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Why are SP so strong in pvp now?

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Сообщение от Xepp

Hello!
I am fairly new to pvp and recently I seen a lot of posts about how strong Shadow priests is in pvp in patch 4.0.1.
So I logged my shadow priest to check. He isn't very good geared but decent, Furious set with wrath/relent offpieces (about 1.1k res, 3.4k sp and 750 haste) and I must say that I couldn't see that shadow priests are op right now. I did some duels, had like 70-30 winrate but was mostly bad geared ppl that did wanted to duel. My dots ticked for about 1-1.5k and critted for ~3k. This isnt very much imo since my feral's bleed tick for 5-8k (rip and rake).

So my question is, what is it that make shadow priests so strong in pvp and why are everyone crying for nerfs on them?

// Curious ShadowP.

Сообщение от Neonz

I agree, I had an 80 priest with low decent gear, 5.5k gs and it was my alt before and still is my alt after 4.0.1.

I don't see us as being overpowered atall.
I'd like to see people say 'why' were OP. Then I'd think, but people are just crying and I don't know why..

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Сообщение от Xepp

It's a number of things really. Their damage first of all is ridiculous, nuff said, thats the main reason. They also have a silly amount of tricks to use if theyre in trouble - dispersion, psychic horror, silence - if all of these are used then there really arent many classes that can beat them 1v1. The exception might be good warriors and any feral druid (they kinda beat everything...). It's also an easy class to play - thats partly why people hate classes like frost mages for example, you need very little skill to defeat almost all opponents.

Edit: Oh and by the way I am a priest.

I can agree that even if feral bleeds tick harder, our dots are very easy to apply and take like 5s to get all 3 up. But other then that.. I found myself rarely having the time to cast more then 1-2 MB / duel and maybe 2-3 MF.. I just have to practise more and try it some more!

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Сообщение от cloudp

Yeah. Shadow's actually got a lot of issues when played. Yes, pushing 3 DoT buttons is easy. Good luck doing that on a dispelling, pillar humping Paladin. Does it sound as easy now?

It's all about perspective. Shadow is strong (As opposed to it's big weakness on previous WotLK seasons), but not by definition overpowered.

Think of Shadow's weakness: Line of Sight, great positional requirement, and susceptibility to interrupts. Now, think of those on a Duel. LoS is almost always a non-issue (outside org duels), positional requirement when melees must stick on you and spellcasters don't have LoS stuff to hide is basically granted for everything that's not Psychic Scream, and you're bound to face classes that can't dispel anything you do (while most arena comps will have some sort of dispel. Any healer DPS comp will clear 2/3 of your dots, and possibly your fears or silences (the latter is not common, since you're bound to be silencing the dispeller).

(Note: I know LoS can be used in the Priest's favor too. I count it as a weakness because you are a nuker, and it's a known fact that if a nuker stalls, he's really bound to meet an early grave soon without reset abilities (invis, vanish, prowl and the likes). Once a priest engages in a 1v1 battle, without rocket boots it's a battle to the death.)

No one can comment much about Shadow's state before even being level 85, but I've heard the cries since 3.3 released... That's before Cataclysm talents were even out.

I'm going to have to go against you in that, Got. By far. Your arguments can be so easilly turned.

"Look let's not have the whole 'meh the game isnt based around 1v1 so stfu' discussion. And I'm sorry but shadow is easy to play. While it might be more difficult to play them in arena than it is to play them in BGs, it's easier to play a shadow priest in arena than it is to play certain other classes."

Like which class? You're making a completelly baseless assumption that supports your argument. What do you have to back it up?

"Any class is easy to play 1v1, I don't see your arguement at all. The damage is no more ridulous than 70% of the other specs/classes. If you get to freecast MF and MB you're just playing bads."
This is funny actually, I can't find one true statement in any of this paragraph. Any class is easy 1v1? What does that even mean? It's certainly not true for some classes, it depends on what you're facing. (Warrior vs Mage for example, you think it's easy to play the warrior?). And like I said, it isn't so much the damage of priests that people complain about as much as their little gimmicks like silence and psychic horror and fear. Their damage is also pretty high to boot. Pick a class which requires a little more skill next time. Maybe go play a frost mage? I hear theyre even harder to play than shadow priests.

"it depends on what you're facing. (Warrior vs Mage for example, you think it's easy to play the warrior?)"

What do you want to prove by saying that? I could keep citing random classes and end in a loop. It proves nothing.

Their gimmicks? OK, Frost should play without Deep Freeze and Water Elemental and Frost Nova. Now that will take skill!
The fact that we possess those tools proves, once again, nothing. A Frost is able to score MUCH, MUCH, MUCH longer CC chains on melee targets and fairilly longer CC chains on spellcasters [Triple Poly+Improved CS) than we can (albeit our damage not being stopped like in a Poly chain. Once again... I'm going to have to go with the "1v1 doesn't matter" point). Does that make frost take less or more skill?

Actually, a well-played shadow has a lot to deal with. Managing burst phases with Mana drain phases, keeping shields if needed or being forced into emergency healers (hint: No other dps has to make this choice - it takes an extra deal of awareness to switch), DoTting the correct targets, effectivelly target switch while managing mana, scoring as many double(+) fears as possible, timing Horror and Silence correctly (They will not kill abosulutelly any decent team in the first minute of a match, you can't spam them at will like you do in a duel when going for a kill), Fading the right stuff... Oh, there's a lot more than people see to Shadow. They're just used to facing Shadow priests, they mostly don't know their actual mechanics.

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Сообщение от cloudp

I'd also like to sort something out, I never said that shadow was easy to play because it's all about damage. It's easy to play, like a mage, because, like a mage, it's easy to do everything which you are meant to do to max your potential. I can apreciate the decision about when to heal requiring a little experience and skill but let's see what else you came up with:
DoTting the correct targets This counts as skill does it? timing Horror and Silence correctlyI once was speaking to a DK about which class required more skill and he said DKs do because 'you have to time your silence'. Do you think DKs require skill? This is about communication within your team rather than skill really.

Don't really want to make my wall of text any longer at this point.

You're still making no sense.

Yes, DoTting the correct targets requires forecast. Quite a bit, actually. If you just SW:Pain a target about to be Blinded, you failed. If you are DoTting something about to be sapped, you failed. Polymorph can count as a separate situation glyphed, I admit.

Isn't that what skill is about? Being able to predict your own team and the opponent's movements?

And if you go that way (the point about timings), which class requires skill? Is any class not about timings? In fact, I believe we have among the steepest timings (SW:Deathing Polymorph. SW:Deathing BLIND or REPENTANCE (Skilled players can do that much. Can you? SW:Deathing an instant cast spell?), Mass Dispelling preemptivelly (Cast MD -before- the paladin casts Divine Shield, so that he doesn't even have a single GCD to maneuver). Are you telling me that doesn't take skill and forecast of the situation, as well as flawless class knowledge? Stop calling on other classes. We're discussing Shadow Priests. Your argument is as weak as "Because DKs take little skill, Shadow is OP." How much sense does that even make is beyond me.

Of course you can use "walls of text" as a shield. You are ignoring half of my points, and it's not because of sparing the readers some slack - At least, be sure I will read it.

If you consider "Everything you are meant to do to max your potential" what you state, your scope is terribly limited. You exclude a lot of what differs a great Shadow Priest from an Excelent Shadow Priest. Your own limitation clouds your argument.

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