General Lore Discussions

Post by Sagramor

Who else here got really sad when Cenarius died?
A moment of silence for the coolest Alliance ever.

Post by HiVolt

I wasn't sad at all honestly. At least not like I was when Lothar died.
I think part of it has to do with the fact that I don't care much for Elves, and that was the first I knew of Cenarius, was being a Night Elf Hero.

Post by Skreeran

He wasn't Alliance either... >.>

And he's still alive too.

Post by Sagramor

He is Alliance, maybe not officially, but he is. Also, he may be alive, but you still get to see him die if you play WC3 before WoW, and it's that moment that I'm talking about.

Post by HiVolt

Anybody know the clan that Nazgrel belongs to? Or is this another Saurfang-like situation?

Post by Adamsm

Nope, but he's the last remaining member of whatever clan it is.

Post by HiVolt

Found it. If he's the last descendant of Kash'drakor, it means he's the last of the Dark Scar clan.

Post by Adamsm

Isn't that the other way around? Kash'drakor wiped out the Dark Scar clan... unless I was reading that link wrong heh.

Post by HiVolt

Well, the wording is murky, so it could be the other way around. Kash'drakor's WoWWiki page says that he could be a part of the Frostwolf Clan, so that would probably make Nazgrel a Frostwolf too.
Lol, yeah, he's a Frostwolf. I feel kind of retarded now.

The weird thing is, it says he's a veteran of the Second War, and a loyal soldier of Orgrim Doomhammer...

Post by Adamsm

Eh, not really, it's like Rexxar, he wanted to be part of the war, so it's possible some of the Frostwolves, after Doomhammer avenged the death's of their leaders, joined the Horde to fight.

Post by HiVolt

Eh, I guess I can buy that.

Post by Arkham

Post by HiVolt

And he's still alive too.wut

The weird thing is, it says he's a veteran of the Second War, and a loyal soldier of Orgrim Doomhammer...Maybe he was a member of the Frostwolves but somehow proved his loyalty to the Old Horde, and was exempt from the clan's expulsion?

Cenarius is still living in the Dream, so he's technically alive.

And as for the second... I think he would have had to do something drastic to be accepted like that... like drinking the blood of Mannoroth, which Durotan allowed none from the Frostwolf Clan to do.

And if he had done something as equally drastic... like killing draenei children, or something like that, he wouldn't be accepted as a Frostwolf anymore. At least I don't think he would.

I still don't completely go with the "he wanted to participate" idea. I can see it, but just barely if it was after Doomhammer destroyed the Shadow Council. I just don't see the Frostwolves as wanting to have anything to do with the Second or First Wars.

Post by Skreeran

He is Alliance, maybe not officially, but he is. Also, he may be alive, but you still get to see him die if you play WC3 before WoW, and it's that moment that I'm talking about.No, he "died" before the Night Elves joined the Alliance.

Besides, he's a spirit of nature, he has no factional ties. He'd go against the Night Elves if they put nature in danger.

As for Nazgrel, I'm pretty sure the WoW Manual lists him as a Frostwolf.

Post by 451455

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Post by Adamsm

Nazgrel, the last son of Kash'drakor, was a raider of the Sythegore Arm who served under Thrall during the Invasion of Kalimdor. As a veteran of the Second War, loyal soldier of Orgrim Doomhammer, and a former prisoner of the Alliance internment camps, Nazgrel despises the Alliance, and humans in particular. He views Thrall's continued insistence that the humans can be reasoned with to be a weakness, and feels that victory through war is the only way that the Alliance will end their persecution of the Horde. However, Nazgrel is completely loyal to his Warchief, and thus does not act on his opinions.

After the Battle of Mount Hyjal, Thrall took the Horde to an area of The Barrens, which he claimed as his own, and named it Durotar after his father. The capital city was Orgrimmar, and Nazgrel was placed in charge of its security.

During the construction of Orgrimmar, Bloodfeather, a harpy queen, assaulted the caravans of supplies coming to Orgrimmar, but Nazgrel could not leave the city to deal with her. Fortunately, Rexxar, a recent arrival to Orgrimmar, offered to assist Nazgrel, and was sent to dispose of her. Nazgrel was pleased when they returned with the harpy's heart, and rewarded them with items from the armory.

Nazgrel was uneasy as news of the humans' actions at the coast reached Thrall, but obeyed Thrall's command for peace, letting Rexxar handle them. But when they lost contact with Gar'thok's outpost, Nazgrel accompanied Rexxar to investigate, and they found human camps along the coast. Nazgrel perceived that perhaps an attack was imminent, and so sent Rexxar and his allies to the Echo Islands to warn the trolls. Since that time, Nazgrel has continued to serve unquestioningly at Thrall's side. Before patch 2.01, he could be found inside Grommash Hold in the Valley of Wisdom, in the orcish capital of Orgrimmar. I'd have to disagree there Darkton.

Post by Septimus

So I was thinking, what were all the sentient beings that lived on Azeroth before the titans? Before the War of the Ancients.

I can only think of:

Night Elves
Trolls
Goblins
Furbolgs
Pandaren
Aqir
Tauren
Gnolls
Murlocs
Wolvar
Tuskarr
Kobolds

Was that really it?

Also, which of these races share a common ancestry?
And what would it be?

Post by HiVolt

It's thought that Night Elves are evolved from Trolls. Also, I think the Murlocs and Centaurs were around before the Titans too.

Post by Septimus

Oh yeah, Murlocs, and Wolvar too, I would suppose. But centaurs no. My reasoning being that Centaurs are descendent of Cenarius who was adopted at a young age(?) by Ysera, who was made by the Titans.

I think Night Elves descended from troll is plausible, as all trolls are descendants of the Zandlar trolls, which would have been relatively close to the Well of Eternity.

Also I was thinking that the Goblins could also be descendent from Trolls. My thinking is that it is a simalar concept in what turned the Vrykul into Azotha, stunted babies, continued breeding, evolution lead to a smaller, weaker species. And both species have big noses and ears, a common trait perhaps? Or perhaps, their ancestry goes back further then the trolls?

And I think it's obvious that Furbolg and Pandaren would share some sort of common ancestry.

Post by HiVolt

I just found this on WoWWiki

From the Azeroth article:
For much of Azeroth's prehistory, the Old Gods ruled Azeroth along with their Elemental Lieutenants. Azeroth attracted the attention of the wandering titans, who fought the Old Gods in a war of ordering. With the help of their constructs (the antecedents of dwarves, gnomes, vrykul, and giants), the titans allowed life to flourish on Azeroth. Satisfied, the Makers built hidden cities for their construct creations and bred Great Aspects to guard the planet before leaving on their cosmic journey.

The trolls are presumed to be Azeroth's first sentient race, not including the titan constructs who would later suffer the Curse of Flesh. From Zandalar, they spread across Kalimdor and formed great empires, most notably the Gurubashi and Amani. Later, the Azj'Aqir empire rose in the west, forcing the trolls to better defend their major holdings. With pressure from their trollish enemies, the empire of the aqir collapsed and split into the qiraji and the nerubian kingdoms.

So, this would indicate that there were actually none of the sentient races other than the elementals and the Old Gods themselves before the Titans arrived.

General Lore Discussions

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