Угасающий алмаз небесного сияния ПРОТИВ Провидческий алмаз землеправителя
C точки зрения холи-пала.

Итак.
Прежде всего хочу отметить, что сравнивать их напрямую некорректно, так как они требуют различные камни для активации - 3 красных и красный+желтый+синий соответственно.

Сравним сокет бонусы:
3 красных: (12 СПД + 10 ИНТ) * 3 = 36 СПД и 30 ИНТ.
красный+желтый+синий: (12 СПД + 10 ИНТ) + (20 ИНТ) + (10 ИНТ + 5 МП5) = 12 СПД, 40 ИНТ и 5 МП5.
То есть Угасающий имеет +24 СПД, -10 ИНТ и -5 МП5

Теперь добавим сами камни:
(25 СПД + 2% инты + 24 СПД) ПРОТИВ (21 ИНТ + мп5 от прока + 10 ИНТ + 5 МП5)
МП5 от прока в зависимости от подсчета равен 50-75мп5. Возьмем для расчета 60 мп5.
2% инты против 31 инты. Считается довольно легко: 2% = 31 инты, 1% = 15.5 инт, 100% = 1550 инты. То есть если у паладин БЕЗ БОК больше чем 1550 инты, то 2% это больше чем 31 инта.

Итог.
Выбор сводится к вопросу: что луче "49 СПД или 65 мп5"?
При этом паладины с 1550+ инты в комплекте с СПД получают немного инты, а паладины с 1550- получают инту с мп5.

Комментарий от 488384

Имеет ли этот камень общий кд со "слезы поверженных"?

Комментарий от 750347

ваще лушыи камени для Хпалов :)

If you disregard the tooltip for the effect (2% and 300 mana) and click through to the actual data (5% and 600 mana) this gem is really great. If you assume 30 spells cast per minute (one every 2 seconds) which is quite low for some classes, this meta turns out to be 75 mp5.
(30 spells/minute * 5% proc chance * 600 mana per proc) / 12 5-second slices per minute = 75 mp5
(30 * 0.05 * 600) / 12 = 75
As you can see, if you cast more spells the value of the gem gets higher.

Of course this is limited by the internal cooldown, but I have been unable to find any data supporting a value for this cooldown, and I am unable to manually test it atm.

Комментарий от fakeh

I don't know if this is a) bugged in the effect or b) bugged in the reporting but Recount has been telling me that I'm getting around 4.5k mana back from this gem in nearly every boss fight in 10man Naxx as a restoration druid. This seems awfully high even though it matches perfectly with xiphias' estimation of it equaling 75mp5 assuming a 5 minute fight.

Комментарий от Bandyto

Does the proc share cooldown with Darkglow Embroidery?

Edit: Just tested it and both Procs occured within three casts. First the cloak, last the gem. Can someone confirm?

Комментарий от 272088

Does anyone know if this can proc off of hunter skills? (ie steady shot)

Комментарий от Anile

Last night in Naxx I got a 1.7% return on this meta. I am goint o stick with 25 sp and 2% int.

Комментарий от Persen

BUT, thier "spells/abilities" do cost mana, and CAN proc this gem.

Is this something you have confirmed or is it something you've made up, basing your argument on the mana cost?

Комментарий от 88498

I've been parsing trying to discover if there is an internal cooldown and I'm seeing procs less than 25 seconds apart, so it appears to be able to proc quite close together.

Комментарий от 259861

The tooltip says 2% proc chance, but if you click on the effect you have a 5% proc chance. Which is the correct one?

Комментарий от Poposhka

also procs when a paladin summons his mount :)

Комментарий от 136336

I started to spam Flash Of Light and count, once it procced i counted 15 seconds before next proc but idk it could be different thats just one estimate.

Комментарий от Dyna

Ok so after looking for a meta for my disc priest i found these two Insightful Earthsiege Diamond + Beaming Earthsiege Diamond but it appears no one can decide which is best so here is my try at working it out. If your not interested in how i worked this out i would advise reading the first bit then skipping down to the summery.

