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Why no undead pallys?
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Beitrag von
299264
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Beitrag von
567203
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Beitrag von
Tenjen
actually lorewise, undead paladins would just be forsaken with the paladin class.
Technically the forsaken can become paladins just as they can become holy priests. But they'd need to be even stronger in will than the holy priests to be able to engage in open and direct battle while being in phenomenal amounts of pain.
Also there'd be quite a process to train as one, loads failing even with potential, a small pool of those who can, a lot of whom get dead due to various circumstances.
That and sylvanas probably doesnt want to look into the investment for them given
current
resources and capabilites.
Beitrag von
Monday
Am I missing something or are the only two "arguments" against undead paladins in this thread
Because if they cast exorcism it makes them explode?
What would be cool would be to give the Forsaken an anti-paladin class. I mean, they gave different spells to Alliance/Horde Paladins (Seal of Martyr/Blood anyone?). I think it'd be cool to give Forsaken anit-paladins, with "Unholy Light," or "Biocide" or Exorcism or something like that.
Beitrag von
Synectics
Am I missing something or are the only two "arguments" against undead paladins in this thread
Because if they cast exorcism it makes them explode?
What would be cool would be to give the Forsaken an anti-paladin class. I mean, they gave different spells to Alliance/Horde Paladins (Seal of Martyr/Blood anyone?). I think it'd be cool to give Forsaken anit-paladins, with "Unholy Light," or "Biocide" or Exorcism or something like that.
You mean something like Death Coil, Death and Decay, Blood Tap...?
Beitrag von
Monday
No, like a Paladin, except an anti-paladin. Not a Death Knight with evil doom magics or whatever, but sort of a Shadow Specced Paladin. A healer/tank/dps who believes they have a righteous cause, but are undead. So they go Shadow.
Am I being clear?
Beitrag von
blademeld
Shadow magic isn't evil doom magic?
Beitrag von
Monday
Shadow magic isn't evil doom magic?
Not really. Quite a few of the Forgotten Shadow cultists aren't bad people. They just want to help their people in their condition.
Beitrag von
Rencol
I agree that shadow magic isnt evil. Thats affliction.
Shadow is just one element of nature. Fire, earth, air, water for prime elements. Light, shadow and arcane for universal elements. And mind, body and soul for human elements.
These are not evil, they are natural. They become evil by adding demonic essence (dont say undead, first necromancy was practiced by the nathrezim and those are demons).
Destruction is demonic essence and fire, affliction is demonic essence and shadow, demonology is... demonology :P Blood spec is demonic essence, necrotic essence and body element etc etc.
So back to topic undead paladins ARE possible. They are not anti-lore wise, becouse not every fallen paladin will become deathknight. In icecrown you can fight dark paladins, who use spells like unholy light etc. The problem with them is they serve the LK.
Another argument was that undead paladins could not cast holy spells becouse they would destroy them. Well that was truth long time ago in vanilla wow, where anti-undead spells like exorcism had same effect on forsaken players as on undead mobs. Thats not true anymore, so we can considere forsaken as humanoids.
I think that the best thing would be making undead paladins as new hero class along with some counterpart for alliance, BUT not the same class like fallen human paladin. Something totaly different, to make horde and allys not same (except one side has more fur till cata) again like it was with shammies and pallies.
For example night elf demon hunter. Or something else, doesnt matter. If they wouldnt be adding night elf mages, their hero class could be arcane night elf mage, in comparsion to horde undead paladin. They are both kinda against lore, and who cares about arcane night elves? Nobody rly, so THUMBS UP for undead paladins!
Beitrag von
apvalceanu
TL; DR - original fantasy / lore / mythology would deny the existence of undead paladins, holy priests and such; WoW has its own lore
which Blizzard has changed more then once to serve its purpose
, and in WoW-lore context - undead paladins could very well exist in future.
Please bare with me and let us go beyond WoW for a second... and let me tell you why: i really liked Underworld but kind of hated Twilight. But i then read a comment that said these "new, exotic" vampires are so far away from the original idea that it almost makes no sense. So then i picked up and read Dracula (which i think is first ever mention of vampires... also naming them undead) and it turns out that
a vampire is someone who retains his body in death / undeath, but who's soul IS LOST
. So Dracula tells me 2 things: it was the first place to mention vampires AKA undead, and defined them as beings who lost their soul and free will, an would "live" on only to serve "evil / unholy powers". Both Twilight and Underworld presented a "romantic" view of vampires as beings who HAVE free will and who can serve a
greater good
, and who can even fall in love. But this is so far-fetched from the original idea of vampires that one has to realize the facts were manipulated in order to serve "the audience" - the romantic vision of vampires is "
cool
' and appealing.
