Organized Religion, the Bible and the Will of God

Сообщение от MyTie

So, I'm really less worried about Native Americans than I am Catholics...

lol

I was kind of hoping you would miss that post. I'm not trying to start something with you, just stating my perspective.

Сообщение от Eccentrica

Сообщение от MyTie

As a Christian, I really have enough to worry about keeping my own soul safe, and I don't have time to pass judgment on entire populations.

But you're quite willing to pass judgement on raped women and homosexuals. I guess you've time to judge some but not others.

I saw this coming a mile away.

Just because I won't pass sweeping judgments on vast numbers of people, doesn't mean I'm afraid to say "homosexuality is immoral", because that's what it says in the Bible. I'm not completely blind to an action as wrong, or afraid of saying so. Saying "this person is going to hell", is not the same as saying "this action is wrong".

But, the "raped women" thing does put a question mark above my head. I have no idea what you are saying there. I'm hoping your not trying to draw a parallel between my pro-life stance, and a lack of Christian value. That wouldn't get you much more than a facepalm.

Сообщение от Gone

Сообщение от Eccentrica

Сообщение от MyTie

You made an unfortunate comment in that thread for which I saw no retraction about how pregnant women 'wanted that *!@# in them in the first place'. I didn't say so at the time, but my thoughts immediately flew to that poor girl gang raped on a bus.

If you thought better and retracted that comment then I apologize and will withdraw my remark.

You're placing my comment in the context of "rape victims", which it was never intended to be, and was in fact clarified, to which I indicated that my intention was to explain that sex is a choice, which quite clearly isn't talking about rape victims. I'm not apologizing for anything, nor do I want you to withdraw your remark. I want everyone to see it. It doesn't make me look bad, when you are vicious and argumentative. So, by all means, continue.

Сообщение от Hyperspacerebel

So, I'm really less worried about Native Americans than I am Catholics...

lol

I was kind of hoping you would miss that post. I'm not trying to start something with you, just stating my perspective.

I don't really care. Truthfully it just amuses me.

Сообщение от Gone

As a Christian, I really have enough to worry about keeping my own soul safe, and I don't have time to pass judgment on entire populations.

But you're quite willing to pass judgement on raped women and homosexuals. I guess you've time to judge some but not others.

Don't start slinging personal attacks and bringing stuff in from other threads. Especially when he was doing his best to be as non judgmental as possible in the post you were responding to.

Our comments everywhere are representative of our opinions and thoughts and feelings. And we are accountable for what we say, also please see my last to MyTie.

That doesn't mean we should be trying to drudge up old arguments and beat a dead horse. And I think you are misinterpreting what he originally said. What I took from his comment is that if a person is willing to have sex, then they're taking on a risk and they should be willing to live with the consequences of this (pregnancy). He never said anything about rape victims, and I doubt that's what he meant.

Сообщение от Eccentrica

Argument is not bad, and I have nothing to hide. If you view my very pointed and carefully posed questions to you as vicious, then you do. I can't do anything about that. If I encounter inconsistencies in posted opinion I will question them.

Now if you are willing to go so far as to publicly state that in keeping with your religious faith that both Ghandi and the Dalai Lama were/are immoral, because you must trust absolutely in your teachings and place unwavering faith in your ... well.... faith, then how on earth can you turn around and say that Abortion is wrong, but it's ok for rape victims?

If your faith is so staunch, how is it that you are allowed to selectively apply it? And this, btw, is where I have been heading to these past days.

Сообщение от MyTie

Now if you are willing to go so far as to publicly state that in keeping with your religious faith that both Ghandi and the Dalai Lama were/are immoral, because you must trust absolutely in your teachings and place unwavering faith in your ... well.... faith, then how on earth can you turn around and say that Abortion is wrong, but it's ok for rape victims?

I don't feel that rape victims should be allowed to abort their children. Though, that doesn't mean that I think women who are raped deserved it, or that they enjoyed it, or anything like that. You are twisting my words, and in an off topic manner. I suspect that you know you are. But, my views are well thought out, and consistent. This endeavor of yours, to get me to be self contradictory, or something, is harder than you think it will be.

Сообщение от Eccentrica

Сообщение от MyTie

Well, I must say I am rather surprised. Points for sticking to your guns as far as your faith goes

My faith in God has nothing to do with abortion, at least, not directly. There is nothing in the Bible about abortion. The value I place in life is why I do not stand for killing innocent humans. That's why I called you out for being off topic. That doesn't belong in this thread.but I am rather happy that religion as a whole is dying. Non religious people seem to care more about people and humanity as a whole.Religion will be around a long time after we are both gone. I imagine that it will probably become very popular again, toward the end of my life. Society swings around on its importance of religion. It goes from wildly important to the point of enforced by law, down to not important at all. I mean, look at history. It won't be long before it is popular again. However, I don't look forward to that. I kind of like religion being unpopular, so I know that my allies within Christianity aren't there because it's the cool thing to do.