First part is a break down of what each gem gives you

Insightful Earthsiege Diamond
+21 Intellect and Chance to restore mana on spellcast

The 21 Int gives you

15mana per intel (15 * 21 = 315mana)

Intellect also increases the amount of MP5 generated by Spirit.

Increased crit chance of 0.126% (assuming 166.6667 = 1% crit (which according to here it is.

+ return of mana 2% of returning 600 mana.

There are plenty of posts about how much this could return well tecnically it could proc of every spell case thats outside its internal cooldown from what ppl have said it looks to be around 15 secs so max theroetically would be an increase of 200mp/5 of course your very very unlikely to ever get that :)
So we will use some averages (50 casts a min lets say for sake of arguements should be about right for disc priests and pallys), basically this will on average return you 12 mana per spell cast. Now that may not sound like much but healing a boss for 2 mins thats 1200 mana returned if it only hits twice in those casts or aprox 50mp/5

Beaming Earthsiege Diamond
+21 Critical Strike Rating and +2% Mana

21 crit rating gives 0.46% crit
2% mana on 15750 mana pool is an extra 315 mana

So to compare there are three things it appears we need to look at, the increase in your mana pool, the increse in crit and finally how each of them returns mana

Increasing mana pool

Insightful Earthsiege Diamond gives us 315 mana

Beaming Earthsiege Diamond gives 2% mana pool increase for that 2% extra mana to equal the int from insightful you would need a mana pool of 15750 prob an around average amount of mana for a priest/pally.

Think we can call that one a draw (of course 2% mana will scale better with bigger mana pools)

Increasing crit chance

Insightful Earthsiege Diamond gives us aprox 0.126% crit increase
Beaming Earthsiege Diamond gives us 0.46% crit chance increase

One to Beaming Earthsiege Diamond

Returning mana (this bit got a bit more complicated and the last part only applys to disc priests)

Insightful Earthsiege Diamond gives 1200 mana aprox returned in an average fight of two mins is a lot of mana however you look at it tbh (60mp/5 while casting) of course you have to take into account that its a proc not a garanteed return, but think how often the WG trinket or the Badges trinket procs if were looking at a similer return it is going to be returning you a lot of mana, combine this with rapture and its going to meen that some of your healing spells are actually going to add mana to your pool when you heal!
Returns from mp/5 from int i imagine will be next to none although every little helps

Beaming Earthsiege Diamond gives no mana returns to pallys as far as im aware unless i missed something.

So for pallys a clear win to the insightful gem
For disc priests it becomes more complicated

From here on im talking about the disc prist tallent rapture returns 0.25% of you mana when you cast a full heal - please note the maths for working out actuall returns from rapture are mindblowing there is a thread in the priest forum with them in if your interested - but for this i have just used the simple formula of 0.25% of your mana being returned which would mean perfect heals every time with no overheal!

The only possiable way of Beaming Earthsiege Diamond returning any mana is to disc priests via rapture and at very most thats going to return you .25% of your mana for a fullly utilised heal and remember this only applies to any differance between the mana increases from the int on one and the 2% on the other.
This means two thing firstly you must hava a mana pool of over 15750 for the 2% to surpass the 21 intel, secondly your going to need a large amount of mana over the 15750 for it to be worth while. For every 400 mana you go over the 15750 you get 1 extra mana point back for every fully sucsesfull cast (no overheal remember) using maths from up there ^^ the proc should return on average 12 mana per spell cast so that means we need 4800 extra mana (12 x 400) over the original 15750 or a mana pool of 20550 mana for the mana returns via rapture to be worth even considering.

(i have realised after writing all this that i dont think the maths here is quite right but its late and im not going through and changing it all now its not much differance, but taking into account the extra mana for the 2% to be applied to, the limit of where this starts paying off may be ever so slightly lower slightly lower and if you read on its not probably not worth worrying about especially considering how mind numming the maths for rapture actually is)

Summery - this may be about where you want to stop ignoring my wall of text.

Beaming Earthsiege Diamond gives 0.335% extra crit chance

On an average geared player both of these gems will add about the same amount of mana to their mana pool.

