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Согласен с тем, что для кастеров-ддшеров кпд этого меча будет много больше, чем для хиллеров. На нем нет хита, что не говорит о нем, как о дд мече, на нем нет мп5, что указывало бы на приоритет для хиллеров, НО, есть одно (как минимум одно) НО!

Ддшер никогда по определению не будет оверддшить на боссах. Тоесть каждый дополнительный прирост одного и того же размера спд или другой характеристики (вплоть до капа, определяющегося билдом каждого класса) даст одинаковый прирост урона.

Что же касается хиллеров, то в среднем, при достижений определенного уровня спд, дальнейший прирост спд будет давать меньший кпд (больше оверхилинга, а среднее значение полезного хила (весь хил минус оверхил) осталось таким же или увеличилось незначительно).

Также стоит отметить, что такие дд кастеры как варлок или маг не могут носить мейсы, следовательно, при выборе оружия они ограничиваются либо мечами, либо кинжалами (посохи для дд кастеров пока что уг). На данный момент существует только одна 226лвл дд-кастерская пушка - эта. паладин же спокойно может носить и 226лвл мейсу и 226 лвл меч, НО ( это уже второе но) мейса имеет мп5, поэтому она на 99% считается хиллерской. По логике вещей вторая вещь - меч, должна быть ддшной. На ней нет хита возможно потому, что дд-кастерские сеты уже дают довольно неплохой хитрейтинг, поэтому для людей, которые зачищают накс по 8ому кругу, и которые уже (вероятнее всего) собрали необходиое количество хита и наконец выбили желанный меч, дополнительный хит бонус будет просто неуместен. поэтому количество оставшихся поинтов из 226 разумнее будет потратить на хаст или крит.

Если не согласны, то пусть шп и тесло шаманы ролят на хиллерскую мейсу, она жже тоже может быть использована как буст дд, там же 520 спд!

Комментарий от 248103

Лоладинам при попытке взять меч надо либо снимать дкп в двойном размере, либо выгонять из гильды :)
Можете минусовать пост :)

Комментарий от Timbero

+1 у меня мейн маг,за то что я холи паладинам привел эти аргументы,меня назвали неадЫкватом и нубом,после чего я не выдержал и послал их,и получил кик из гилдии,холики аргументируют ,что там 37 крита,и эти 37 крита сделают имбо мана реген,и они в соло отпинают любо боса хилясь нон стоп.

Комментарий от 341679

Кто сказал что палу нужно мп5? Поздравляю, ты не разбираешься в холипалах. Крит для холипалов как раз и есть реген маны. Хаст это шанс того, что он быстрее поднимет слак слак ддшников, попавших в волну на сарта+3 ))

Нормальные топ гильдии одевают сначала танков и хилов, а потом дпсеров.

А на это оружие одинаково равноправно претендуют как маги, логи, так и холипалы.
Месу с мп5 берут друиды и жрецы.
И потом, для ролла вещей есть много систем аля епгп, если нету единого мнения в рейде, то епгп решит.

На самом деле виноваты близы, что объединили +к хилу и +к урону, та же ерунда с плащом с сарта+2.

Комментарий от Veitarn

Ерунда - это точно. Никто не говорил, что палу нужно мп5.

Комментарий от Simak

еле-еле выбил сегодня из пала =)

Комментарий от Alzgamer

А вот мне так и не повезло. При мне 3 раза падал. 1 раз снизил РЛ урод, а на 2 дкп не хватило. 3 раз проролил.
А щас не знаю, хожу с Вознеснием.

Комментарий от 955213

как жаль что он только для правой руки , ибо трансмог для фдк был бы просто эпичен

Комментарий от BadCheater

Я что-то пропустил? Мне казалось, меч называется Изменитель...

Healadins saying mages and locks have no right to say "hands off" are kind of arrogant. We can't wield maces. You can. It's as simple as that. If you have more selection, then how is it fair to take this above a caster who doesn't have as much weapon selection?

