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Post by
Adamsm
Heh, is it any wonder why the two don't want to fight in the Western Plaguelands?Wish they'd fix the text though, as Koltira is a high elf after all heh.
I wonder then, when were they enemies in life?Actually, there's a relationship that isn't touched on much outside of the manga; Thassarian is actually Koltira's 'sire' for lack of a better term; the human death knight killed the High Elf during the Siege of Silvermoon, and either raised him up or took him back to Arthas to be resurrected; after that point, they are bash brothers for the rest of Third War, and of course are partners in the Death Knight starting area.
Wish they'd fix the text though, as Koltira is a high elf after all heh.
Him sympathizing with the Horde makes him a Blood Elf.
Koltira is a High Elf though; he died before the Sunwell was destroyed, so there wouldn't be a chance of him being a Blood Elf outside of Blizzard's model issues.
Post by
Anmity
Heh, is it any wonder why the two don't want to fight in the Western Plaguelands?Wish they'd fix the text though, as Koltira is a high elf after all heh.
I wonder then, when were they enemies in life?
Well, a theory about why Sylvanas can raise anyone without handpicking. Necromancy is one of the most corruptive kinds of magic, known to inevitably provoke mutation on the caster without a very prolonged or excessive use, like Demonology. What if the corruption also affects the target in a way that their very soul is corrupted?
"I was here visiting relatives when Lordaeron fell, and then... well. I suppose I won't ever be returning to Westfall, now.
Sometimes I wonder if my family is still alive. More often, though,
I wonder why I no longer care.
"
This points to a sudden change in character.
SPOILARS:
.
.
.
.
.
Godfrey was an arrogant man but not a monster, when he betrayed Greymane was for something he really believed would save Gilneas from becoming a beast of itself. But after he's resurrected into the Forsaken he becomes much more scheming, deceitful, even though not smarter (as if people would bow before the nobleman trio just because Sylvanas died again).
Sure, Sylvanas isn't free of rebellions or coups. But the recently risen Forsaken seem to be much more easily brought into fold - they are changed forever.
I'm just speculating now, but could this mean that there is one great difference that separates the Lich King raising undead and Sylvanas doing the same, and that one difference is what makes the new Forsaken not hate Sylvanas. I'm talking about the mindless state of servitude of course. One could theorize that in the mindless state the first wave of undead were created in made the first Forsaken hate the Lich King, since they had not yet had their will given back to them, and with that, had not yet started to not care anymore. (Just trying to make sense of it)
Wish they'd fix the text though, as Koltira is a high elf after all heh.
Him sympathizing with the Horde makes him a Blood Elf.
Koltira is a High Elf though; he died before the Sunwell was destroyed, so there wouldn't be a chance of him being a Blood Elf outside of Blizzard's model issues.
I know that, technically he never experienced the times where the elves started to feed on every kind of magic they could get their hands on, but since the Sunwell was restored pretty much all that differentiates the blood elves from the high elves are past experiences and what changed in their cultural shift. They're still the same race.
That's what I meant. Him sympathizing with the Horde (and therefore the Blood Elves) pretty much makes him a blood elf.
Post by
Skreeran
Heh, is it any wonder why the two don't want to fight in the Western Plaguelands?Wish they'd fix the text though, as Koltira is a high elf after all heh.
I wonder then, when were they enemies in life?
Well, a theory about why Sylvanas can raise anyone without handpicking. Necromancy is one of the most corruptive kinds of magic, known to inevitably provoke mutation on the caster without a very prolonged or excessive use, like Demonology. What if the corruption also affects the target in a way that their very soul is corrupted?
"I was here visiting relatives when Lordaeron fell, and then... well. I suppose I won't ever be returning to Westfall, now.
Sometimes I wonder if my family is still alive. More often, though,
I wonder why I no longer care.
"
This points to a sudden change in character.Don't forget
Faranell
.
In life, Faranell was an alchemist of great renown and spent the better part of his days studying amongst the learned wizards of Dalaran. He enjoyed nothing more than experimenting with concoctions of every sort, always looking to create a serum for this, an antidote for that.
After he died from the plague and rose as one of the Forsaken, his limitless curiosity was twisted by depthless sadism.
Now Faranell uses his skills in service to Queen Sylvanas as a member of the Royal Apothecary Society by crafting alchemical monstrosities and designing newer, more devastating plagues and toxins.There is a definite change in risen undead. Some are affected more than others (Faranell vs. Leonid;
Lydon
vs.
Getry
; etc.), but almost none have been entirely unaffected.
I'm just speculating now, but could this mean that there is one great difference that separates the Lich King raising undead and Sylvanas doing the same, and that one difference is what makes the new Forsaken not hate Sylvanas. I'm talking about the mindless state of servitude of course. One could theorize that in the mindless state the first wave of undead were created in made the first Forsaken hate the Lich King, since they had not yet had their will given back to them, and with that, had not yet started to not care anymore. (Just trying to make sense of it)Sylvanas also offers the opportunity to retreat to the Gilneans, which the Lich King never did. That makes me happy. She's not completely gone yet, I think.
Post by
451455
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
Sylvanas also offers the opportunity to retreat to the Gilneans, which the Lich King never did. That makes me happy. She's not completely gone yet, I think.
Saying she let the Gilneans retreat is sugar-coating it.
Lorna Crowly was kidnapped for ransom and if her father didn't retreat she would become a Forsaken.Right, but she then turned Lorna over to her father, and let them retreat peaceably, which she notes that the Lich King never gave her the option to do.
I'm not saying Sylvanas is all sugar and cream and this is proof, I'm just looking at the silver lining within the dark cloud of Sylvanas' evilitude.