Insightful Earthsiege Diamond returns a lot of mana on average but is a proc (but does that stop most casters from having the badge trinket? no because over the amount of time you will be using it you are very likely to see the average returns from procs)

Beaming Earthsiege Diamond returns no mana to most classes

so as a genral rule Insightful Earthsiege Diamond is always better for pallys and better for average to well geared disc priests.

Would only recomend Beaming Earthsiege Diamond to well geared disc priests who will benifit from the return of mana via rapture (in my estimation were talking tose with mana pools above 24k) at this point the rapture returns will probably be about equal (assuming of course your good gear was got through some lvl of skill) at this point the extra crit rating would start to outweigh the possibilities of lots of procs as mana shoulnd't be a problem.

Of course that last part of that is imo and involves some educated guessing and is about personal prefferance, my advice (and exactly what im going to do for my avarage geared disc priest) is get the Insightful Earthsiege Diamond, then consider the sidegrade if it becomes worth it later on for the additional crit.

Of course pallys should just get the Insightful Earthsiege Diamond all that spamming of flash of light may wear the trinket out though :P

Oh and on a side note as i saw it mentioned Beaming Earthsiege Diamond would be the only choice out of these two for hunters as they dont cast spells and although they may be able to get it to proc on some things that are considered spells maybe revive pet? but is really not worth it as most of the things they do in combat wouldnt be considered spells. And yes we know you like doing lots and lots of dps and yes a 2% chance to return 600 mana on every one of your abilities would allow you to do that forever but you have to let the rest of the dps have something to do :P

Sorry about the wall of text just thought i may as well share it with you :) may edit looks later :)

Комментарий от 7163

As far as I know the only hunter abilities that count as spellcasts are Mend Pet and changing aspects.

Комментарий от fjlj

ok so i did an ingame test using the dotimer addon to send me a whisper when it proced and used elephant to log the whispers so i could see the time intervals.. i modified recount to log when not in combat so i would get a total mana gained at the end. i wrote a program to cast levitate every 1.5 seconds (global cooldown) and i let it go for 10 minutes..

i came back to find this :)
Logging started on 04/19/2009 at 00:10:44.
00:10:49 whispers: Mana Restore
00:11:55 whispers: Mana Restore
00:12:12 whispers: Mana Restore
00:12:45 whispers: Mana Restore
00:13:31 whispers: Mana Restore
00:13:50 whispers: Mana Restore
00:14:11 whispers: Mana Restore
00:15:31 whispers: Mana Restore
00:15:56 whispers: Mana Restore
00:16:25 whispers: Mana Restore
00:16:58 whispers: Mana Restore
00:17:19 whispers: Mana Restore
00:18:38 whispers: Mana Restore
00:19:30 whispers: Mana Restore
00:19:57 whispers: Mana Restore
00:20:28 whispers: Mana Restore
00:20:44 whispers: Mana Restore

so looking at this data it procced 17 times for a total mana gain of 10200 wich was also logged in recount.

10 minutes is = to 600 seconds
10200/600 = 17
17 * 5 = 85 MP5

so then i tested a few more times with levitate every 1.5 seconds for about 40 minutes.. and in the end i had 54 procs giving me a procrate overall of 3.375% but that was non stop casting and that ensured that i was not missing any chance that the CD was up... you have to take into count the fact that the ICD is 15 seconds and that is the same as 10 casts at 1.5 seconds. and the 11th one has a 2% chance to proc it. but over this extended period of time it shows that your chance to get a proc is a bit closer to 3.5% and it has a chance to give back an average mp5 at 1.5 second casts of around 60-70. and yes the faster you cast and the more haste you have the more valuable this gem is :)

only problem with this is that it is very random....

Комментарий от Luvaria

Just doing some math on this, with a 15 second ICD, 600 mana proc, and a 1 second GCD (for a resto druid), and casting every GCD, you'd get a 75% chance to proc this every 15 seconds, netting you 1800 mana per minute, or 150 mp5. This, of course, is using your GCD every 1 second, which will only happen when you're a resto druid who is haste capped with GotEM, and only casting Rejuv, WG, and LB. Realistically, saying you average something like 1 cast every 1.2 seconds (Nourish, hots, Regrowth casts), you'd get around 125 mp5.

