Cata Expertise and AP

Beitrag von 95638

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Beitrag von pelf

Maybe they're actually going to make sure that gear itemized to be shared between ferals and rogues will have enough expertise to not require a talent crutch or compromise of DPS stats to achieve.

Beitrag von yodadoe

also, assuming I read it right, Agility will now give us 2AP per point instead of just one. And supposedly, the amount of Crit we get from Agility will go down to even it out. I am curious to see if this will result in Bears wearing agility items in the neck/cloak/ring slots or if we'll still use the standard tanking items that have strength on them.

Beitrag von 129046

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Beitrag von 95638

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Beitrag von Falkor

Attack Power
Attack Power will no longer be present on gear. Strength and Agility will provide these bonuses instead, generally at a rate of 2 AP per point in Agility or Strength (depending on the classes favored stat).

Still haven't heard what they have decided for druids though, since it used to be STR that gave us 2 AP.

there wont be str leather though. blizz wants us to use rogue gear, so they'll then have to grant 2ap per agi to fit with rogues.
just like mail will have agi for shaman/hunter. plate will have str (for melee). i do not foresee them making separate str leather for druids, so yeah.

Beitrag von 80642

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Beitrag von Aadramelekh

Cat druids will get 2 AP per point of agility and NO AP from strength. Bear druids will get NO AP from agility (just crit / dodge / armor) but will get 2 AP per point of strength. It's been stated in a blue post quoted on mmo champion some time ago (can't remember when so I can't link it).

The fact that bears will still get 2AP per strength point was left like this so that tanking jewelry, cloaks (and possibly relics) can be shared among all four tanking classes. There will be no strength leather items, just amulets, rings and cloaks. Possibly relics too, since there are items like this one:

Relic of Khaz'goroth (Item Level 359)
+107 Strength
+161 Stamina
** Red Socket
Equip: Increases your dodge rating by 72
Equip: Increases your mastery rating by 72

PS: I am currently in doubt about one thing... Since there will be no more defense rating on gear (as tanks will gain their uncrittability through talents), I think that tanking jewelry, cloaks and relics will not be that desirable for Bears anymore. If the agility and dodge rating will provide similar percentages of dodge at level 85 (of course, proportional with level scaling), then I really don't see why a Bear would chose an item with dodge rating (which only gives dodge) instead of one with agility (which gives dodge, armor and crit).

Beitrag von 95638

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Beitrag von 80642

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Beitrag von Aadramelekh

Bears are getting AP from agility. Wouldn't make much sense to not give it when we have no FAP, and no more raw AP either.

Hmmm then I guess I didn't remember correctly. My bad. The thing I know for sure is that I read that bears will receive AP from strength as well (supposedly to allow sharing amulets, rings, cloaks and relics between all tank classes).

But since bears will receive AP from agility then I really don't see why would they even consider using 'standard' tank pieces that bring strength and dodge rating. Agility beats both of them (cumulated). I see no reason at all.

Beitrag von 80642

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Beitrag von Aadramelekh

I have to disagree about the 'more health' part. Looking at the items that were datamined from the cataclysm files, we can see that both agility and strength jewels, cloaks and relics have the exact same amount of stamina:

Agility amulet vs Tank strength amulet - both have the same stamina and the same agility/strengt.

Agility cloak vs Tank strength cloak - the same stamina and notice the higher agility value.

Perhaps the *only* incentive for using some of these standard strength items for tanking would be if they offer a mix of expertise + mastery + bonus armor. Otherwise I *really* don't see the benefit of a typical tank item over an agility one. Agility is simply too good. Offering AP, dodge, armor and crit... That sounds like the perfect mix of tanking stats to me (boosting both threat generation AND survivability). Mastery / expertise rating will be present on plenty of other items (other slots), so they won't be that scarce. Actually mastery is quite a lackluster stat for bears in my opinion. What bear mastery does is it slightly increases the amount of damage absorbed by the Savage Defense shield. Considering that Savage Defense has a 50% chance to proc from a crit and also considering that crit at level 85 will be lower than the numbers we see now at level 80 (not to mention that raid bosses will scale up in higher tier content, meaning that the crit chance against them won't be higher with gear), mastery is a pretty crappy stat to look for when gearing up a bear tank. Expertise is still strong, but since the parry haste mechanic doesn't happen anymore (or at least from what I remember), it's not such a vital stat anymore. It's just good for boosting threat output, not survivability.

In my book so far, the fact that agility also grants 2AP per point for bears is the factor which makes it *the* best stat to look for when gearing up a tank, since similar item level items will provide exactly the same amount of stamina.

By the way, looking at the items listed on MMO Champion, ALL ARMOR CLASSES have the same amount of stamina when they have the same ilvl. I haven't seen any exception from this apparent rule.

Beitrag von LookOut

PS: I am currently in doubt about one thing... Since there will be no more defense rating on gear (as tanks will gain their uncrittability through talents), I think that tanking jewelry, cloaks and relics will not be that desirable for Bears anymore. If the agility and dodge rating will provide similar percentages of dodge at level 85 (of course, proportional with level scaling), then I really don't see why a Bear would chose an item with dodge rating (which only gives dodge) instead of one with agility (which gives dodge, armor and crit).

This is EXACTLY what I've been breaking my head over concerning Cata gearing. I was actually kind of shocked to see the same amount of stam on deeps items compared to tanking items.

~~I do remember a blue post stating that bears will finally also get AP from agi, but just like you Aadra, I can't find it right now ...~~ Check out the Bear Form tooltip! Same melee attack power increase, lower armor modifier, same stam modifier :o and AP from agi. It might be a 1-to-1 conversion though instead of 2 like kitties get ...

Also agreed on mastery being the kitty stat, and expertise only boosting threat (although there are still a few parry-hasted bosses left I think? But very few really). Maybe that's the way blizz wants it, but I doubt it. They might change our mastery in a later patch or something, who knows?

Beitrag von Aadramelekh

I think it will be 2 AP per point of agility, just like the cat form benefit.

Since a bear will have lower agility than a cat (a bear will gem and enchant for stamina, unlike a cat, which will enchant and gem for agility), it will already have a lower agility pool to draw AP and crit from. As such, having only a 1:1 agility to AP ratio would severely gimp threat generation, since abilities such as Faerie Fire, Lacerate, Thrash, Swipe and especially Maul draw much (or all) of their damage from AP, not from base damage, like Mangle or Pulverize do.

Beitrag von Falkor

so wait...how is no feral AP on weapons supposed to work out. are we supposed to be balanced now that we get 2ap per 1 agi and 25% more attack power passively or something? or are paws stronger to compensate?

Beitrag von 80642

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Beitrag von 109094

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Beitrag von Aadramelekh

From what I understood there will be no FAP whatsoever from weapons (as we currently understand it), not even "behind the scenes". The DPS of the equipped weapon will be translated directly into weapon damage (or paw damage if you will) in forms, without having any other kind of influence over our other attacks.

Currently, the FAP value given by a weapon influences both our paw damage and attacks whose damage is derived from Attack Power. A weapon with 4051 FAP gemmed with 3x20 agility will provide 4290 base AP (no modifiers from talents or buffs considered) and thus contribute with ~306 to a cat druid's paw damage (assuming an attack speed of 1 second) but also will contribute to the damage done by Rake for instance. In Cataclysm things will be different. The only AP given by that weapon will be from agility alone, or 2*(179+60)=478, and that's the only thing that will influence the damage done by Rake. The paw damage will be influenced by AP as well, but probably it will have a different value, depending on what formula will Blizzard use to derive paw damage from a weapon's DPS.

Cata Expertise and AP

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