That said, I totally think any healer that can wield this should take it if it is a considerable upgrade. Healing is important. :)

Комментарий от Bedrayne

As far as Mages/Locks thinking they should get priority, its pretty simple, as someone pointed out already there are a few maces that are almost as good Torch of Holy Fire or the BS BoE crafted Titansteel Guardian. There is simply no dagger even near as good as either of those. The Soulblade (KT Naxx-10) or Haunting Call (Naxx-25 random drop) are the best out there. Pre-Naxx the best 1-h weapon for a mage/lock is Flameheart Spell Scalpel and maybe they shouldn't be irritated at the pali crafted vs theirs, but Blizz certainly dropped the ball there.

Комментарий от tntmax

So far this is the best MH for mages/paladins and probably warlocks too.

Please refrain from childish arguing about who should get this item over others. Doesn't belong here.

Комментарий от 283444

A healer with a sword, don't be ridiculous.

Комментарий от 59715

Ill go for any blade with +hit before this. The Spell Power is nice but at this level in WotLK, casters should be getting hit capped for the upcoming 25's. Give it to the pally.

Комментарий от 128808

A caster sword @ 520 spellpower, and a healing mace @ 520 spellpower. Screwed elemental shaman yet again. qq.

*edit* WTB icecrown cit. already :)

Комментарий от grayfox425

There is no reason to be using SP weapons as a protection paladin anymore. The abilities we have scale poorly using them and you miss out on mitigation opportunities.

for example http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=53595 is based on weapon dps. You'll notice caster/SP based weapons have very low dps. In fact if you compare it to a drop off the same boss http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40402 it's nearly HALF the weapon dps. This means that your white dps and your hammer are suffering.

Not to mention the fact that Last laugh gives you 31 defense and 34 parry whereas turning tide gives no sort of mitigation other than stam which it still has 23 less than last laugh.

Additionally, assuming you had 0 strength and stacked nothing but spell power whereas another pally had 1000 str and 0 spell power he also gets 1.15x his str due to http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=20266 so he'd end up with 1150. Due to the changes in block value you gain 1 block value for every 2 strength, so at base this would give you 575 block value that you miss out on assuming you had all SP gear. However if you factor http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=20135 you get 1.3x that so you have 747.5 block value. (granted this is just for comparison these stats arent really possible given talents and base stats).

Strength is a multifaceted stat for protection paladins, it increases the threat and damage of all of our abilities, increases our block value (which in turn further increases our threat/damage due to http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=61411) and it benefits from kings. Whereas a protection pally using a SP weapon does not get any of these benefits.

I hate to go the petty thottbot route here and argue which class gets the most benefit from what items, but your argument is not only wrong but misleading, I would hate to see a protection paladin not only cripple their threat and mitigation by taking this, but also ruin the chance for a dpser to get a huge upgrade.

EDIT: not sure why my information is getting marked down....if something is faulty with it people should post as such but nobody is.

Комментарий от 75972

Since when did wowhead turn out as the new - this is a "insert class" weapon so hands off you others! ><

There are 3 classes that would want this, mages/locks/paladins (holy only). Since it also hapen to be the best weapon in game for all 3 classes there will obv be alot of bidding. Hopefully most guilds have some sort of dkp/lootorder they use or they will most likely end up as a no guild pretty soon since loot is the single most important reason guilds split from my experience.

Plz go ahead and discuss why this is good for your class but telling others it´s for you and you only is both arrogant and show how little understanding you have for other classes and how their mechanics work.

Комментарий от aquasword

as a holy pally yes i would love this. but seeing as I dont have any problem keepnig a tank up in 25 mans it would be better for a dps to get this. if you have good dps fights become shorter and thess straining on healers anyways and dps is more about numbers than healing is for a pally. for a pally its almost impossible not to overheal.but you cant do over dmg as a dps. you really want the dps to be optimal.

Комментарий от 293058

This is Azuresong Mageblade all over again..

Комментарий от 205089

This sword has the best stats for a holy pally. High Spell power, Int, Haste and Crit. Now if it had Hit on it I would agree no pally should touch it. But since the spell power change swords are wide open to holy pallies.