(15/1.2)*0.05 = 62.5% chance to proc every 15 seconds, or 2.5 average procs per minute

That's 1500 mana per minute or 125 MP5.

That makes it a very nice meta gem, especially with the nerfs that came in concerning regen. I personally switched from the 25 spell power and 2% int gem specifically so I can put one of my spell power trinkets back on, for a net gain to both spell power and regen.

Комментарий от fjlj

ok so in my post above i realized that as the length of time increases also does the amount of times the proc can happen and also increases the number of casts that "should" proc it..

EG

5 minute fight

5 minutes * 60 seconds= 300 seconds
300 seconds / 15 seconds (ICD) = 20 total opportunities to proc

with a 1.5 GCD in 5 minutes
300 seconds / 1.5 seconds(cast time/GCD) = 200 casts
200 casts * 0.05 (5% proc rate) = 10 procs on average in 5 minutes

since this # is less that 20 (total # of opportunities) this is an accurate average # of procs but of course you could proc within the cool down sacrificing some....

now in a ten minute fight both of those numbers double... and the time restriction does not become a big problem until your cast time and gcd is less than 0.8 seconds..

soo this means that yes the restriction can cause you to miss a few procs but isnt really a big restriction...

in other words this gem is kick ass for anyone that is constantly casting with consistant cast speeds... locks(most instant some not...),druids,priests(little less beneficial than a lock unless you are a smiter :)))) ),mages(about the same as a priest), wait is their a caster i havent named...

Комментарий от fjlj

Комментарий от fjlj

upon further investigation i theorized this and please tell my if my math is wrong..

so if every 15 seconds you can proc only once that means that with a 1.5 second cast you can get 10 casts in that 15 seconds...

so the chance that you will get a proc on each cast is 5% meaning the chance you will not get a proc is 95%

soo the probability of not getting a crit is equal to

(0.95^10)

meaning the probability that you will get a proc is equal to

1 - (0.95^10)

so now how many 15 seconds are in 5 minutes
300/15 = 20

so our expected procs based on probability would be equal to

20*(1 - (0.95**10))
or
8.02526121523243

rounded down to 8

meaning in a 5 minute fight at 1.5 second casts you could expect to see atleast 8 procs (based on probability)

meaning 600*8 mana = 4800 mana or (4800/300)*5 MP5 = 80 MP5

:) ok now im really done...

btw equation ends up being

(L/15)*(1-(0.95^(L/C)))

where
L = length of fight in seconds
C = cast time in seconds.

Комментарий от 144159

As a resto shaman, I threw out 44 spells, (2 Mana Spring Totem, 1 Mana Tide Totem, 2 Water Shields, rest Lesser Healing Wave) and it procced on the very first spell and on the 44th spell.

Комментарий от 274859

This gem can also proc off changing your spec with Dual Talent Specialization, just so you know.

The more you know

P.S: This is the spell you cast when you change spec

Комментарий от 274859

Deivijs says:

Charger costs no mana any more, so this doesn't work any more.

Let me quote some for you, Deivijs.

Insightful Earthsiege Diamond

Chance to restore mana on Spellcast

Where do you see it mentioning the spell needs to take any mana at all?
Ive had this proc from almost every spell in the game, all from mounting my charger to changing Dual spec, and none of those costs any mana to use, but tracked as a spell.

And, as it's been said, no picture no proof, so I spammed my charger for awhile in Dalaran, and here you go:
My proc from using the charger

Edit;

@ those Downrating me;

Dual talent specialization, It doesn't cost all your mana, it just takes all of your mana.. So I'm still correct, as this spell isn't tracked as one that costs mana. Thus, my statement is true.

Комментарий от 4172

I just finished testing this with Flash of Light spam and it indeed gave me 600 mana every time. The 2% proc chance seems to be correct.

It accounted for about 20% of my total mana regen (80% was illumination).

