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Official Warlock Cataclysm Thread
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Publicado por
asakawa
50% haste reduces cast/durations by 1/3 not 1/2 - strange but true ^_^
the effect of the "no clipping" is much easier to understand on regular DoTs (ones without the cooldown that doom has). there would be peaks and plateaus along the haste graph if we weren't able to refresh as we got enough haste to add another tick but assuming we always refresh before the duration ends (what we call clipping currently) the graph will be a smooth increase (or at least a relatively smooth one).
doom is different. we can't refresh (under current cooldown mechanics) until it has dropped off meaning that with 50% haste the tick would occur at 40seconds but then we couldn't refresh it. the DoT would drop. we'd recast and we have a spell that is not effected by haste. clearly this doesn't fit with how blizz want haste to work in cataclysm so we'll have to wait and see what comes from beta.
Publicado por
539323
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Publicado por
asakawa
50% haste reduces cast/durations by 1/3 not 1/2 - strange but true ^_^
Fixed, sorry. You'd think that since I'm a mathematician I'd be able to get it right. >.<.
well, it is counter-intuitive and not something that gets discussed often. the important thing is that haste represents an increase in spells not a decrease in cast time.
in the case of DoTs it's an increase in ticks not a decrease in duration. this is sort of true now but in a clumsy way that is being "fixed" with cata.
Publicado por
404185
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Publicado por
vykas
I am by no means a master at this, but from the looks of it, if BoH becomes a must-have in the Destro tree, then for Demo specs would
this
be a somewhat logical choice?
Getting to Improved Immolate seemed like a logical step as well, seeing as how it's a main DoT for Demo as well (currently) and a 30% increase seems like quite a buff, so I took a hit to Master Demonologist loosing 2% Felguard damage to gain the extra points. I also didn't see the need for the reduced cast time for summoning new minions since if they die in a raid you're probably doing it wrong. Also more raid focused I took full advantage of the Healthstones (which depending on content will be useful or not)
But like I said, I'm no master at this sort of thing and I don't think things will be as cut-and-dry as they are now. I can see a good deal of room for customization down the road, especially if we have yet to see the fully completed talents/changes.
Publicado por
asakawa
i love this stage of the process. i've been through it with each of the previous expansions and it's great fun. you get to revisit every assumption and look for new combinations of talents and abilities.
that said, iDT's usefulness is diminished with the change to DP so that's the place you can drop points. you really don't want to lose points in nemesis and master demonologist isn't just FG damage, it's master and minion - a corner-stone talent for demo and not something you want to lose.
i know what you mean about immo, it is tempting to improve it as much as possible but it's strength is more in it's DPET (with the extra talented duration) than it's actual DPS.
as such i would imagine we'll be looking at something along
these lines (0/54/22)
. but my innate sense of neatness really dislikes the single point in improved immo ^_^
Publicado por
356172
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Publicado por
asakawa
masteries all cap at 51.
edit to add a
source
also (still in the edit), i wonder what people will do with the 3 points needed to get to BoH in destro. demo can struggle with pushback on their relatively long cast destruction spells so i would like intensity but then in current content there are very few occasions where this is an issue on boss fights and it's really only noticeable on trash and if you get agro. meanwhile cataclysm (the talent) will have a small but clear effect on DPS via efficiency.
Publicado por
vykas
Ah yes, you're totally right, I keep wanting to skim points out to get that full improved immolate, but it just doesn't seem like it'll work. And I totally forgot about Nemesis. I think I was blinded by the large shiny numbers :D (that's my story anyway).
Publicado por
Metalfenrir
I feel that it worth pointing out Master Demonologist affects both the Warlock and the minion.
I'm not sure what the percentages of damage done Immolate accounts for but I'll go ahead and attempt some napkin math for the damage outlost lost by dropping the 2 points in MD.
Using a super handy percentage rise reverser I found online, we need to take 1.9607843137254901% away from the 100% damage we have now, leaving us with ~ 98.04%, meaning we lost 1.96% of our maximum damage output by dropping the talents
Using this
log
I can estimate that Immolate is 9% of the damage done by a demo warlock. If we want to increase the damage done by Immolate by 30%... 9 * 30% + 9 = 11.7% or a 2.7% increase, so without even calculate how that effects the damage of Incinerate. So suprisingly, if my napkin math is actually right, dropping some points for to grap Imp Immolate may be an valid method of increase. Aside from that I would think that
this
would perform slightly better, especially seeing how Metamorph is getting buffed, in both terms of the talents it gives up (hopefully) and the mastery talent for going deep demo.