This is the best holy pally weapon in game currently

Комментарий от 290872

I won the roll on this in a 2 guild joint 25 man raid, the only 25 man Naxx I've gone to. I certainly don't deserve it since 95% of my gear is from 10 man Naxx, but I love how shiny it is, especially with +63 spell damage enchant. I'll probably use this weapon for the rest of Wrath unless I get in a random 25 man Lich King raid and happen to win that roll too! :) I am a mage btw.

Комментарий от 302919

This long tedious string of comments can be summed up as:

1) This is currently the best-in-slot weapon for: Holy Paladin, Mage, Warlock.
2) There is no reason any class mentioned in No.1 should have priority on it over any other, except:
>A) Retarded people arguing otherwise (Examples: shamanlover, wooberries, etc)
>B) Most serious guilds distribute items by loot council
>C) Loot council favors progression, which constitutes gearing healers and tanks first - unless Ulduar will contain bosses with extremely difficult enrage timers, in which case the gear priority for progression would shift to DPS over Healers (unlikely at best).
>D) The only reason casuals are arguing about this is because right now content is far too easy so this weapon is obtainable to those who would bicker over loot instead of putting guild progression first.

For the "special" of the players in this game, refer to these pages on how to play your own class, and have a fantastic evening!

Warlock:
http://elitistjerks.com/f80/t37900-dots_you_affliction_warlock_thread/
Mage:
http://elitistjerks.com/f75/t37364-frostfire_bolt_thread/
Paladin:
http://elitistjerks.com/f76/t35975-holy_paladin_guide_wotlk/

Комментарий от 87957

"I come to you now... at the turn... of the tide..."
-Naga Myrmidon

Комментарий от 307138

I bet the developers were just laughing when they made this sword knowing how many debates will be had over which class it belongs to.

Комментарий от 195759

Im a mage if a holy pally roled for this i would not get annoyed or say something to them it is perfect for them same it is with a mage so stop the debate its amazing how many people dont get the new spellpower setup its all rolled into one so deal with it. if a holy pally didnt roll for this i would ask them why lol

Комментарий от chimeric

ima holy pally, i would kill for something like this....

well...maybe not kill...

but maybe i would...

Комментарий от 150547

Picked up this baby tonight. Stuck a +63 spellpower enchant on it and i'm assuming this weapon will serve me well for a very long time :D. Yeah please stop arguing about who it belongs to. I'm sure the mages in the guild were secretly cursing me for it but i got it and was congratulated for it. Its hands down the best weapon for a holy paladin at the moment.

Комментарий от 158727

Currently has the Highest Spellpower of any item in WotLK, excluding its Mace Counterpart the Torch of Holy Fire.

Комментарий от 297872

With the changes to mana regen would the mace be a better option for holy pallys?

Комментарий от 323328

Found a cool video of this item on a warlock
Click here for the video

Комментарий от 241428

I'll tell you what irks me about this whole discussion. yes, I see how turning tide is the best in-slot weapon for a holy paladin. But let's look at what paladins have access to in comparison to mages and warlocks.

2 maces of 461 and 520 spellpower drop off of KZ. 1 mace of 461 spellpower drops off of loatheb. 1 mace of 461 spellpower that drops in regular eye of eternity (wth?) compared with the greatstaff? Good grief that's not fair.

I look at that and think, "wow!" paladins have so many opportunities to get a quality 1h. Then i look at mage/warlock options.

one 520 spellpower sword off of kz, and one 461 spellpower sword off of gothik the harvester. Those are the only two weapons you can actually hope to see on any given raid. I love haunting call, but it's a trash drop and i've only ever seen it drop once. So good luck with that. Well to be honest, i've only seen each of the 3 drop only once.

I don't think pallys should be taking the turning tide over caster dps unless the casters already have it. Then look at the ratio of mage/warlocks in a raid compared to holy paladins. it's ridiculous that warlocks/mages have so little to choose from and then have to hope a paladin doesn't take turning tide when there are 2 maces that also drop off of KZ that warlocks/mages can't use.

that's my gripe and it ^&*!es me off everytime i think about it. I've seen turning tide, haunting call, and life and death, each drop only once since i've been clearing naxx for the last 3 months. And i'm still using a greatstaff of the nexus, waiting for something to replace it with. And i've had the surplus limb in my bank for the last month. i'm ^&*!ed.