Комментарий от ranu

Comparison in regard to mana regeneration.
To make it more simple I will only use the IED proc and the replenishment buff. Proc gives 600 mana on spellcast and replenishment gives 0.25% of total mana every second.
If we assume that the Insightful Earthsiege Diamond procs approximately every 45 seconds this would translate to the value of (600 / 45 * 5 =) 66,67 mp5. Adding the mana recieved from the extra benefit of Replenishment from the 21 intellect this would mean another (21 * 15 *0,0025 * 5 =) 3,9375 mp5, making the total mana regeneration from this gem 70,6075 mp5.
For the Ember Skyflare Diamond to grant this much in terms of mana regeneration one would have to recieve an extra (70,6075 / 5 / 0,0025 / 15 =) 376,5733 intellect, which means you will need (376,5733 / 2 * 100 =) 18828,67 intellect for ESD to out perform IED.
(The actual value will be lower since Blessing of Kings and eventual talents increase the amount of intellect recieved, and the increased mana pool will make you last longer.)

Комментарий от 366321

(30 spells/minute * 5% proc chance * 600 mana per proc) / 12 5-second slices per minute = 75 mp5

This is not entirely correct.

You cannot simply multiply 30 spells by 5% chance.
The probability of getting 1 proc:

1 spell = 5.00%
2 spells = 9.75%
3 spells = 14.26%
.
.
.
30 spells = 78.54%

A better calculation would be:

30spells/min = 2 second/spell
51% chance to proc = 14 spells
-> 51% chance to proc once every 28 seconds followed by 15 seconds with no procs
-> 51% chance to get 600 mana every 43 seconds
--> 600 mana/43 seconds = 13.95 MP second * 5 seconds = 69.77 MP5

Assuming you cast a spell every 2 seconds you would expect and Average of 70MP5 from this gem.

Комментарий от 79671

Do it work with the HoT of a druid ?

Комментарий от 452565

"Chance to restore mana on SPELLCAST" ^_^

I'm a druid myself, and I could only dream of it proccing when my hots tick =P.

Комментарий от 355490

I have found that with a Holy Pali, this with Tears of the Vanquished (Toc 5 Reg) Works incredibly well of not running me near oom. Having about 23k mana with those two adds near 140 Mp5 to your regen on top of tons of mp5 to start with. Plus the 300+ mana bonus from this--this gem works amazingly for any healing class. On my priest i have found that it does not work AS well as on the pali because your causting flash of light more often on the pali then the priest, thus more spells and more regen opportunities. However in heavier fights it does help a lot esp with the Trinket from TOC of not running you oom. Mana is Mana,any chance you have at getting back what you lost is definately worth it.

Venuswave/Aphordite
Nazgrel
The Edge of Oblivion

Комментарий от iMathias

This item can be used in conjuction with Tears of the Vanquished. It can proc both at the same time, as proven by my combat log:
Alliea gains 600 mana from Alliea's Mana Restore
Alliea gains 500 mana from Alliea's Mana Mana

Комментарий от 469125

I'm a lvl 80 resto druid and i did a couple quick tests- keeping all hots up and spamming nourish as i could, this gave me 600 mana in 111 seconds of casting (27.02mp5) and on a second test 1800 mana in 64 seconds (140mp5). Im glad I made the switch away from the meta that gives 23 spell power and 2%int. Huge improvement especially when you consider fights like the beasts of northrend (in toc10) that go 6 minutes or more. My mp5 is 719 (422 while casting)- with innervate up every 2 minutes and this gem giving me bursts (as much as 1800 mana per min!), I cant imagine going oom.

Комментарий от Santastrauss7000

This was my post in russain version of wowhead. TBH, i'm too lazy to change links, so you have to click them and change to english manualy.
Угасающий алмаз небесного сияния VS Провидческий алмаз землеправителя
From holy paladin pov.

It's not correct to compare just meta-gems as they have different gems to get them working.

