General Lore Discussions

Post by Adamsm

Sold, it's the early Beta; you are expecting way too much at this point in the game, since we won't go after Garrosh till the last patch, which means we'll probably start seeing things changing as time goes on.

Edit: There are Alliance ships there too; probably some type of war event tied into something....like I don't know, a massive fleet of ships finding a new continent =P.

Post by 588688

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Post by Rankkor

But we do know that the dark shaman are former horde members.And? That doesn't automatically equal Fel corruption.

No I just meant that they were former horde members, so it's unlikely that they were twilight's hammer or burning blade cultists, the quest giver would've likely just said that instead.

so? what are you trying to say? Tons of crazy folk are former horde and former alliance ya know?

Need I remind you that the scarlet crusade is ALL former alliance?

Post by 306612

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Post by Rankkor

Those cutscenes make me think "Why are the BEs still in the Horde again?"

I'm pretty sure that Sylvanas wouldn't plow through the Argent Crusade (not out of obligation but out of having better things to plow through) to get to them and they have now officially shown that they gain absolutely nothing in staying there.

because they're in the point of no return.

They've been in the horde for far too long, and have participated in several battles against the alliance, thus, if they retire from the horde now, all that will acomplish, is have a bunch of angry allys at their borders looking for a fight, and no horde to back them up.

That and the fact that elves can hold grudges for a long time. A certain alliance jerkass DID threw them all in the violet hold and tried to genocide them remember?

Edit: Also Nazgrim is now a general? good for him :P I love how he's climbed up the military branches, from a simple sargeant on WOTLK, to a leggionaire on cata, to a general on MoP

at this rate (and unless he's killed off) he's gonna end up being a high-warlord/Overlord by the next expansion.

Post by Morec0

Those cutscenes make me think "Why are the BEs still in the Horde again?"

I'm pretty sure that Sylvanas wouldn't plow through the Argent Crusade (not out of obligation but out of having better things to plow through) to get to them and they have now officially shown that they gain absolutely nothing in staying there.

Could be out of fear of Garrosh. If the blood elves were just suddenly to say "we're leaving" and revoke all of their lands out from under Horde control Garrosh, being Garrosh, would likely launch an invasion of Eversong and if that happened they would easily either have to A; surrender without a fight and rejoin the Horde with heavy penalties placed upon them (possibly more than the guards in Undercity) or B; fight back and risk more destruction to their lands and possibly the deaths of hundreds to thousands of their people at the hands of the Horde.

Alternitively, and this would probably come into play after the death of Garrosh, it could be that they also fear what the Alliance would do to them if they suddenly lost Horde support. Despite Varian having had a blood elf friend and the draenei having forgiven the blood elves for the crimes of Kael'thas (for the most part, I think) I'm sure some night elves, humans, and even dwarves, might push for the Alliance to invade their lands for the resources.

EDIT: Or, you know, what rank said...

Post by 306612

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Post by Rankkor

Again, Garrosh doesn't need to do anything to them. The blood elves have already been in the horde for too long, and as such, have participated in a lot of battles against the alliance.

If they leave the horde, they will have a lot of angry allys at their borders looking for blood, and no horde to back them up.

That and the fact that elves hold grudges for millenia. When a certain alliance jerkass threw them all in the violet hold and tried to genocide them, just how well do you think they took it?

Post by Morec0

Meh, I'm not convinced. If the Elves left, Garrosh would rush to their conquest, leaving his flank open and destroying the Horde in the process because there's no way the Alliance would ignore a gap that wide and seriously... other than minor participation (According to the fanfic-that-became-canon, the BEs have token participation in the war, they don't do much), what can you hold over them? Invasion of Draenei lands? Already forgiven. The High Elves schism? Would work but there's so little High Elves and we'd be one arrow away from Brightwing to solve that crisis (it involves Lor'themar's skull and it being shot).

Plus, the fact that they're not paying their taxes will likely mean that it'll happen ANYWAY. So... really, why are they still in the Horde again?

Maybe they actually feel some loyalty, then? As I think we can assume it took more than three blood elves to kill Dar'khan - throw in a few more Horde champions of varrying races sent to assist them with the destruction of the traitor and defeating the major Scourge base in the ghostlands. Plus, you know, they also helped save them from the Amani.