Комментарий от 5326

2 maces of 461 and 520 spellpower drop off of KZ. 1 mace of 461 spellpower drops off of loatheb. 1 mace of 461 spellpower that drops in regular eye of eternity (wth?) compared with the greatstaff? Good grief that's not fair.

I look at that and think, "wow!" paladins have so many opportunities to get a quality 1h. Then i look at mage/warlock options.

Your argument of "well they have all this other stuff they could get" is instantly voided by the fact that a paladin could say the same thing of your massive pool of available staves. Also two of those 1H are weighted with spirit which is kinda like someone putting Agility on a caster staff and recommending you grab it.

Комментарий от 241428

No freaking doubt. 37 crit is less than a percent of crit. Paladins taking this over mages/warlocks just because it happens to be the best inslot weapon, are totally being selfish. Let your dps take this and sacrifice a little bit. Good grief.

pally-"OMG OMG it's the best inslot for me"
lock/mage-"gg thanks for taking the only 226 item i can use just because you get 37more crit out of it. jerk."

Комментарий от cangiz

I recently upgraded to this sword from using http://www.wowhead.com/?item=37169 as a holy paladin. The stats are amazing, but one thing I noticed is the weapon is 0.5 speed faster.

Well you must be thinking, why would a holy pally care about weapon speed.

Simple. I personally(along with the majority of holy paladins) keep up seal of wisdom, because of the glyph. Now if I come close to running out of mana, I like to call it out in vent, and go whack on the boss for a bit(like 6 or 7 seconds). Paladins get a LOT of haste(15% from talents if we judge once every minute, almost 15% from gear, 3% from moonkin/ret aura). This brings the weapon speed down to 1.3 in a raid situation.

Seal of wisdom has a chance to restore 4% of your total mana pool every hit.

With 27k mana buffed thats (0.04 * 27000 = 1080). After 5 seconds of whacking, that can be almost 4000 mana.

This is equivalent to a priest not healing for a short amount of time and getting back a high amount of mana, but priests cannot acheive 4000 mp/5 while not casting without an innervate(at least i think so).

Tl;DR - With this sword's relatively fast speed, I like to stand close to the boss while healing, because I can get 4000 mp/5 just by hitting with seal of wisdom.

Комментарий от 330405

This is my turn to express how in love I am with this lil' sword. I am dedicated to the goal of getting it by day one Lich King was launched. Thing is it never dropps for me. I have killed Kel'Thuzad in hc mode for the last 11 weeks in a row, never saw it dropping, so no use for me if I stay atop my guild's DKP table for so long. In the meanwhile I have seen Holy Torch dropped 3 times (always passed for somene else), the 2H axe twice and the tanking axe 4 times! So, if this question makes any sense to you all, can you please tell me, has this sword lower chances to drop, intentionally by blizzard? Or is it my damn bad luck? I mean, if all items share the same chances, this is calculated to be at 21.5% per item. 11 consequent runs and this guild had no luck to see it ever? (Even more strange: Not the Voice of Reason, the healing shield has ever dropped, also! So, for you who love numbers, it's 2*21.5= 43% possibilities for someone to see one of those items, or any other combination of 2 items dropping at Kel hc. So, if I didnt manage to get one of those is like i threw the dice 11 times in a row, and never had a result bigger then 7! Now you know why I never gamble ;)

Комментарий от JangoDarkhand

Definitely a great main hand pally weapon. Maybe best, int, crit, sp, and haste are all nice for healers as well as dps, but you might be better of as dps with something that has hit, but if your gear all has hit, this is nice. Also, staves can sometimes be better for caster dps who can use them. ( Ex: Damnation from 25 Four Horsies)

Комментарий от 196175

looks cool with pally "set"...
http://www.wowhead.com/?compare=40210:41394:40298:40316:40204:40396:40401

Комментарий от 351052

Ok, so I have been a long time reader, and all this discussion has forced my hand.