(Code: Nappiest Siege)
Post by
306612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Joemaster240
Question: I was just wondering....are there any Azerothian cultures that believe in reincarnation?
Post by
Skreeran
Question: I was just wondering....are there any Azerothian cultures that believe in reincarnation?Tauren, definitely.
Post by
Rankkor
Question: I was just wondering....are there any Azerothian cultures that believe in reincarnation?Tauren, definitely.
since back in warcraft 3, only the tauren chieftains were able to reincarnate.........
Post by
Rankkor
Sylvanas also offers the opportunity to retreat to the Gilneans, which the Lich King never did. That makes me happy. She's not completely gone yet, I think.
Saying she let the Gilneans retreat is sugar-coating it.
Lorna Crowly was kidnapped for ransom and if her father didn't retreat she would become a Forsaken.
the point here is that she had the Gilneas Liberation Front by the throat, Mister Crowley (DUN DUN DUN) Surrendered and his troops the second they saw lorna captured.
at this point, a truly machiavelic person would had simply gone back on their word, slay the worgens, and turn lorna into a forsaken.
that being said, Sylvannas didn't do that, she let the girl go, and allowed all the troops of the Gilneas Liberation Front to go unharmed.
so, again I'm mad @ blizz, I wish they could make up their mind about sylvannas, first they set her up as the tragic anti-heroin back in War3, then a complete psicotic nut-job in most of WOTLK and early CATA, and now suddenly a moment of softness?
it's weird, to say the least.
Post by
Adamsm
Not really; Blizzard stays away from child violence, so of course the hostage get's away just fine and is not turned into a Forsaken by a psycho murder.
Post by
306612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
@Septimus:
You could be right, I think, I hope, but that's just not what I see on the table.
When I said she was sick, I didn't mean she was actually insane, like some kind of raving lunatic (on the contrary, she's ruling more and more with cold efficiency than irrationality), but that her being turned by Arthas made a permanent change in her psyche--one that not only twisted any sense of right and wrong that she had, but that has actually pushed her more into the evil zone. And instead of getting better, of getting less sick, she's getting worse.
It could be that she's just being as ruthless as she's always been, and can still recover, and I'd sure like that, but it seems she's been growing even worse than she used to be, and I'm afraid that she
is
getting more sick, and I'm going to have to put her down.
Post by
306612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
It could be that she's just being as ruthless as she's always been, and can still recover, and I'd sure like that, but it seems she's been growing even worse than she used to be, and I'm afraid that she
is
getting more sick, and I'm going to have to put her down.
It's been established (in another thread, on Lord Godfrey becoming more conniving and scheming after being turned) that becoming undead definitely does change one's perception.That was in this thread, one page before, and I agreed.
http://www.wowhead.com/forums&topic=123018.290#p2229306
Post by
451455
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
The point of ransoming Lorna was to hold off the Gilneas Liberation Front. If Sylvanas attacked any of them or turned Lorna into a Forsaken, then she'd break the deal and start back from square one with the Gilneans invading Silverpine.
Yes, it's strange that Sylvanas kept her word, but it was in the best of the Forsaken's interest. She's evil, not stupid.Meh, she could have killed Crowley and Bloodfang right then and there. But she honored her bargain, and didn't attack them while they were fleeing or anything.
Post by
Rankkor
Sylvanas also offers the opportunity to retreat to the Gilneans, which the Lich King never did. That makes me happy. She's not completely gone yet, I think.
Saying she let the Gilneans retreat is sugar-coating it.
Lorna Crowly was kidnapped for ransom and if her father didn't retreat she would become a Forsaken.
the point here is that she had the Gilneas Liberation Front by the throat, Mister Crowley (DUN DUN DUN) Surrendered and his troops the second they saw lorna captured.
at this point, a truly machiavelic person would had simply gone back on their word, slay the worgens, and turn lorna into a forsaken.
that being said, Sylvannas didn't do that, she let the girl go, and allowed all the troops of the Gilneas Liberation Front to go unharmed.
The point of ransoming Lorna was to hold off the Gilneas Liberation Front. If Sylvanas attacked any of them or turned Lorna into a Forsaken, then she'd break the deal and start back from square one with the Gilneans invading Silverpine.
Yes, it's strange that Sylvanas kept her word, but it was in the best of the Forsaken's interest. She's evil, not stupid.
dude, you're not getting the main point:
she-won
the worgens surrendered, lay down their weapons, and ceased fighting.
it is at this pivotal point in wich she got what she wanted that she could had gone back on her word and simply order them killed, it would had been easy, her troops were armed, the worgens were disarmed, simple as that.
the moment the worgens surrendered she already won the battle, and had them by the Troath, where she could had easily land the killing blow and kill 2 birds with 1 stone: Have the land, eliminate the enemy.
rather than doing that, she honored her word (REALLY REALLY unusual for her, and that's putting it mildly) and allowed them to "Walk" away
part of the surrendering deal was that the worgens lay down their weapons and get out of silverpine, and the deal was that the worgens did their end first, and then sylvannas would do her end.
there really wasn't anything, anything at all stoping her from going back on her word, if she had turned lorna into a forsaken, or atacked the worgens , or both, she would had won anyways, since her enemy had already surrendered their weapons, broke formation, and abandoned their bases.
also......
Yes, it's strange that Sylvanas kept her word, but it was in the best of the Forsaken's interest. She's evil,
not stupid
.
I dunno bro', the warchief gave her a DIRECT ORDER to cease production of blight and NOT deploy it ever again and she disobeyed that order, wich seems like a pretty stupid desition to me :P I could see a glimmer of hope for her if the warchief was a wise and patient one like Thrall, but the new Warchief has a pretty short fuse if you know what I mean.
I honestly don't know how the heck she thinks she's gonna get away with that.
Post by
306612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
229054
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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