I do find it hilarious that you think non religious people care more about people. Religious people give more to chairity. Religious people are more likely to give to food banks. Religious people provide more free medical care to the world than any secular government (thanks largely to Catholicism). I think you have a biased opinion, based on your personal experiences.

Сообщение от Gone

Well, I must say I am rather surprised. Points for sticking to your guns as far as your faith goes, but I am rather happy that religion as a whole is dying. Non religious people seem to care more about people and humanity as a whole.

Ciao.

I always thunk it's funny when people say something like that then say "K, bye" because they know half the people posting in the thread are going to take issue with the idiotic thing they just said.

1) Religion as a whole is not dying. Something like 90% of the people in the world are religious in some way. There are more people of faith on the planet now than there have ever been.

2) Non religious people do not care more about humanity as a whole. Saying that, and by implication saying that religious people care less about humanity as a whole, is an absurd judgement.

Not that I'm going to take the person who calls an unborn child a parasite seriously. Clearly I can see your deep and abiding love for humanity there.

Сообщение от Ksero

Not that I'm going to take the person who calls an unborn child a parasite seriously. Clearly I can see your deep and abiding love for humanity there.

Not to nitpick but in technical terms it is a parasite, I don't view it that way personally, but you can't deny that it fits the definition.
Parasite - An organism that lives in or on another organism (its host) and benefits by deriving nutrients at the host's expense.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2246436/Census-2011-religion-data-reveal-4m-fewer-Christians-1-4-atheist.html

in the UK, there was a 10% increase in the number of people without a religion in the last 10 years, it may not be "dying" but it is on the decline.

Сообщение от Gone

Not to nitpick but in technical terms it is a parasite, I don't view it that way personally, but you can't deny that it fits the definition.

Going by the biological classification a human being, in any state of development, is an omnivore. All mammals feed from their mother in the womb, a fetus isn't a parasite.

in the UK, there was a 10% increase in the number of people without a religion in the last 10 years, it may not be "dying" but it is on the decline.

Using a sample of a single country in only a ten year period, out of a population of billions of people on the planet at any given time in at least a 15,000 year period of human history, and saying that religion on a whole is on the decline, is so statistically incorrect I don't even have a response.

EDIT: I'm not trying to sound like an &*!@#$% btw, I realize how that may have come off and I know I was sort of picking on you earlier, it's not my intention.

Сообщение от Skreeran

I can't say whether or not it's in decline on the whole. It sure seems that way on the internet, though. Seems l can't go to a single Youtube video or web Article that discusses religion and has comments enabled without an atheist in the top comments.

Maybe it's just because atheists tend to be extremely vocal in their beliefs. I don't know.

Edit: Here's an interesting article on the matter.

Сообщение от Squishalot

That makes sense though. Religion, at least in Australia, is generally picked up by people in lower socioeconomic status groups who are less likely to be heavily online on anything past Facebook and Instagram.

I think that people who are happy to accept their church leader's explanation of things are less likely to engage in discourse than those who like to think about and analyse their beliefs. As a result, if you assume that (and I'm plucking numbers out of the air here) 50% of atheists will engage in discussions online, and 20% of Christians will engage in discussions online, then you're going to get a disproportionate number of each group engaging in discussions, relative to society.

It's also worth noting that developing nations are picking up religion more these days - there's been a huge growth in Christianity in China in the last decade.

Сообщение от Ksero

Сообщение от Gone

Sorry Ryja, I fail to see where I said anything false, I said religion was on the decline, which means there are less people then before who believe in it, I posted an example which supported my hypothesis, and I know there is much more supporting information out there, but as with our debate on evolution I have a feeling there will never be enough data for you to give any credence to what I said. If you refuse to accept observationally collected data then I have no reason to talk to you.

Religion has been a part of human history for thousands of years. There are billions of people on the planet. You linked an example of a country containing less than 8% of the worlds population. For one, you picked too small of a sample, concentrated in only a single area. The fact that religion is on the decline in the UK doesn't mean it's on the decline everywhere. As Squish mentioned Christianity is on the rise in China, Africa, and South America. Islam is also on the rise in eastern Europe and parts of the United States.

Your second error is that you seem to be mistaking a rise in secularism over a short span of years, with the decline of religion on a whole for the entire planet. As MyTie mentioned these things go in cycles. Religious affiliation has waned and waxed throughout human history. The fact that there is a slight downturn in certain parts of the western world over the past decade, does not mean that overall religion is on the decline.

Organized Religion, the Bible and the Will of God

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