Dear Tanks, You Suck.

Beitrag von xaratherus

There needs to be a harsh punishment for tanks that join and leave.
If it gets more common, Blizzard may need to step in. What could they do?

Personally, I think the debuff should stack if you drop group within the first 20 minutes of the run.

Then again, I so rarely use LFD that I very rarely drop group; I usually slog through it regardless.

Beitrag von Lohr

Simple:

Take a rez sickness debuff which includes a durability loss as well

higher geared tanks will take big punch for the repair

Beitrag von Interest

Beitrag von xaratherus

Beitrag von hispanoloco

I play a DK and Pally tank and yes I know many (probably most) tanks are either arrogant jerks or terrible tanks and this experience would have made me furious also (I do play DPS and heals toons), but from a tank point of view, sometimes tanking can get hard just dealing with DPS and/or heals QQ. Last night, running holiday daily, the DPS was terrible, but the 6k DPS mage yells out, ‘Tank Fails!’ I ignore and finish the fight, no one died, but the fight lasted longer than usual. I asked the mage, ‘why did I fail?’, mostly to see if I can learn something. His response, ‘fight took twice as long.’ I was speechless…then laughed. I responded, ‘My friend, is your job to kill him. It is my job to protect you.’ The healer and the other DPS all broke out laughing and 6k DPS mage leaves group. I still laugh thinking about this. I hope your luck gets better with pugs and tanks.

Beitrag von Interest

Simple:

Take a rez sickness debuff which includes a durability loss as well

higher geared tanks will take big punch for the repair

Problem with that. You can bank all your gear and continue to be an ass.

They could go all-out and just make LFD a gold sink: When you queue up, you pay X gold per boss in the dungeon; if you drop out of the dungeon, you lose the gold. So a tank could go in, down the first boss, fail to get his drop, and then jump out of the group - but he penalizes himself by having lost X gold.

Just tossing out ideas; I haven't thought that one over all that much yet.

So like a "deposit."

Not a bad idea. However, the penalty should only apply to people who earn the Dungeon Deserter debuff, as it's unfair for people who got screwed over by say, a tank that left and having to lose their gold too if they choose to leave, but receive no debuff.

Beitrag von Discolando

No one will want to tank for you if you make a thread like this saying every tank, good or bad, sucks. Some people suck, some don't. I don't mean to be condescending, but deal with it. We all have our bad experiences, and these threads don't start anything constructive.

Perhaps I should have been a bit less all-inclusive, but I'm happy to report that this thread appears to have become quite constructive.

Beitrag von 23608

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Beitrag von xaratherus

So like a "deposit."

Not a bad idea. However, the penalty should only apply to people who earn the Dungeon Deserter debuff, as it's unfair for people who got screwed over by say, a tank that left and having to lose their gold too if they choose to leave, but receive no debuff.

Exactly. They already do the same thing with auctions - cancel your auction and you lose your deposit.

And I agree, it should only apply in situations where the person would get the debuff. This would also keep people from kicking others as a means of forcing them to lose gold.

It should only apply in those instances where the person chooses to leave a group that otherwise could progress through the content (i.e., all roles are currently filled).

Beitrag von Lohr

Could make it that the player cannot leave any group until another one has been found but still include a narly debuff.

Beitrag von Onijitsu

I play at tanking, healing, and dps.

From what I can tell, about 30% of tanks, healers and dps suck.

About 50% of tanks, healers, and dps are okay, you don't really notice them, or remember them after the run.

The other 20% of tanks, healers, and dps are awesome and you want to run chain heroics with them.

The real problem is that we tend to remember the 30% of players that suck, for a myriad of reasons, far longer than we remember the other 70% of players that are okay or awesome.

Agreed, 100%.

BTW, you aren't actually in Farmington, are you?

Beitrag von Farmington

So... in order to tank a pug I have to post a performance bond? What happens if my interwebs go wonky and I get dc'd? Hmmmmmm...?

This would only make matters worse. Instead of doing guild runs 70% of the time and pugging 30% of the time I would NEVER pug. One more tank out of the mix and even LONGER queue times for the dps types.

I'm not the world's best tank. But I'm decent. I enjoy pugging... sometimes it can be a blast and you meet some great folks. That being said, the balance is currently just in favor of it being worth pugging on occasion. Put an extra financial disincentive in there and the balance tips solidly onto the "sorry, I only run with guildies" side.