I am a mage, and this is BIS for me.

This is BIS for paladins and warlocks as well.

There are a few things I want to point out...

1. There are NO dagger equivalents to this, haunting call is a hit weapon and hit is irrelevant with a hit cap.
2. Staffs are bad. Straight up, bad. They are for stats, and generally tip towards healers' interests (GENERALLY), if anyone.
3. Mages and warlocks cannot wield maces. We need spellpower. We are made for stacking SP above all else, while keeping other stats in check such as crit% and haste%.

Paladins have a 'thing' for what's it called again... Oh right, overhealing. Many paladins are gemming down SP in order to get intellect, haste, or crit. Your spells already destroy anyone elses in single targets. You don't have an AOE heal per se, and thus you are single target healing... Generally for well over 16k.

We have DoTs, AOEs, large crit BONUSes, and general spell spamming... To max dps we spam our spells 24/7.
You may too, but you know what I mean.

Yes, this is BIS for you, but not because it is so damn amazing for you, but because it is just the best around. We need it because it is the best for us, period. We need max spellpower. I'm sure if a mace dropped with 60 crit/60 haste and say 450 spellpower, you would probably want that more (if you are smart).

Show me a paladin with low spellpower and I will show you a bad paladin who hasn't geared his non-weapons up yet, of the same name.

My 2 cents.

Комментарий от 323689

Still the best holy paladin weapon currently in 3.1.0, sadly.

Комментарий от Ziharkk

Even with Ulduar out, this thing is still the boss. http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/images/news/2009/april/04_18_9767_1.jpg The Soulscribe's stats (granted, this weapon does not take into account any boss hard modes or Algalon) are just a pinch over the Tide, so this bestial sword will still be drooled over for most guilds that won't be downing Yogg-man until Blizzard's newest gift to bads and casuals Lootalon (thats Emalon all you bads out there) is farmed very thoroughly (unless of course, you are in Ensidia or Vodka, then yeah, yoggy is on total farm). Fortunately for caster dps, the Soulscribe is a dagger. What this means, kids, is that this whole paladins can totally roll on this legitimately argument (it is itemized perfectly for a healadin, but I don't think blizz intended this- notice their is a weapon designed for each roll? Torch, Tide, Laugh, Journey, Envoy... /facepalm) is completely null and void, since good luck finding a paladin that can use a dagger. Rack one up for dps... sorta... now if my guild would just learn that dps are just as important as that kid spamming excessive overheals... <Edit> oh, and as a response to the poster above me, think Val'anyr. Legendary mace? Yeah, paladins have it hard.

Комментарий от Innit

I have seen many fights about this sword, and it's 'omfg better for warlocks/mages/paladins.'

Truth is, it's Naxx25 best in slot for ALL of those classes, now would you please stop arguing about it.

Комментарий от 10427

This is still holding pretty strong against Ulduar loot so if you're guild can't swing Auriaya or Yogg on 25man, there's still a chance to get a Top 3 best in slot weapon without much fuss.

Комментарий от 169626

You might flame me, but hear me out.

My main is a warlock. I don't think this is the best weapon out there for affliction warlocks, really. It lacks spirit.

For those who don't know why spirit is now important for warlocks... simple answer.

Glyph of Life Tap. 20% of your spirit becomes spell power.

Example: If you have say about 263 spirit... that translates into 52.6 spell power. That is dramatic. If you keep stacking spirit, you could hit the 100's. So, a 1 hander with spirit on it and an offhander with spirit on it... will trump The Turning Tide easily.

Bye bye, stacking stamina stat for warlocks.

Комментарий от Denamic

I've had this drop 3 times now, and I've lost the roll every single time. Balls.
At least I've got priority on it next time it drops. Yay for good guilds!
Doing another run tomorrow. I really hope it drops again.
Actually, I really hope we can do all of Naxx in one run, because I can't come for the planned continuation run..
*fingers crossed*

Комментарий от arubis

TTT is perfect weapon for Healadins, Warlocks and Mages

as a Warlock, I don't have any reason so that pallys mustn't roll on this candy..

