General Lore Discussions

Post by Adamsm

I'm talking actual violence against children, which isn't seen, only implied or shown the after effect

yup :P true enough, to to be honest, THESE days not a single game can show direct violence against children and expect to come out alive, the "Moral guardians" will never let games like that exist.

not like in the old days like Deus Ex in wich the only rules are the ones you make....... (sighs) what is gaming becoming these days? :PEh, Blizzard just wants to keep it's Teen rating... even if most of the online stuff ends up as easily being 18+ or Mature lol.

Post by Random0008

Post by Adamsm

Adamsm said it himself: The Night Elves are a war nation. They're not going to say, "Oh look, the Shatterspears joined the Horde! Let's be nice and cuddly and leave them and their precious land and resources alone!"They were going to do it anyways; and attacking children and civilians are war crimes, even in Azeroth; Garrosh murders on his commanders for bombing a town full of Night Elf civilians and non-combatants after all.

Post by Random0008

The Alliance and Horde are on a full scale war - I doubt the Alliance are going to tell off the Night Elves for this act, and if they aren't, what have they got to lose?

Post by Rankkor

%$#@. The. Night. Elves.

This is wrong. There is no justifying this. This is a war crime, and a big one at that.

And again, this is my tribe. I've been personally attached to this tribe since before Wrath of the Lich King, and it really pisses me off to see them massacred like this.

I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to say tough nuts. The Shatterspears were in the Horde when the Night Elves attacked them, so I don't think it makes it a war crime. Adamsm said it himself: The Night Elves are a war nation. They're not going to say, "Oh look, the Shatterspears joined the Horde! Let's be nice and cuddly and leave them and their precious land and resources alone!"

sorry dude but killing children is ALLWAYS WRONG, war or no war.

nothing justifies the murder of non-combatants, if Nation A has a problem with Nation B, then A sends it's soldiers to kill the soldiers of B; and then boss them arround.

if A sends soldiers to butcher every single living soul in B that's just plain wrong, and has no justification.

the fact that garrosh actually punishes the one responsible for the civilian casualties in stonetalon whereas the nigh elves get no such punishment clearly states who's the hypocrite as far as being the "good guys" goes.

Post by Adamsm

Post by Aimsyr

The Alliance and Horde are on a full scale war - I doubt the Alliance are going to tell off the Night Elves for this act, and if they aren't, what have they got to lose?

Again:

and attacking children and civilians are war crimes, even in Azeroth; Garrosh murders on his commanders for bombing a town full of Night Elf civilians and non-combatants after all.That's not part of war, that's going over board, almost to the level of the Old Horde. It's not a glorious battle or anything like that, it's a massacre; whether it happens under the flag of war or not, it's still a vile act, and hopefully the commanders of it will get what's coming to them, just like Garrosh took out one of his own for doing the same thing.

Unless Blizz is trying to paint the allies as some of the bad guys in Cataclysm, though it is hard to say with all the strange things going on. I mean, first the night elves seem to be diplomatic, welcoming the worgen especially with open arms, now they go and murder an entire village. Things are getting stranger by the second...

Post by 46491

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Post by Adamsm

now they go and murder an entire villageExcept that's what the original Night Elves were like; remember, very first encounter with both Alliance and Horde involved them attacking first, not asking questions till Hyjal itself. And again; Village full of Trolls(how many times do we have to say that Trolls and Night Elves are like Oil and Water, Cats and Dogs etc etc); always going to be a high target for Elves to kill, Horde aligned or not.

Post by Skreeran

Post by 46491

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Post by Skreeran

Well, after the meeting, Lorna, Darius, and Bloodfang ran back into Gilneas, and that's presumably where the rest of the Front went. It's possible that she was giving them the opportunity to retreat by Sea (with the Night Elves) with the rest of their people.

Hmmm. Still doesn't explain her sudden change of tactics. I mean, it's been established that she had no qualms about using the blight to wipe out the Gilneans before. Why is she now willing to just let them walk away? Unless she thinks that having the Worgen Curse is punishment enough...Can't say.

Could be a sour memory of Arthas' conquest of her own land. Garrosh asked her what the difference between her and the Lich King were, so she decided to deviate from the path Arthas took.

But that's just a guess. Who knows what's going on in Sylvanas' head?

Post by Septimus

Ysera's new model.

Post by Skreeran

Ysera's new model.I like it.

~~Even if she did take the form of the hated Night Elves.~~

Also, just noticed that a) she still has the Blood Elf wireframe, and b) her arms are really skinny under those bulky gauntlets.

Post by Septimus

Also her eyes are open. /lorerage

Post by 355559

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Post by Rankkor

B. Even Sylvanas, one of the coldest, most merciless leaders in the world, offered the Gilneas Liberation Front a chance to surrender and retreat.

