return.
I'm just saying that Lorewalker Cho doesn't, can't, know for sure. He is merely assuming that Y'Shaarj is gone, (though the sha probably are.) Now if Norushen or Ra-den said that the Old God was dead, then I would be convinced. (And yes, I know Norushen is dead.)
As for you other answers; I cannot combat, these are just my guesses.
Post by
Adamsm
Yes...but remember something, Lorewalker Cho speaks for Blizzard. So yes, an Old God has died....again; since the Titan Forger team killed It the first time; all that was left was the Echo in the Heart.
Post by
oneforthemoney
Yes...but remember something, Lorewalker Cho speaks for Blizzard. So yes, an Old God has died....again; since the Titan Forger team killed It the first time; all that was left was the Echo in the Heart.
That always pestered me that the heart would have merely been locked up when destroying it was a viable option. I understand that it was necessary for the whole of the expansion to work, yet it still doesn't make sense that the Titans would do so, unless the waters themselves somehow made it mortal and the Forger Team were unaware of that possibility.
Either way, it remains to me a major writing fumble.
Post by
Stabhorn
Maybe they were afraid what would happen if they truly killed him?
Post by
Adamsm
It may not have been 'alive' when they locked it up; they could have just thought it was inert, but after watching the corpse of the Old One spew forth a miasma that ended up creating the Sha, they didn't want to risk something else popping out of the Heart if they destroyed it.
Post by
oneforthemoney
It may not have been 'alive' when they locked it up; they could have just thought it was inert, but after watching the corpse of the Old One spew forth a miasma that ended up creating the Sha, they didn't want to risk something else popping out of the Heart if they destroyed it.
Which really makes it somewhat ironic that apparently killing an old god completely just solves the problem.
Post by
Adamsm
Aye...but then we wouldn't have the expansion /shrug
Post by
Stabhorn
It's like when they thought they killed C'Thun; they didn't want to risk destroying what they thought was a body. (Although the Heart was truly dead when it was locked away.)
Post by
Adamsm
They didn't kill C'thun; It was one of the sealed ones. Since the reveal of Y'Shaarj, we know now who died back then during the Ordering story.
Post by
Rankkor
Right, that's why he decided to lock them up whether they like it or not (and as seen by the CIVIL WAR, a good chunk of his kingdom didn't wanted to be locked away from the rest of the world, effectively being held prisoners in their own lands. Forever. Them, their children, and their children's children.)
IIRC civil war happened because Crowley's lands couldn't be covered by the wall and Crowley loved the Allaince of Lordaeron.
You remember poorly. The civil war happened because guess what, the prospect of being a prisoner in your own land wasn't very pleasing to most people.
"A whole load"? dude, they were the one nation in the alliance that BARELY participated in the war. He intended to use the alliance as a meat-shield to protect his own borders, while barely giving any contributions to the war, both in men and money. His was the nation with the fewest participation and the paltry amount of men he lend for the war, was barely token support.
Ok, maybe not much but the point still remains that a) he never wanted to be in the Alliance anyway and he didn't use the other Alliance forces as a meat shield deliberately as such. He genuinely thought that his army could protect them.
And that's why he's a snobby bastard, if he genuely was deluded enough to think his sole nation could do what
ELEVEN
other kingdoms could barely do working together, remember that the coalition of seven human kingdoms along with two dwarf kingdoms and one elven kingdom and one gnomish kingdom, only really won against the horde because of their infighting, if gul'dan hadn't backstabbed doomhammer, the horde would had crushed ELEVEN united kingdoms. And Greymane thinks his own kingdom is stronger than everyone else put together.
If that's not a snobby bastard I dunno what is.
"Giving nothing back" my ass. Gilneas owed the alliance a lot for keeping them safe and comfy in their borders while the rest of the world came this close to the apocalypse.
From Greymane's perspective they gave nothing back but dead gilneans.
That's why he's a snobby bastard, they gave back security for his kingdom. His nation alone was the only one that didn't had a single orc set foot in it.
The gilneans send a single squad, and after the war was over, their kingdom being the least damaged, they decided to pack their marbles and GTFO.
Would you like it if as a leader you had to pay taxes for internment camps that if the other leaders weren't stupid like Varian in the siege shouldn't exist?
o_O what the frick are you talking about man? Varian was 8 years old when his kingdom was sieged, how does that makes him stupid? (Holy crap :S I'm defending varian, who would have thought?)
"The wars they had" see, this is why I call them snobby bastards, they reluctantly joined the war at the final hour only when they saw the orcs kinda-sorta-semi close to their lands,
The Gilneans sent there small force when the Allaince of Lordaeron asked, sure they were being greedy having relationships somewhat improved while having minimal casualties but any decent leader actually cares about his people first. And Greymane didn't want to be part of the Allif Lordaeron anyway, he only did so because Crowley wanted to and the other Barons spoke sense.
That's not a decent leader, that's a "all take, no give" leader who didn't worked as a team with his allies. And he joined the alliance because he actually got scared orcs would invade his lands. In the battle of southshore he insisted the entire alliance host diverted to his borders to secure them rather than..... you know....... prevent hte orcs from even entering the northern kingdoms.
Post by
Snake387
o_O what the frick are you talking about man? Varian was 8 years old when his kingdom was sieged, how does that makes him stupid? (Holy crap :S I'm defending varian, who would have thought?)
The Varian in the siege. The one who didn't listen to Jaina's advice. The one who'll end up crying when another war happens.
That's not a decent leader, that's a "all take, no give" leader who didn't worked as a team with his allies. And he joined the alliance because he actually got scared orcs would invade his lands. In the battle of southshore he insisted the entire alliance host diverted to his borders to secure them rather than..... you know....... prevent hte orcs from even entering the northern kingdoms.
Have you read his short story? If not, here it is, it explains it all:
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/game/lore/leader-story/genn-greymane/1
If that's not a snobby bastard I dunno what is.
Well a snobby bastard is someone who is born illegitimately and is snobby. If you want the literal meaning of it.
That's why he's a snobby bastard, they gave back security for his kingdom. His nation alone was the only one that didn't had a single orc set foot in it.
And that is what I call good leadership for his people. Just like what Sylvanas does with the dead is good in a military sense. He didn't make any of his civilians suffer at all, and not a whole lot of his army as well.
And that's why he's a snobby bastard, if he genuely was deluded enough to think his sole nation could do what ELEVEN other kingdoms could barely do working together, remember that the coalition of seven human kingdoms along with two dwarf kingdoms and one elven kingdom and one gnomish kingdom, only really won against the horde because of their infighting, if gul'dan hadn't backstabbed doomhammer, the horde would had crushed ELEVEN united kingdoms. And Greymane thinks his own kingdom is stronger than everyone else put together.
Did Greymane know that they were crushing the Alliance when he chose to just send a lone squad? No. And he thought his army could protect his civilians, yes because Gilneans are known for being proud and stubborn, plus his father taught him to be independent.
You remember poorly. The civil war happened because guess what, the prospect of being a prisoner in your own land wasn't very pleasing to most people.
Your source for this is where?
Post by
Adamsm
Curse of the Worgen, and the short story you just linked.
Post by
Snake387
Curse of the Worgen, and the short story you just linked.
The short story states that he was influential, couldn't be hard for him to amass an army. And there would always be those that could have favored the Alliance.
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