Feel free to point out any errors in my logic, I'm sure they are lurking somewhere. ^_^
Edit: Wow, super late post, asaka replied like an hour ago. >-<'
Publicado por
Ksero
http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#IZcr0hkAzbZVbGVdcuVoAcct
this would probably be my ideal destro build if these were the final talent trees.
Publicado por
404185
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Publicado por
asakawa
destructive reach is currently broken. demo would never benefit from extra range on destro talents while their affliction spells are short range even with so much more of the demo rotation being destro spells.
that is something (along with threat talents) that GC said they would look at.
Publicado por
Metalfenrir
I am by no means a master at this, but from the looks of it, if BoH becomes a must-have in the Destro tree, then for Demo specs would
this
be a somewhat logical choice?
Getting to Improved Immolate seemed like a logical step as well, seeing as how it's a main DoT for Demo as well (currently) and a 30% increase seems like quite a buff, so I took a hit to Master Demonologist loosing 2% Felguard damage to gain the extra points. I also didn't see the need for the reduced cast time for summoning new minions since if they die in a raid you're probably doing it wrong. Also more raid focused I took full advantage of the Healthstones (which depending on content will be useful or not)
But like I said, I'm no master at this sort of thing and I don't think things will be as cut-and-dry as they are now. I can see a good deal of room for customization down the road, especially if we have yet to see the fully completed talents/changes.
I feel that it worth pointing out Master Demonologist affects both the Warlock and the minion.
I'm not sure what the percentages of damage done Immolate accounts for (I used a log off WoL for this part) but I'll go ahead and attempt some napkin math for the damage output lost by dropping the 2 points in MD.
Using a super handy percentage rise reverser I found online, I've calculated we need to take 1.9607843137254901% away from the 100% damage we have now, leaving us with ~ 98.04%, meaning we lost 1.96% of our maximum damage output by dropping the two points in MD
Using this
log
I can estimate that Immolate is 9% of the damage done by a demo warlock. If we want to increase the damage done by Immolate by 30%... 9 * 30% + 9 = 11.7% or a 2.7% increase, so without even calculate how that effects the damage of Incinerate, the benefits of getting 3/3 Imp Immo have already shown to be more then staying 5/5 MD.
So suprisingly, if my napkin math is actually right, dropping some points for to grap Imp Immolate may be an valid method of increasing one's dps. Aside from that I would think that
this
would perform slightly better, especially seeing how Metamorph is getting buffed, in both terms of the talents it gives up (hopefully) and the mastery talent for going deep demo.
Feel free to point out any errors in my logic, I'm sure they are lurking somewhere. ^_^
Edit: Wow, super late post, asaka replied like an hour ago. >-<'
Edit 2.0: For clarity
Edit 3.0: Oops...Quoting Vykas exited out of the post editor and put it into a new post, my bad.
Publicado por
asakawa
Edit: Wow, super late post, asaka replied like an hour ago. >-<'
Edit 2.0: For clarity
Edit 3.0: Oops...Quoting Vykas exited out of the post editor and put it into a new post, my bad.
teehee
Publicado por
404185
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Publicado por
asakawa
well, sure but it's not a dps increase, range talents never have been so while they can be kinda nice they're not missed when we can't take them (like at the moment). even over a talent like cataclysm (less mana spent - dps via efficiency leading to less life taps) or intensity (dps via less pushback - situational but a dps increase when it applies).
blizz promised that they're clean up the talent trees to the point that we'd get to take some useful talents that don't necessarily represent a dps increase but if that IS going to happen there are still some big changes ahead.
either way, if they do consolidate threat and range talents, that's going to have an effect on builds that we can't really predict so we'll have to wait and see.
if it went live as is but with destructive reach effecting ALL spells then i don't think we'd be taking it tbh. we can live without it too easily.
Publicado por
USMCDiablo
http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#IZbrchoAzdezAbstEb0Vd0k
I like this setup. Could trade the point in Destruction range for the mana talent, but I was too lazy to move the point after thinking about it. Plus assuming there's actually an encounter like heroic Deathwhisper where threat can actually be a problem it might actually be useful. The only problem is losing your demon because it's going to take a long time to resummon. I know my Felguard likes to pull Deathwhisper the second she phase changes and die ^_^
Publicado por
asakawa
well, one thing we do know is that fel domination is going since soul burn will achieve the instant resummon without the need for a talent.
this means that a) we don't need to worry about those talents (which is good because the current layout leads us to drop them), and b) that that section of the tree will be changing at some point.
we don't know if those talents are being replaced with something, just being removed or if the whole tree will be getting a shuffle around but, basically, i wouldn't worry about the resummoning for now.
Publicado por
LookOut
Seeing how much the druid talent trees have changed, I'm expecting a pretty big overhaul still ...
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