Considering WoW in same manner - the first games that ever brought role playing in discussion (D&D, Baldur's Gate and so on - please do not even bring up Diablo here) presented the idea of paladins as a holy fighter / warrior who had a specific alignment / served a specific deity AND who were especially versatile against undead. As far as i recall there was no deity that "accepted" the undead, thus a paladin was indeed
"THE ultimate undead killer"
. Just as shown in the example above - WoW (like other games probably) has taken this idea of undead and mutated it into something "
cool
", who has a will of it's own or who has broken from the LK's will (again please not above paragraph - undead lost their soul and free will the second they became undead) and who now can join a faction / support a cause. The same is true if we look to what a paladin means in WoW, especially Draenei and BE who take their paladin powers from the Naaru.
Conclusion - the so called "
true lore
" does not support any idea close to undead paladins, holy priest just as it does not support the idea of gnome warriors, elves DK (exaggerating a bit). WoW lore was originally based on WarCraft lore (which in turn was inspired by mythology / fantasy or other sources of lore). But since WoW appeared, Blizzard changed the lore repeatedly to serve its purpose, rather then respect the lore as a ground rule and try to build the game around it. I do not want to go into a debate of this being right or wrong, but it is true. In this context Blizz can decide to change lore again and make anything possible - so undead paladins
would
make sense. It all depends on your position and point of view, be it strictly related to WoW or lore / mythology in general.
P.S. - There are some posts where people say "every wow player is special". If i recall what i have read somewhere, the whole idea of WoW as a MMO was that a single player is NOT special, but is yet another guy who wants to join the fight together with his faction to vanquish evil / LK bla bla. In the end people turn out to be heroes, but not as a single person; it is rather the "army" of / the sum of single players that becomes heroic by its actions. The quests which go around saying "bla bla be our hero and bring me back the head of <epic monster> bla bla" seem to me to just feed the "i want to be cool and important in this game" mentality, much more common in kids, and in my opinion much more suited for single player games rather then MMOs.
Beitrag von
Whatadorc
Paladin's are essentially holy warriors
Priest's are holy casters.
Forsaken are simply piles of bones.
The forsaken are essentially dead and should not be able to harness holy powers. Case closed.
Beitrag von
blademeld
Shadow magic isn't evil doom magic?
Not really. Quite a few of the Forgotten Shadow cultists aren't bad people. They just want to help their people in their condition.
So do death knights, but you classify their magic as evil.
The forsaken are essentially dead and should not be able to harness holy powers. Case closed.
Already covered.
Beitrag von
Synectics
The forsaken are essentially dead and should not be able to harness holy powers. Case closed.
Already covered, in that Forsaken Holy Priests can. Really no difference if they put on Plate armor, wield a sword and shield, and cast the same Holy powers to heal their allies. /shrug
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44284
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79224
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Beitrag von
299264
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Beitrag von
Rencol
In the end it would look like this:
Human paladin casts exorcism on forsaken warrior.
Forsaken warrior is burned by exorcism.
Forsaken paladin casts holy light on forsaken warrior.
Forsaken warrior is healed by holy light.
Forsaken warrior is burned by holy light.
Forsaken paladin is burned by holy light.
Forsaken holy priest casts lightwell.
All forsaken use lightwell.
All forsaken have been killed by lightwell.
All forsaken corpses has been healed by lightwell.
Human paladin dies of laugh.
riiiiiiiiiiight, GG lore
Beitrag von
Monday
So do death knights, but you classify their magic as evil.
Death Knight necromantic magic =/= Forsaken Shadow magic.
The Death Knight magic is demonically gifted by the Lich King (and is demonic in nature, considering that the Scourge was created by the Legion), whereas Forsaken magic is like anti-Light. It heals Forsaken and hurts living, but it isn't demonic. It's natural.
Beitrag von
299264
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Beitrag von
Jessicat
Was sitting at work thinking today why the taurin get pallys, but the undead who have been fighting the scarlet crusade which acts as mostly paladins have not been able to turn them. Im sure that more then one pally has fallen in the fight and been reborn as undead. You would would think that they would retain some memory of what they had learned before they died.
Because they haven't decided to do it yet, or, more aptly, because enough people haven't asked for it yet.
Also, "everyone who knows anything about WoW lore", hands up those that predicted the Alliance adding a) Draenei, or b) Worgen. Anyone? Or that the Horde would get paladins by having, in a nutshell, Kael'thas "kidnap" what is, essentially, an archangel. Again, hands?
Or, Worgen, despite being explicitly an "aberration", can be both priests and druids. Why? Not necessarily for any lore reasons, but because Blizzard wanted to have another alliance race able to be druids.
It was predictable that Kael would have done something underhanded like that, considering the path he had chosen for himself and his followers.
However, I do agree about them suddenly deciding to add new class-race combos for whatever reason. Some of the current ones are pretty iffy, then some of the new ones coming out are like "Why didn't they add this in vanilla?" It's all just something the Lore fans need to try to look over for the time being. It would be interesting to play as a Forsaken pally though.
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