Lets compare socket bonuses:
3 red: (12 СПД + 10 ИНТ) * 3 = 36 SP and 30 INT.
red+yellow+blue: (12 СПД + 10 ИНТ) + (20 ИНТ) + (10 ИНТ + 5 МП5) = 12 SP, 40 INT and 5 mp5.
Totals +24 sp VS 10 int and 5 mp5

Now lets add gems themselfs:
(25 SPD + 2% int + 24 SPD) VS (21 int + mana from proc + 10 int + 5 mp5)
According to Elitist Jerks 6 min fight will give us 4800 mana. That sounds a lot, but thats only 67mp5.
So we have (49 spd + 2% int) VS (31 int + 72 mp5)
2% and 31 int. That's easy. 2% = 31, 1% = 15.5, 100% = 1550.
That means that at 1550 int (without BOK but with Arcane Intellect and Mark of the Wild) 2% will be 31 int.
For every 50 above 1550 you get 1 more int from ESD, for every 50 less - 1 less.

So =))
At 1550 int it is really as easy as "49 sp vs 72 mp5".

Комментарий от Azulinde

fjlj's method of calculation cannot be entirely correct, since the mp5 value shouldn't reach 200mp5 until the gem procs every 15 seconds. This cannot happen until your time between casts approaches zero. I've redone the calculation with an approach that is stastically sound:

Mp5 from this meta gem depending on your average time between spellcasts tc:

tc=5 sec mp5=26
tc=4 sec mp5=32
tc=3 sec mp5=40
tc=2 sec mp5=55
tc=1,5 sec mp5=67
tc=1,25 sec mp5=75

====Calculations that lead to the above result====

Let's calculate the actual value of mp5 from this gem. To do this, we need to calculate the average time between procs, this would be:

15 seconds + Ta

where Ta is the average time to gain a proc after the cooldown is finished

Let's calculate Ta. To do this we sum over all points in time at which spell number n is cast, multiplied by the chance that this specific cast and no other triggers Mana Restore. This will give us the average time to proc the effect. The chance Mana Restore doesn't proc is 0,95, the chance it does is 0,05.

Ta = Sum (n=1,infinity)
Ta = (0,05/0,95)*tc* Sum (n=1,infinity)

Evaluting the infinite sum (it converges don't worry) gives exactly 380 according to MatLab so

Ta = 20*tc

tc is your time between spell casts, assuming this is a constant

End result:

Average time for a proc = (15 + 20*tc)
Averge mp5 = 5*600/(15+20*tc)

Комментарий от kuram

For those comparing Insightful Earthsiege Diamond to Beaming Earthsiege Diamond, main points of interest of comparison seem to be missing, as a disc priest.

The main thing is Beaming gives better rapture returns for sure, but you have to consider a disc priest using the Insightful is also getting rapture return's, albeit losing out on the 2% mana. I don't have time to do the math atm, but im pretty sure the mp5 from the proc will outweigh the rapture with 2% bonus mana, considering the proc gemmed priest is also getting rapture. Now that rapture only breaks on shield's as well, versus the amount of shields you would cast and proc the gem, you might not get rapture returns on most of them.

Комментарий от 620450

Actual numbers from a Restoration Shaman in ICC 10:

Marrowgar: 1800 mana / 138 sec = 65.22 mp5
Lady Deathwhisper: 2400 mana / 163 sec = 73.62 mp5
Deathbringer Saurfang: 1800 mana / 188 sec = 47.87 mp5
Festergut: 1800 mana / 172 sec = 52.33 mp5
Rotface: 1800 mana / 153 sec = 58.82 mp5
Professor Putricide: 3000 mana / 312 sec = 48.08 mp5
Blood Prince Council: 1800 mana / 273 sec = 32.97 mp5
Blood Queen Lana'thel: 2400 mana / 239 sec = 50.21 mp5
Valithria Dreamwalker: (n/a; I was taking the portals)
Sindragosa: 2400 mana / 413 sec = 29.06 mp5

Комментарий от Guanyin

Damn Blizz, you're taking an awful load of time to release a Cata version of this gem :[

Комментарий от 49008

How is this proc in Cata? Anyone know?

Комментарий от Carighan

Considering the old WotLK-version keeps up with the current Ember Shadowspirit Diamond in Cataclysm, I doubt we'll see a Cata-version of this soon. It'd blow any other Meta far far faaaar out of the water for healing.

Комментарий от MorganBlack666

I have been testing this Meta gem on a level 80 Resto/Moonkin Druid over the last several days. The Chance to restore mana on spellcast doesn't seem to work any more.

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