Here's what Sylvanas said:

Sylvanas Windrunner says: Is Gilneas worth the lives that have been lost? The lives that will be lost? You cannot win.
...
Sylvanas Windrunner says: I now present you with a choice - a choice that I was never given.
Sylvanas Windrunner says: I offer you the life of Lorna for your unconditional surrender.
...
Sylvanas Windrunner says: Now leave here, Crowley, and never return.

Ok, this has me a tad confused. Sylvanas gives the GLF the chance to surrender, but...then what?

Her mission was to take Gilneas, so they can't retreat to there. There's nowhere else for them to go considering that the Forsaken now hold everything west of Thoradin's Wall save for a few isolated areas here and there.

If she's not going to just kill and raise them, what are they good for? Slaves? Test subjects? Target practice? Is she going to start her own internment camps?

Sylvanas has NO track record of letting defeated human enemies live, let alone get off scott free.

ps: more chat logs of that questline can be found here.

well ya know the rest of the worgens retreated to darkshore, and established a home in darnassus.

the GLF is nothing more than soldiers who came to reclaim their land, no civilians there, so Sylvannas simply lets them go so they can rejoin their civilian brethren.

also thank you for the complete chat log =)

I found the following lines to be very very intresting.

Sylvanas windrunner: Our goal, our sole purpose was to destroy the lich king. We trew our lot in with the horde, and began our journey towards redemption.

now we all know that's a lie :P this was their goal in warcraft 3, back when the forsakens had some principles, ever since vainilla all of that noble goal has been mixed with that nasty blight and "ravage the living" kinda none-sence.

another intresting line:

Sylvanas Windrunner: and your daughter? you could have saved her... you could had offered her your blood (to turn her into worgen) yet you did not. Why?

VERY intresting, so Lorna isn't a worgen, this is gonna be an intresting faction to say the least, because quite a lot of them will be cursed but others wont.

now I'm wondering if being cursed with the worgen blood makes someone inmune to undeath.....

last bit of intresting lines:...

Sylvanas Windrunner: (after being resurected) I saw..... only darkness, and as I drifted towards nothingness, a brilliant light appeared, then another, and another, My dear Val'kyr..........

=O she is showing EMPATHY? what the hell?

now I'm wondering another thing, the Val'kyr are unique as far as undeath goes, since they can bring someone back to life with their free will rather than as a mindless construct.

we've also seen that they can bring someone as undead in 2 diferent ways, Rotten and diseased as the Vargul, or Strong and in their prime as the ymijar.

could it be that the Val'kyr hold THE CURE FOR UNDEATH?

Post by Adamsm

could it be that the Val'kyr hold THE CURE FOR UNDEATH?No, because Ymijar were still corpses.

Ysera's new model.

Heh, she looks like her sister...... and yeah, why would her eyes be open? That means no one can look her in the face as they'll instantly fall into Dreams/Nightmares depending on her feelings at the time....

Post by GVHB

Val'kyrs could only rise the "worthy" Vrykuls as Ymirjal and the only other race they are able to return as undead are the humans, who are weaker descendants of the Vykrul. Maybe the human race is "unworthy" by default when they are resurrected by Val'kyrs.
One example of this is in Ambermill, during one of the quest you need to enter Ambermill and kill the Dalaran mages there and finally kill the Archmage. After killing the mages, the Forsaken army enters the city and Agatha (one of the three Val'kyrs that sacrifices to resurrect Sylvanas) rise the mages as Forsaken, already as rotten and half decomposed bodies.

Post by Rankkor

No, because Ymijar were still corpses.

they are still corpses? think again please

all of those are the Ymijar, and they are all Humanoids.

it's fairly established by lore that actual resurection (not as undead but as a living being again) it's quite posible, rare but posible. We see that in the scarlet monastery where Whitemane resurrects mograine after he's fallen.

when a Vrykul doesn't proves his worth, he dies, and gets the standard resurection in wich he is still a rotting corpse, but capable of movement, and when they prove they are superior in strenght and power, they get the special rezz in wich they DO get back to being fully alive warriors once more but empowered by the might of the lich king.

females are the exeption because they are directly transformed by the lich king, no middle-men here.

but it's a fair bet to say that Val'kyrs do have the power to fully resurect someone as a living being once more.

also GVHB, what you said makes sence that they can only ress Vrykuls and humans (who descend from Vrykuls) but who is worthy and who isn't is left entirely to the val'kyr to choose.

they didn't rezzed those mages as living beings again simply because they aren't worth it, I can see the logic in that, because doing the second type of ress must be very hard, and consumes a great deal o their power, they can't just spread those rezzes to anyone, they gotta narrow it down.

this is also the reason why we see so many vargul, but so few Ymijar.

General Lore Discussions

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