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5/5 Cut to the Chase Overkill?
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Post by
brb28
51/18/2 Mutilate
is the newest buzzword in rogue 3.3 dps. The poison change has been very good, and many rogues are now replacing Rupture with Envenom in their rotations.
This build could run effectively in a mNmNmN rotation following openers, aiming to maximize the
Envenom buff
uptime to crank out the poison damage.
With the increased ammount of Envenoms being cranked out, why must we maintain
5/5 Cut to the Chase
?
BM hunters scoff at the use of
5/5 Frenzy
, knowing that 100% is more than is needed to maintain 100% uptime.
Provided we have a high enough Envenom output, I do not see why 3-4 pts in Cut to the Chase would not suffice to maintain our rotation, shifting the extra 1-2 pts into the soon forgotten
Turn the Tables
to achieve extra crit on our mutilates, allowing more CPs for even higher Envenom uptime.
My proposed
51/18/2
build
Post by
335310
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
AlphaQ
You might be right but Mutilate already has trouble with Crit Capping. What's the point?
15% Puncturing Wounds
5% CQC
3% Master Poisoner
50% Gear/Raid buffs (Kings, Agi, LotP, etc)
= 73% (good estimate) which is already way over crit cap for ANY rogue unless you're gemming hit.
Post by
MasterOutlaw
Correct me if I'm wrong, but since it's so easy to reach the crit cap with today's gear I would think Turn the Tables becomes even less useful than it already is.
Post by
mercutiouk
Indeed, I happen to be carrying a lot of hit due to drops etc (601 ungemmed, unenchanted at the moment) and i'm having to de-sync trinkets (don't have a good second muti trinket so currently deaths verdict and DMC:G) to stay under crit cap.
Post by
AlphaQ
What you *might* consider is putting 3/5 in CttC and 2/2 in QR (if you are not expertise cap). Although the trade off seems to be foolish.
Post by
AlphaQ
Indeed, I happen to be carrying a lot of hit due to drops etc (601 ungemmed, unenchanted at the moment) and i'm having to de-sync trinkets (don't have a good second muti trinket so currently deaths verdict and DMC:G) to stay under crit cap.
I'm fairly certain you are no where near being under crit cap even de-syncing your trinkets. With Expertise Cap + 601 hit you are around 67% crit cap. You should be well into the 70+% for your Mutilate crit rate.
Post by
470272
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
176977
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
mercutiouk
Indeed, I happen to be carrying a lot of hit due to drops etc (601 ungemmed, unenchanted at the moment) and i'm having to de-sync trinkets (don't have a good second muti trinket so currently deaths verdict and DMC:G) to stay under crit cap.
I'm fairly certain you are no where near being under crit cap even de-syncing your trinkets. With Expertise Cap + 601 hit you are around 67% crit cap. You should be well into the 70+% for your Mutilate crit rate.
I'm the wrong side of the AP re-gem, that should be mentioned if you're checking armoury.
On the spreadsheet, correctly gemmed AP/haste I sit 1 mongoose enchant the right side of the crit cap (both daggers chanted with zerking using heroic Icefall Blade and combatants boot-blade).
Aldrianna mentioned that multiple crit boosting procs overlapping hadn't been modelled too well yet but i'm pretty sure mongoose was modelled along the lines of the average increase. As adding 1 mongoose takes me over cap, using both DV and DMC:G (which don't have their overlap modelled) means I have to desync.
Post by
KidB
Because I like to think my slice and dice is guaranteed to refresh when envenom lands instead of having faith in the RNG gods. Not to mention that it's probably the best choice dps-wise, compared to the alternatives.
Post by
brb28
To play devil's advocate to my own theory for conversation's sake, There are drawbacks to this spec.
Overcrit is one drawback, but gaining the crit from talents could become a viable option to replace gear to favor haste or AP down the line depending on itemization.
The possibility of not having SnD refresh when you need it. Beyond the opener, energy spent on SnD is a loss of dps.
Opportunity is lost to Versatility. This spec does not perform well if Envenom does not become your exclusive finisher.In lieu of a warrior to supply the armor debuff, EA eats up finishers that would have been Envenoms. I've also been caught without a bleed up as HfB is dropping, losing another finisher to Rupture.
Post by
DoomEU
Yeah a nice idea to save some talent points, not sure it would be reliable enough in practice though.
I don't really want to have to worry about SnD dropping because of 2 unlucky rolls. Also there's times where I only just hit envenom on time (due to knockbacks, stuns, etc...). Really I think the only way this would be feasible is using 1-3 point envenoms all the time.
e.g. rotation would be
Have a one or more combo points? Envenom
Otherwise Mutilate
Not sure how much dps you'd lose by never doing 4 or 5cp envenoms though.
Might be worth playing around with but I don't think the extra points can be put anywhere else useful enough to make up for it. In heroics it's likely there may not be a bleed effect on the target so you'd have to put rupture into the mix somewhere too.
I was playing around with 1-3cp evenoms earlier, but for a different reason. I found it was possible to get a ~90% uptime (subjectivley while doing random heroics...) of the envenom buff.
Didn't do any dps comparisons though.
Post by
AlphaQ
Do you know how unlikely it is that you were to constantly get 3 or less combo points? First of all you have 60% chance to proc 1 point off finishers. You will have plenty of time to get a Mutilate in which has nearly 80% crit rate to get you 4 points.
For you to get 2 points is to /roll 40% and not proc on finisher. On top of that is another 20% to not crit on EITHER weapon of mutilate. If my math is correct it is about 1.6% chance for you to end with only 2 points and a 4% chance to end with 3 points.
Post by
asakawa
You might be right but Mutilate already has trouble with Crit Capping. What's the point?
15% Puncturing Wounds
5% CQC
3% Master Poisoner
50% Gear/Raid buffs (Kings, Agi, LotP, etc)
= 73% (good estimate) which is already way over crit cap for ANY rogue unless you're gemming hit.
crit capping in this context is for white damage. mutilate's crit cap would be 100% since it's yellow.
essentially, you can scrub puncturing wounds from your list.
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