Post by 306612

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Post by Rankkor

Post by 588688

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Post by 306612

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Post by Morec0

Maybe they actually feel some loyalty, then? As I think we can assume it took more than three blood elves to kill Dar'khan - throw in a few more Horde champions of varrying races sent to assist them with the destruction of the traitor and defeating the major Scourge base in the ghostlands. Plus, you know, they also helped save them from the Amani.
Again, if they were that grateful the Org IRS would be getting that gravy. They are not. I don't think it's a question of loyalty either because most of the time they were coerced into going with operations (Thrall helping them out was out of mutual benefit - They get help, he gets their magic and their Outland knowledge. After that it was all coercion from Sylvanas). It's hard to be loyal to someone who says "Do this or you die."

Maybe that's it? They're in the Horde because of Outland. Iast I check the war against the Legion was still raging there, and with the belfs now formally members of the Army of Light it stands to reason that they are being told by the naaru to stay in the Horde so that when the time comes to bring the fight to the Legion they will have a hand in bringing the full might of the Horde in on it as well - similarly with the draenei and the Alliance.

Post by Rankkor

Omg the alliance one is so freaking epic! I like how the alliance plane that falls manages to crash on and incinerate an entire horde ship in the process.

;P sorry to burst your bubble there man, but the horde ship didn't seem that much affected, after all they DID continued firing and forced the other 3 ships to crash-land

its a shame that the horde one IS incomplete. After all, when you talk to nazgrim you are automatically ported to the horde crash site on pandaria, without any scripted sequence.

I think it's the horde ship that garrosh is raging about in the horde cutscene actually, tho I'm not sure. It got completely set on fire so it would've sunk soon afterwards. :)

@bolded part: There's no way to know, that one looked like an assault vessel, whereas the ship that garrosh was talking about seemed more like a cargo ship with some important weapon or otherwise important content inside.

@underlined part: I'm assuming that being on fire, while surrounded by WATER is a guaranteed way to sink am I right? duh, dude the ship is made mostly of metal, and they can put out the fires without much problem. If they were able to still be fighting, they didn't really suffered any losses.

plus take a better look at the scene, it wasn't "completely" set on fire, only the frontal side of it was.

Post by 588688

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Post by Adamsm

If it hit the front part of a Horde war ship....it actually wouldn't obliterate the crew; it may hit a few members, but not enough that Shamans, Mages or Druids couldn't get there to put out the flames.

Post by Rankkor

Well the part of the ship, aka the deck, that was made of wood would be burned to cinders unless they put it out in time, of course, the crash landing of the plane probably killed several horde on board by being either squished by the plane, or incinerated in the explosion. Tho ya the fact that it was mostly metal would mean it'd probably still be fine, but most of the crew would've been obliterated.

humm dude, do you know how naval vessels operate?

When on a ship, most of the crew is below deck (if the ship moves by rowing) or on the rear deck where navigation is held. Notice the design of the main gunships for both factions, notice where most of them are concentrated? on the rear deck, were navigation, command deck, and turning wheel are all located.

The simple fact that the ship was able to continue firing (and accurately so, since they FORCED the other ships to land) proved they sustained negligible losses. If the losses had been significant, they would had ceased to fire to tend to the wounded and put out the fires.

most of the crew would be located either to the lower decks, or to the rear decks with only scouts and battery gunners to the front row.

Anyway, I'm very pleased with the cutscene, it makes up for alliance not getting a twilight highlands cutscene like the horde did, tho I enjoyed the twilight highlands intro quest chain at least.

On this we do agree. I was disapointed with the intro the alliance go to the highlands. While I thoroughly enjoyed the part with Anduin, the actual journey there was pretty "Meh". The horde intro to the highlands, while it has a horrible facepalm-inducing moment, is still visually awesome, to see that giant armada strolling into the highlands.

Anyhow, here I'm hoping that Anduin plays a larger role on the Jade Forest. I'm not kidding (LOL Pun :P) When I say that kid is my favorite alliance character EVER. (Big irony considering how much I despise his father)

Post by Adamsm

So rewinding back an expansion, and realizing what we may have missed in the Gun'drak raid; was running it tonight for rep, and happened to walk to the back area of where you fight the Drakkari Colossus, looked over the ledge....and saw this: first pic second pic. It looks like a massive snake tail, and if you see it in game, it actually moves. The thing goes into the far wall...and the colour is similar to the banding on Quetz'lun. Just a random tid bit, and standard /sigh at Blizzard for what they skipped; but maybe we'll see a Gun'drak raid in the Northrend revamp heh.

General Lore Discussions

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