P.S. remember that sweet BoK or BoW on you.. or your mana-tap upheals..=D

Комментарий от 368426

This is so definitely a pally weapon. We gear healers and tanks first and there isn't anything for a pally. The mace in Ulduar is horrible, this is it folks. So all of you locks and mages can wait for it if they want it. As for keeping tanks up in 25 mans? Which fights are you talking about? Keeping a tank up in a 25 man is easy... much easier than 10 mans or even heroics where there aren't a bunch of other healers that back you up. I have no mana problems whatsoever, still want more crit and haste

Комментарий от Darkravager

More to the point.... TT is STILL the BiS for holydins, whereas both mages and locks have better kit available in both Ulduar10 and 25.
Add to that the fact that while cloth & leather itemisation in ulduar is fine, EleSham & Holydin stats are somehow on eachother's kit, anyone in raid with a holydin not yet wielding this, is just being a stupid prick if they dont pass for the pala, tbh.

Комментарий от Darkravager

Paladins have a 'thing' for what's it called again... Oh right, overhealing. Many paladins are gemming down SP in order to get intellect, haste, or crit. Your spells already destroy anyone elses in single targets. You don't have an AOE heal per se, and thus you are single target healing... Generally for well over 16k.

o_O

L2 hPriest AND holydin dude. Pala's are about measured response, since beacon only echoes effective healing. Overheal = manawaste, and unlike the hPriest with their dual/infinite manabar (in case you're confused : Innervate) a paladin's mana will only go as far as the Divine Plea & Sapphire Owl cooldowns can carry it.
And "gemming down SP"? I'm not sure what you're smoking, but the only reason to EVAR gem SP is to activate a meta or socket bonus in the event you don't have the JC level to use the 27int gems yet. SP gems are like compensating low int with MP5 when you're in questblues. It works to tide you over for heroics, but take it to raid and you're a laughingstock.

Комментарий от 180981

By Corvan 7 days ago (Patch 3.1.2)
Or, you could get the Mace that drops from the same boss, and let the dps casters get their BiS (until Uld)

This'd work well. except for the small part about the mace not having crit.... we healadins love our crit.Mace vs. Sword Im no expert but id say any semi intelligent healadin that knows how to gear would say sword.

Комментарий от 292580

locks and mages shouldn't even roll on this, this was made specifically for holy pallys

Комментарий от 425938

looks kinda like a casters frostmourne... a little different, but with blizz' imagination, thats where they copied it from prob

Комментарий от masterzyck

its just as good for a warlock as it is for a mage and a paladin (holy) nuff said!

Комментарий от p51mustang24

As a mage I only had to roll against one other person to win this weapon. The stats are a very healthy blend.

I now have an 80 healadin and would kill to have this drop again. Rolling (*edit* rolling for maces) against druids, priests and shammies can be hard; theres usually at *least* 4 or 5 in any given raid. However its not uncommon to have 3 or less mages/locks in a raid. This means that your chance of getting it on any given run is much greater. On a side note, KT25 also drops one of the best holy pally shields as well.

Комментарий от 393779

The Turning Tide probally refers to WC3, where Arthas says Frostmourn can be the Turning tide or something near tht and since the model is Replica of Frostmourne, i think thats probally it. Correct me if im wrong :)

Комментарий от 365772

Some1 explain the difference of normal 25 and herioc 25? Damn being 80 is confusing.

Комментарий от Dyler

The blade looks a LITTLE like frostmourne, though not completely, or at all. It has a cool model.

Комментарий от demonguard

This weapon matches incredibly well with the 251 version of Dark Coven's Regalia.

I submitted a screenshot depicting this.

Комментарий от Grimdy

Can anyone confirm this still drops on 25 Normal? I have 24 kills at the time of this posting and it hasn't dropped. Literally everything else he drops has dropped several times. Is this item no longer available on 25 Normal? Proof: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/alexstrasza/Grimdy/advanced

edit 18 Jan 2014: Now at 30 kills and no drop.

Комментарий от Daraksus

Odd that Prot Pally isn't listed.... I got this on my protection paladin. I absolutely never use holy.