What existed before the universe?

Сообщение от 168916

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Сообщение от Ksero

If the universe cycles an infinite number of times, then isn't the probability that we will end up with Earth again inevitable?
Who said the universe cycles an infinite amount of times, for all we know it could cycle 10 times then "poof" out of existence.

Edit: Saying there was a time before the big bang doesn't mean that something has always existed, just that the big bang might not have been the start.

Reread my post... "if". I'm not presenting known facts, but only postulating the possibilities. So, reread my post, and answer the question.

"If" the universe cycles infinitely then yes, i guess it would be inevitable that we would end up with this earth and all of its events happening again an infinite amount of times. However, there's nothing to suggest that is what happens.

Сообщение от Jubilee

I believe self-aware beings can only evolve from system that itself is based in self-awareness. I don't know if that means there is some self-aware god or force, or that the universe itself is self-aware insofar as we are part of the universe, or what. I do believe that there is more to existence that a ceaseless repetition.

Сообщение от MyTie

"If" the universe cycles infinitely then yes, i guess it would be inevitable that we would end up with this earth and all of its events happening again an infinite amount of times. However, there's nothing to suggest that is what happens.

Agreed. It's just a fun thing to consider.I'm not arguing against free will or destiny. I am saying that the Penrose news has no more to say about those things than the movement of the planets does.

I never said that Penrose news article gave me all the answers to the universe, but it uncovered some interesting questions that come from genuine scientific study of the universe. Why can't I discuss these questions? Stop being such a stick in the mud.I do believe that there is more to existence that a ceaseless repetition.

I certainly hope so.

Сообщение от Magician22773

I am going with one of two possible theories.

I am leaning towards nothing, before God created it.

But in absence of that, I choose to believe the Men In Black theroy, and there was probably some old gym shorts in the locker before we were put in there.

Сообщение от MyTie

I'm going with "I don't know".

Сообщение от Ksero

I'm going with "I don't know".

Same here, until something inclines me to think otherwise.

Сообщение от 168916

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Сообщение от MyTie

You can, obviously - why can't I answer? My degree is in physics, after all, it's possible that I have something to say about this stuff that might make you understand it better.Yeesh. You were the one that diminished my ability to discuss it, not vice versa. Also, argumentum ad verecundiam is new for you. A refreshing reprieve from the straw man bit.My point here is simply that science is only relevant in context. Things like the Heisenberg principle or relativity or Penrose's repeatedly cycling universe sound like they have a lot of philosophical implications, but as with all science the only part we can be confident about is the formalism (i.e. the math). When it comes to the interpretation (i.e. what it means), not even the people who made the theories can really say very much, so it's a misapplication of science to conclude that this or that intuitive approach to life is more or less valid because of a new cosmological theory.Your right. I should stop writing my doctoral dissertation on the implications of a repeating universe.

All sarcasm aside, if a group of scientists get together and say "the universe might be repeating", then I say "we might be doing the same things over and over", isn't some sort of philosophical and metaphysical conclusion that you need to lamblast as unfounded. It's just a wowhead post about a cool thought I had. So, address it as such, not as if I'm parading myself around as Socrates. Seriously, why do you feel the need to argue against it?The bizarre thing is that this theory would actually have some scientific merit - it explains the fine tuning problem for one. It's tantalizing to wonder whether a notion like this could be disproven - so far as I know it can't, but one wonders.
Now see, this is the kind of thought that you just got done telling me was akin to "astrology".

Сообщение от 168916

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Сообщение от 204878

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Сообщение от donnymurph

Really, what exist before the universe? if nothing, how can nothing exist? was there anything before that? and if there is a god like being that created everything, how did he exist? where did he come from? what created him/her?

honestly, its freaky. how did anything really start, and why? where did everything come from, and how could anything have existed before anything exist? but then i wonder how anything could NOT have existed.

also, what is outside of the universe? ugg, it just doesnt make any sense.

Chuck Norris had sex with Mother Nature. This is what we now refer to as the Big Bang.

Сообщение от Lombax

Сообщение от 168916

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Сообщение от MyTie

The bizarre thing is that this theory would actually have some scientific merit - it explains the fine tuning problem for one. It's tantalizing to wonder whether a notion like this could be disproven - so far as I know it can't, but one wonders.
Now see, this is the kind of thought that you just got done telling me was akin to "astrology".
In what way?

The fine tuning problem is an argument devised be creationists which they believe supports the notion that there's a god, it's not science.

And while we're on the subject, it's one of the worst such arguments, because life has to exist to make the statement "isn't it amazing that we're here, alive, in a place where it's possible to be alive? Wow, a god must have made it possible!".

I haven't made any creationist arguments in this thread. I'm simply trying to rebuff fenomas for being so dismissive. I proposed that, if the universe repeats, that we are doomed to repeat the same actions, so we should make them good actions. To this, fenomas told me that I was dealing with astrology. I told him not to be a stick in the mud. Then he tells me his degree in physics makes him right, and that I can't make conclusions based on theories. I told him I was talking about "if" and then he entertained some wonder, his own "if", which I pointed out. Then he asks "In what way", and you replied with a counter creationist argument. The whole thing is a tangled mess of something that should be very simple.

If we are in a repeating universe, lets try to make sure our actions are good.

That doesn't need a quantum physics argument dumped on it. So fenomas can go soak his head and stop arguing with everything I say.

Сообщение от 204878

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Сообщение от Ksero

It makes sense that we live in a universe fine tuned for us, because if it wasn't fine tuned for us we wouldn't exist at all, I don't see what the problem is.

Сообщение от Lombax

Сообщение от Ksero

It makes sense that we live in a universe fine tuned for us, because if it wasn't fine tuned for us we wouldn't exist at all, I don't see what the problem is.

We still have the possiblity to exist even if this universe is not fine-tuned for us.

by fine tuned for us, i mean that the laws of physics have set constants that all seem to "fit" and work in some way that makes it look like it was set up for us. if one of the constants was different then the universe wouldn't "work." so we have to be in a universe fine tuned for us.

Сообщение от Skreeran

If the universe has repeated itself an infinite number of times, then yes, I would have done exactly what I'm doing now an infinite amount of times.

But I would have also become a serial killer an infinite number of times. And in an infinite number of those universes, I would not even exist. In an infinite number of universes, humanity was united in peace and harmony. In an infinite number of universes, humanity destroyed itself. In an infinite number of universes, humanity establishes contact with extraterrestrial life. In an infinite number of universes, humanity was the only intelligence in the universe.

And so on.

The point is, an infinitely repeating universe does have a lot of philosophical implications, but they all seem to cancel each other out in my opinion. It all comes back to what I'm doing in this universe right now.

What existed before the universe?

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