General Lore Discussions

Post by Atik

Post by Rankkor

Once again; this is Garrosh first hard offensive against the Twilight's Hammer. He's probably just been thinking of them as a secluded crazy cult up until now.

Fel, we as the PC's didn't even have reason to think there would be so many Twilight Dragons. Up until then, how many do you really see through questing? A handful in Hyjal (Which Garrosh probably had no idea about) which we shred to pieces, as far as I remember. Then, heading into Twilight Highlands, we find out that Grim Batol is TEEMING with them.

Having so little experiance with the cult itself before TH, Garrosh literally had no reason to expect such forces.

As Yoda said: And this, is why he failed.

A true Commander in Chief comes ready for everything. His overconfidence and bravado costed A LOT of lives. His ignorance is a poor excuse for his failure.

We as players know that the Twilight Hammer has Twilight Dragons, since we saw them on the Ruby Sanctum. And we're headed to the place that is their headquarters, a place with so many twilight hammer troops that its called the Twilight Highlands. Expecting at least a few dragon attacks is well within reason. Therefore removing all escorts to kill a rather minor target is an unexcusable and absolutely stupid mistake. War or no War.

Smarter move would had been to get a beach-head on the highlands and THEN go look for the enemy, once the carriers were unloaded, once a secure foothold was obtained.

So yes, he punched a dragon in the face, but he did that, after proving he's a pathetic and sad excuse of a Commander in Chief, and showing that the TRUE brains behind the Northrend campaign was Saurfang, and that without him, the horde would had never even made it to icecrown with that bonehead at the helm.

Post by Atik

I repeat that the Twilight's Hammer is a cult that wants to destroy the world.

Imagine that a moment. A group of nutjobs that says they're going to bring on the apocalypse. Do you think, IRL, and world leaders would take them seriously?

Add to that the fact that we had simply been stomping the Twilights ever since the pre-cata event, and it seems even more rediculous to expect heavy resistance.

Walking into that, and knowing that they're just as hostile as the psycho cult, the Alliance honestly seems like it could have been called a much bigger threat at such a moment.

Post by Rankkor

I repeat that the Twilight's Hammer is a cult that wants to destroy the world.

Imagine that a moment. A group of nutjobs that says they're going to bring on the apocalypse. Do you think, IRL, and world leaders would take them seriously?

They would if they had already shown what they can do, and the twilight hammer did. Remember Ruby Sanctum?

they weren't just a crazy cult, they were THE crazy cult, with powers significant enough to rend aside the world, and an army of dragons that we already saw on the Ruby Sanctum.

If IRL a group of nutjobs says they're gonna bring the apocalypse, and then they successfully lead an assault on the pentagon with tanks, helicopters, troops, and bombers, you bet your ass world leaders would take them seriously. Competent world leaders at least.

No matter how you try to slice it, the actions of garrosh were incredibly stupid, Even the goblin captain lampshaded how it would take an idiot to leave troop carriers undefended. You also need to consider that they were invading the turf of the wildhammer dwarves, a race that has a TREMENDOUS aerial superiority with their gryphons which the horde HAS faced before. Which only makes his decision to leave the fleet defenseless all the more stupid.

Post by Atik

They would if they had already shown what they can do, and the twilight hammer did. Remember Ruby Sanctum?

Which got shut down before they could even do much of anything? And, assuming that the people saving it lore-wise were Dragons, rather than us as the players, it's entirely possible that only the Dragons of Wyrmrest even know anything happened.

they weren't just a crazy cult, they were THE crazy cult, with powers significant enough to rend aside the world, and an army of dragons that we already saw on the Ruby Sanctum.

"Army" is a gracious term for the rather small amount of Twilights we saw amongst all the things leading up to TH. And like I said above, it's entirely possible noone even really knows about Ruby Sanctum. AND, the Twilights only real demonstration of power up until then was in Hyjal, which was mostly because they took it by suprise. Once the defenders were properly mobalized, they got stomped.

If IRL a group of nutjobs says they're gonna bring the apocalypse, and then they successfully lead an assault on the pentagon with tanks, helicopters, troops, and bombers, you bet your ass world leaders would take them seriously. Competent world leaders at least.

But the Hammer didn't do that. They led a few suprise attacks that did some damage (And may or may not even be widespread knowledge) but they got totally swept in straight on battles. Obsidian Sanctum, Ruby Sanctum, the pre-cata launch, and Hyjal were all MASSIVE failures for the Twilight Hammer.

Once again; I'm not saying Garrosh wasn't dumb in sending off their ENTIRE escort. I'm justifying the fact that he attacked the Alliance.

Post by Rankkor

Once again; I'm not saying Garrosh wasn't dumb in sending off their ENTIRE escort. I'm justifying the fact that he attacked the Alliance.

Meh, they were still in hostile territory. Anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together would had figured out that deviating to attack anything without having established a proper foothold is just a dumb move. If it wasn't the twilight hammer it would had been the wildhammer clans, and if it wasn't them, it would had been OTHER alliance ships. Any way you slice it, breaking off formation to pick individual units off is something only idiots would do.

And those 2 lone ships were that, individual units. Breaking formation to engage THAT, without having established a secure foothold, in a hostile land where not one but THREE enemies await you (Alliance, Twilight Hammer, Wildhammer clans) is an idiotic move.