Beitrag von Onijitsu

Several people seem to suggest further punishing tanks for leaving a group for whatever reason, justified or not. Do you really think this will solve any problem? This discussion exists because tanking is an unpopular role; making it less attractive by implementing extra punishments will hardly alleviate the situation.

Why should tanks carry extra responsibility for the success of the group? The plumber comparison that was discussed earlier is ridiculous to me. This is a game, there exists no contract or agreement to ensure the success when signing up for a dungeon run. This is very different from hiring someone in the real world to perform a task, like plumbing in the example.

If anyone wants to bail out from a group, he is free to do so, whatever role he might play, he will receive the same debuff as everyone else. The skewness of the population when it comes to the roles that people have chosen to play can hardly be blamed on the people that actually play tanks.

I agree with you for the most part.

My only objection is that it is much harder to get rid of a crappy tank than a crappy anything else. Because of the way that the vote-kicking system works, Tanks can just continue to pull and prevent you from booting them.

I think we also need to remember that Tanks get better privileges overall. Including, the fastest queues. Some of the more moronic players reach for these privs without being willing to "put out".

Where much is given, much is required.

Beitrag von Farmington

BTW, you aren't actually in Farmington, are you?

Maybe.

:)

The important question is "which Farmington?"

Beitrag von xaratherus

Several people seem to suggest further punishing tanks for leaving a group for whatever reason

Well, no. Not for "whatever reason". See below; this really should be designed to only impact those who make it a habit of regularly dropping groups before the end of the run - the "Oh, my shield didn't drop, see you," tanks.

So... in order to tank a pug I have to post a performance bond? What happens if my interwebs go wonky and I get dc'd? Hmmmmmm...?

Then you wouldn't 'leave' the group, and thus you wouldn't lose your deposit.

I'm not the world's best tank. But I'm decent. I enjoy pugging... sometimes it can be a blast and you meet some great folks. That being said, the balance is currently just in favor of it being worth pugging on occasion.

But you wouldn't be penalized by the system . If you queue up and actually complete the run, then great - you'd lose nothing. If you queue up, down one boss, and bail because you don't need anything off later bosses? Then you'd lose something - but you could avoid it by just finishing the run. The same would hold true for healers and DPS.

This would only impact people who leave the group of their own accord. I'd also suggest that it not apply immediately; there are times when we all may have to drop out of a run for reasons we can't control, and I don't think those people should penalized - but those tend to be the exception, not the rule.

Beitrag von Cambo

However, the penalty should only apply to people who earn the Dungeon Deserter debuff, as it's unfair for people who got screwed over by say, a tank that left and having to lose their gold too if they choose to leave, but receive no debuff.

Good idea, but what if players need to leave for legitimate reasons like an emergency?. They could say so to the group, but I'm sure many of us have made up excuses to get out of a group right?

If a player leaves but continues to be logged in, they should be penalised more than a debuff.

Beitrag von Killingsoul

well, i m healer, recently start healing hc's and i find more noob dps than tanks. dpsers doing 6k dps and taking dmg from stuff on the groud, pull threat! so because of that i need to spent my mana healing them and the tank and after 1 group of mobs i m at 40-50% mana. tanking is not easy, they need to know exactly how the fight is, hold agrro.

in my first hc, i done SFK with a DK tank and i didnt know tacticks (1 time there), the tank chain pull and no wipe, all easy, dps know what to do, all fine (and i m not a great healer).

so i think we just need luck and find a good group or doing hcs with guildies

Beitrag von 475128

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Beitrag von 464693

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Beitrag von Farmington

This would only impact people who leave the group of their own accord. I'd also suggest that it not apply immediately; there are times when we all may have to drop out of a run for reasons we can't control, and I don't think those people should penalized - but those tend to be the exception, not the rule.

Oh, cool! You've invented a system that can tell the difference between "gtg, cat's on fire" and "my shield didn't drop, cya!"

In my opinion, based on recent personal experience in Cata heroics, tanking is about 3 times more "difficult" than healing, and about 10 times more "difficult" than dps. If you want good/decent tanks, you should be petitioning Blizz to create more REWARDS for tanking, not asking them to penalize any tank that might happen to leave a dungeon group for whatever reason.

Dear Tanks, You Suck.

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